59s vs Seth Lovers

[fxdi35rider]

Kuz, which model throbaks do you have? I was recommended jw-102b, pg-102 with an unflipped magnet or sle-102.

 

 

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[LittleLeroy]

 

 

With my new prospect (w/seths) I'm finding just the opposite.The bridge sounds good but the neck pup is muddy. Maybe it has to do with the amp settings. If it was set to make the neck pup brighter then the bridge would be to bright. What a dilemma. lol

 

Hey CJ! My 535 came with a unique device - not sure yours has it - known as a "Tone Control". ;-) In fact, one for each pickup. I find them to be very useful. See if your dealer can retrofit these on your instrument. Mine totally eliminates the "too bright bridge pickup" complaint.

 

I'd much rather have a pup that's "too bright" with a tone control to tame it, than a muddy pickup whether neck or bridge. But that's just my 2¢.

[Kuz]

Kuz, which model throbaks do you have? I was recommended jw-102b, pg-102 with an unflipped magnet or sle-102.

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In my 555, I have the pups that were recommended to you the PGs without the magnet flip.

[Kuz]

Hey CJ! My 535 came with a unique device - not sure yours has it - known as a "Tone Control". ;-) In fact, one for each pickup. I find them to be very useful. See if your dealer can retrofit these on your instrument. Mine totally eliminates the "too bright bridge pickup" complaint.

 

I'd much rather have a pup that's "too bright" with a tone control to tame it, than a muddy pickup whether neck or bridge. But that's just my 2¢.

LOL. I get the tone control argument but it is not just the brightness from the SL bridge but the fact the brightness comes from the SL bridge having A2 magnets that could use a little more power to boost the mids & lows. I LOVE A2s and most of my guitars have A2 humbuckers without the SL bridge brightness. The SL bridge is just slightly underpowered and too bright for my taste even with the tone rolled off.

 

But your version my vary..

[LittleLeroy]

LOL. I get the tone control argument but it is not just the brightness from the SL bridge but the fact the brightness comes from the SL bridge having A2 magnets that could use a little more power to boost the mids & lows. I LOVE A2s and most of my guitars have A2 humbuckers without the SL bridge brightness. The SL bridge is just slightly underpowered and too bright for my taste even with the tone rolled off.

 

But your version my vary..

 

I hear you and you're right: I'm probably not the guy to talk about too bright pups. I perform with my amp's speaker facing backwards. Or angled into the wall on the side of the stage. And my tone controls are typically around 7.5. And I build my own amps designed so I can bump up the mids a lot when necessary. On top of this dog's breakfast, I *lower* my bridge pup so it's considerably softer than neck pup and my middle position has more plonk than bite.

Hey! There's no accounting for taste, right?

[mad dog]

My experience with Duncan 59s was not in Heritage guitars. Had them in a Guild Bluesbird and a Guild X-500 archtop. Tried to like them, but could not. A little too hard ass, a little flat sounding, not quite the warm, resonant sound I appreciate. Probably reacting most to the was potting. My guess is that for hard rocking, the 59s are perfect. I play more bluesy stuff, go for something a little softer.

 

The Seth Lovers are a different story. Recently I found a used Epiphone elitist '63 ES-335. MIJ, very high quality, probably right up there with the H535. It came stock with the Epi Japan version of the 57 classic p/us. Not bad. I wanted to hear Seth Lovers, so found a pair and swapped. Huge difference. The Seths have all the dynamics and warmth I didn't find in 59s. Warm, but can really sting with volume. In that guitar, just about perfect. They would probably work just as well in the H535.

MD

[CJTopes]

 

Hey CJ! My 535 came with a unique device - not sure yours has it - known as a "Tone Control". ;-) In fact, one for each pickup. I find them to be very useful. See if your dealer can retrofit these on your instrument. Mine totally eliminates the "too bright bridge pickup" complaint.

 

I'd much rather have a pup that's "too bright" with a tone control to tame it, than a muddy pickup whether neck or bridge. But that's just my 2¢.

I'm well aware of what tone controls are. I use them more than most players.

[JeffB]

I thought the Seth Lovers in my H150 were the most wonderful pickups. I couldnt stop extolling their virtues to any one who would listen.

Then I discovered they were 59's.

It has Antiquities in their right now. I dont like them as much as the 59's.

[Kuz]

 

 

With my new prospect (w/seths) I'm finding just the opposite.The bridge sounds good but the neck pup is muddy. Maybe it has to do with the amp settings. If it was set to make the neck pup brighter then the bridge would be to bright. What a dilemma. lol

 

I know you know how to set your amp and how to use your tone controls on your guitar.

And I completely agree it is never a perfect balance from neck to the bridge pup. I spend most of my time during the week, tweaking my pedals & amp setting to match which guitar/guitars I am going to play on Sunday. The setting are different for each guitar. I also try to find the compromise of the amp/pedals setting for the "middle position" on the guitar because I use all three (neck, middle, & bridge) pickups. If I dial in the setting for the "middle position", then all three pickup selections will be usable with only minor adjustments of the volume or tone knobs on the guitar. Luckily, I am so familiar with the tone of sanctuary (it is actually a dark sounding "room") that I know to add a little more highend to over compensate for how it sounds at my home.

[LittleLeroy]

I'm well aware of what tone controls are. I use them more than most players.

Sorry CJ! I will avoid such sarcasm in future.

[pressure]

I never liked any bridge pickup on any guitar (Fenders, Hamers, Steinberg's or Heritage's) until I played the Gold Top I recently bought from Kuz. It has Throbacs and the bridge is beautifully​ mellow, very bell like and not screachy bright nomatter where the tone nob is set. Thanks for that John.

[Kuz]

I never liked any bridge pickup on any guitar (Fenders, Hamers, Steinberg's or Heritage's) until I played the Gold Top I recently bought from Kuz. It has Throbacs and the bridge is beautifully​ mellow, very bell like and not screachy bright nomatter where the tone nob is set. Thanks for that John.

Well Richard, that is a great guitar with great pickups.

[skydog]

If you really want a comparison, the only real way is to eliminate all variables except the pickups. Same guitar, same amp, same settings. Then record each "version" for playback as time will fade your memory.

[RhoadsScholar]

I prefer 59's over seth lovers (always wondered if they were just the same pickup with the SD59's being potted.

 

I think 59's would get more respect if they were more expensive and considered boutique. Even in Hollow bodies and semi-hollow bodies, I like them for the fact that they feed back less. I don't notice the more aggressive sound others have described (probably attributed from too much hearing loss in the 70's but at present, I have 59's in a Super Eagle (it came that way and no need to change). Give the 59's a chance before you start changing them out and use your tone and volume knobs (not just the tone knob) to try and dial in the tone you chase. Good luck on your quest. I have 59's in my 535 and wouldn't change a thing.

[JeffB]

I prefer 59's over seth lovers (always wondered if they were just the same pickup with the SD59's being potted.

 

I think 59's would get more respect if they were more expensive and considered boutique. Even in Hollow bodies and semi-hollow bodies, I like them for the fact that they feed back less. I don't notice the more aggressive sound others have described (probably attributed from too much hearing loss in the 70's but at present, I have 59's in a Super Eagle (it came that way and no need to change). Give the 59's a chance before you start changing them out and use your tone and volume knobs (not just the tone knob) to try and dial in the tone you chase. Good luck on your quest. I have 59's in my 535 and wouldn't change a thing.

Neither do I. I think theyre quite a well behaved pickup with a nice smoothness and evenness.

Seths actually seem to be a bit fizzy and ruder to me

[LittleLeroy]

I prefer 59's over seth lovers (always wondered if they were just the same pickup with the SD59's being potted.

 

I think 59's would get more respect if they were more expensive and considered boutique. Even in Hollow bodies and semi-hollow bodies, I like them for the fact that they feed back less. I don't notice the more aggressive sound others have described (probably attributed from too much hearing loss in the 70's but at present, I have 59's in a Super Eagle (it came that way and no need to change). Give the 59's a chance before you start changing them out and use your tone and volume knobs (not just the tone knob) to try and dial in the tone you chase. Good luck on your quest. I have 59's in my 535 and wouldn't change a thing.

Thanks for your post. I am "negotiating" with a British ex-pat at Mr. Wolfe's for a Cherry 535 with a 59 in the neck. If we come to a successful conclusion I'll of course try the guitar as-is before fooling with the pickups. Who knows? I may end up putting a 59 in the bridge, too.

 

Based on the info on the Duncan site, I had concluded that, as you surmise, the 59 is a potted SL. I'm hoping that's exactly what it is.

[AP515]

...Based on the info on the Duncan site, I had concluded that, as you surmise, the 59 is a potted SL. I'm hoping that's exactly what it is.

That may be what it turns out to be for all practical purposes, but I believe the 59's came out before the Seth's. I could be wrong, but that is the way I experienced them. What I don't understand it the difference between Seth's and Antiquities. Both unspotted, both PAF's. Other than a patina on the covers, what's the difference?

[CJTopes]

Sorry CJ! I will avoid such sarcasm in future.

No problem...

[Kuz]

Neither do I. I think theyre quite a well behaved pickup with a nice smoothness and evenness.

Seths actually seem to be a bit fizzy and ruder to me

Maybe that fizzy & rudeness is what I am describing as biting & harsher?

 

Let's face it, the individual tones we like difficult to describe and also highly subjective.

 

For example, I can't listen to Johnny Winter or Rory Gallgher because their tone is SO piercing & strident (literally I cringe and can't listen to one song by JW or RG). But Joe Walsh's tone, even his slide tone, is tone I could listen to everyday, all day!!!

[AP515]

...But Joe Walsh's tone, even his slide tone, is tone I could listen to everyday, all day!!!

Joe is consistently tasty. He may be a silly guy and below average singer, but man do I like his phrasing.

[bolero]

Joe Walsh is THE MAN

 

I agree on Johnny Winter and Rory ( to a lesser extent ) having bright, piercing, irritating sounds

 

( I liked Johnny more before he started using that phaser/chorus and Erlewine/Lazer thing though )

 

I had SD 59's in a 535 and did not care for them

 

however I had a SD '59 in the bridge of an H150 and goddamn if that wasn't a fine pickup. Unfortunately I sold the gtr to DB and who knows where it is now??

 

I should have kept that bridge 59 pup. it was an older one

 

....that said, I really like the Seths in my H155

 

although the Wolfetone Legends in my H150 demolish both the Seth and the '59

[Yooper]

Seths have more A2 midrange punch with unpotted microphonics and highs in the mix. Not everyone's favorite, but they have that full sweetness too. Great for Classic rock and Jazz.

 

I would still use '59s for a louder rock band. They rock.

[LittleLeroy]

Maybe that fizzy & rudeness is what I am describing as biting & harsher?

 

Let's face it, the individual tones we like difficult to describe and also highly subjective.

 

For example, I can't listen to Johnny Winter or Rory Gallgher because their tone is SO piercing & strident (literally I cringe and can't listen to one song by JW or RG). But Joe Walsh's tone, even his slide tone, is tone I could listen to everyday, all day!!!

 

Hi Kuz. I would surmise you din't spend enough time in front of a Marshall stack in the 70's if your hearing is still good enough to think JW's tone is piercing and strident!

[Kuz]

 

Hi Kuz. I would surmise you din't spend enough time in front of a Marshall stack in the 70's if your hearing is still good enough to think JW's tone is piercing and strident!

You really think Johnny Winter's tone was warm & inviting? JW's tone was brighter than Albert Collins The Iceman!!! If you don't think Johnny Winter's tone was bright, then we will have to just cordially agree to disagree on tone (I have yet to hear anyone say that JW tone wasn't way too bright). But it is all good, we all have our own opinions. That's what is nice around hear we all have our own thoughts & differences.

[LittleLeroy]

You really think Johnny Winter's tone was warm & inviting? JW's tone was brighter than Albert Collins The Iceman!!! If you don't think Johnny Winter's tone was bright, then we will have to just cordially agree to disagree on tone (I have yet to hear anyone say that JW tone wasn't way too bright). But it is all good, we all have our own opinions. That's what is nice around hear we all have our own thoughts & differences.

I used to see JW and Edgar live at the Kinetic Playground in Chicago 'round 69 or so. Never had a problem with his tone. Wonderful slide work, too. Never saw AC live. The worst tone I've ever experienced was David Gilmour live at the Auditorium Theatre in Chicago. Crazy loud and fizzy. It was painful.

 

But my post is about all that stuff around 3 - 4kHz that i really don't hear past my tinnitus.