Chinese Heritage... The way forward...

[emery7columna]

Have you forgotten that China is still a Communist Country? I have very few things made in China. I would never buy a Chinese guitar. I don't even like Chinese tubes in my amps! I don't support Communists, I play guitars made in America.

[cosmikdebriis]

Have you forgotten that China is still a Communist Country? I have very few things made in China. I would never buy a Chinese guitar. I don't even like Chinese tubes in my amps! I don't support Communists, I play guitars made in America.

 

"Gets on Soap Box"

 

China is indeed a communist country but both your and my (English) governments are only too keen to make deals with them. Indeed China now "owns" a sizeable stake in both our countries.

 

As for the people making the guitars, they are just ordinary people like you and me, with families to feed. ???

 

Taking a "Only buy American" (or wherever) or anti communist stance is very difficult. A quick look around most of our homes will almost certainly reveal very many Chinese products and delve a bit deeper in to many American companies and I've no doubt you will find Chinese investment/involvement in one shape or another.

 

Like it or not, for better or worse. The world does not, can not and very probably will never, operate in that way. We are inexorably intertwined.

 

Buisiness and money rule the modern world. Nationalism, politics, and religion are just a sideshow, a handy distraction to cover up what the people who really rule the world are up to.

 

"Gets off Soap Box"

[pro-fusion]

China is still nominally a communist country, but in reality they are more akin to a fascist system now, where the private enterprise exists but is directed by an autocratic government.  And like communist systems, fascist economics ultimately fail because government-driven business decisions are distorted for political purposes and end in corruption and massive failure.  This is reason #1 why the U.S. government should stay out of the automobile business.  They can't even run bureaucracies competently, let alone an actual business.

[les paulverizer]

"Gets on Soap Box"

 

China is indeed a communist country but both your and my (English) governments are only too keen to make deals with them. Indeed China now "owns" a sizeable stake in both our countries.

 

As for the people making the guitars, they are just ordinary people like you and me, with families to feed. ???

 

Taking a "Only buy American" (or wherever) or anti communist stance is very difficult. A quick look around most of our homes will almost certainly reveal very many Chinese products and delve a bit deeper in to many American companies and I've no doubt you will find Chinese investment/involvement in one shape or another.

 

Like it or not, for better or worse. The world does not, can not and very probably will never, operate in that way. We are inexorably intertwined.

 

Buisiness and money rule the modern world. Nationalism, politics, and religion are just a sideshow, a handy distraction to cover up what the people who really rule the world are up to.

 

"Gets off Soap Box"

 

I can see your point and, in a way, you're right....but (or shall we say "howeva'"...!).

So far the only guitars worth playin' for me, and I mean take to a serious professional gig or recordin', are American made, apart from the occasional handmadebysomeincredibleluthierinthemiddleofnowhere, and some of these axes were made in Japan, Germany, Italy, Australia and England (yes Cosmik, ya have some very fine indipendent luthiers over there, like Gordon-Smith and other people whose name I forgot, sorry!). 8)

Generally speaking you can't beat American made instruments, the only exception being, in my experience, Fender Japan Strats and Japanese Yamaha's, and some Japanese Ibanez's if you're into that sort of thing, which I ain't.

The point is that electric guitar as we know it, and as we'll a-l-w-a-y-s know it, is an American product that originated with American culture and music (which is a fundamental part of any culture anyway; R'n'Roll, Blues, Jazz and all their variables ARE to be considered legit Folk music, I think).

Also, every Far (or Near...) Eastern guitar I've e-v-e-r played, no matter how good, invariably always had something missing, either in terms of quality, sounds, or both.

I'm pretty sure that if someone like Gibson shipped their American wood, hardware and electric's to Korea and all the people there had to do was to assemble it, they'd be able to do a great job and end up with the same American guitar we now buy from Gibson (or any brand) but the thing is that it's never goin' to happen, and it wouldn't make sense anyway...

If then we're talkin' about whether it's good or not to support certain economies, that's a different subject which I don't wanna tackle right now, but I totally understand certain reasonings. Period.

Nothing, and I mean n-o-t-h-i-n-g(!) can be compared to a PRS, Hamer, Taylor, Heritage, Gibson or Fender, specially if they're Custom Shop's.

Let's not even talk about stuff like Collings, DeTemple's and the likes...!

[cosmikdebriis]

My comments were mostly aimed at the "Buy (insert your preferred country here)" brigade. It's such a difficult position to defend.

 

Personally I'd like all nations to communicate, without prejudice. Music of course would be a great way to build communication as it is indeed the universal language. Unfortunately business, or perhaps I mean finance, is leading the way in cross country communication. And thse guys are more corrupt than the politicians and religious zealots

 

Meanwhile... Your average "citizen" (or in my case "subject" Grrr...) Just wants to get on with their lives with as little fuss as possible ???

 

Good luck to luthiers from all around the world. And most respect to those who do it for the love of their work, amongst whom, Heritage can stand proud... Oh... and some English ones too :wink:

 

That's an interesting point too about Jazz, Blues, rock music being an American export. Of course it's true, but worth remembering that, depending on your point in history... Those forms of music are rooted in the slave trade amongst black people. Not so many years ago those people were considered far from "Americans".

 

Please understand I'm not trying to take the moral high ground for me or my country. What makes one American or English (or wherever) can so often depend on "when" you choose to place your nationalism.

 

Rock music is just as American as curry is now English :wink:

[les paulverizer]

That's an interesting point too about Jazz, Blues, rock music being an American export. Of course it's true, but worth remembering that, depending on your point in history... Those forms of music are rooted in the slave trade amongst black people. Not so many years ago those people were considered far from "Americans".

 

It's true that Blues and its spin off's Jazz & Rock are rooted in in the slave trade but don't underestimate the part that European Music and instruments "played" in the formation of it.

Native African Music is, in most cases, microtonal whereas European music is well tempered and so are the instruments.

When those poor guys were brought to America (but don't forget that slave trade has been practiced by nearly every nation since the birth of mankind, and even regularly within the African continent itself!) they brought their music and traditions along but had to face a completely different environment which was, in a way, kinda established already, with its traditions, music and instruments, both of the "well tempered" kind!

Also, don't tell me that those guys didn't somehow influence each other; we all know, specially on this forum, that musicians are musicians wherever they're from, and I can just visualize some African musician hearing some of that European stuff and diggin' it and vice versa.

Moreover, when those slaves felt like makin' music they either had to build their own instruments or just grab what was available but, comin' from a microtonal tradition they had to somehow get those extra notes unavailable on well tempered instrument, hence the birth of the string bending and of two adjacent keys on the keyboard, both techniques completely unheard of before then!

If you listen carefully there's a heckofalot of British Isles Folk in the original Blues, it's subtle but it's there!

Also, one has only to listen to original native African Music to hear just how far they took the whole thing, but then again one can also hear the connection, and that connection was made in America. Pure and simple.

A perfect example is some 40's and 50's recordings by Muddy Waters; when he plays slide (thank God he did!) on slow sad tunes he goes slighlty flat whereas on fast happy ones he goes slightly sharp, makin' full use of those microtones that came so natural to him; at the same time he's not that far removed from some Folk or Country musicians.

Rory Gallagher, and I haven't heard a great deal of him I must admit, freely went from trad Blues to Irish influenced stuff without havin' to travel a great distance, the two bein' in some ways pretty close.

After all, I know a lot of musicians who dig Blues, Jazz, some kinda Country, and Rock in equal measure, maybe simply cuz they just subconsciously feel the relation between 'em.

I guess I'm not alone then... 8)