deytookerjaabs Posted May 14, 2017 Posted May 14, 2017 I used to see more Heritage guitars in shops (used) in the early 00's. When I sold mine a decade ago I always figured it was never a big deal to get a smokin' price on a used one again. But, nooooooooo. Sure, there's some on Reverb/Ebay but even though Heritage is small by comparison to the big boys I just think there's a lot fewer for sale used than common sense would dictate whether online or through so many shops across the country. Speaks volumes to the brand. Now please...CUT IT OUT!
pro-fusion Posted May 14, 2017 Posted May 14, 2017 LOL I know what you mean! Here's what I attribute it to: the rising price of new Heritages and (not entirely coincidental) rise in the prices for used ones. Even just a decade ago, a guy could have fun buying, trying and selling Heritages without having to take out a second mortgage. Now, though, those of us who have Heritages we prize would NEVER think of selling them, since getting another one means spending a ton of money. I paid $1900 for my "new" floor-stock 157 back in 2008, and it's still the most money I've ever spent on a guitar. I simply have no way to pay $3000 to get a new 157 should I ever need to replace it, and the increasing prevalence of $1500+ used Heritages means I can't afford to play around with guitars like a 137 that might be fun but not totally necessary for me. Thus, my 157 and Millie DC aren't going anywhere. Ever. I get that these things happen, but that's really the answer to your question.
tonedeaf Posted May 15, 2017 Posted May 15, 2017 real fans HOARD! ...and I am one of the worst offenders. ...and I have no sense of shame.
FredZepp Posted May 15, 2017 Posted May 15, 2017 Only 8 Heritages currently... but a nice variety of them anyhow. 1986 VIP-1 .. single pickup. great vibrato set up, a rocker. 1988 Parsons Street ... Gumby headstock, plays great, comfortable design, unique 1988 H-150CM.. 1st year 150 with Gibby cutaway and monster top. 1989 H-140 CM .. .. great condition, plays great, sounds great . 1992 H-150... my first Heritage, super flame top, fast neck, great tone. 1994 H-157... a black beauty that has Sheptones and versatile wiring, looks sharp and great neck. 1999 Eagle Centurion.. massive and stunning instrument to see, a show stopper, 2013 Prospect in Antique Wineburst.. shows the quality instruments still coming out of Kalamazoo today... beautifully made and inspiring to play. A lot to enjoy from the good folks at Parsons Street.... The good stuff.. !
ElNumero Posted May 15, 2017 Posted May 15, 2017 And the fact that there are fewer to be seen has caused used prices to climb. 5 years ago you could score a used 535 for $1300-$1400. Now sellers are demanding $1900+ for a 16 year old 535! WTF!
Gitfiddler Posted May 15, 2017 Posted May 15, 2017 All due respect to Deytookerjaabs, I think the title of this thread should be changed to "You Heritage Owners are appreciating your stock". We are appreciating, playing, enjoying, admiring and maybe coveting our beloved Heritage guitars. Most HOC'ers are simply early adopters of the brand, and understand the history. If one checks around, there are plenty to be found on the web...but as the name and reputation has gotten better known, prices have risen on the used market.
deytookerjaabs Posted May 15, 2017 Author Posted May 15, 2017 Appreciating, hoarding, not letting go, arrgh! Really, they used to be my "blue collar diamonds" always keeping my eyes peeled for one locally at times. Now they're getting bought at what they're worth, haha. My first H-150 was a beautiful flame top 'burst '89 and I bought maybe in '03 for $500 (down from asking $650), not long after I got an almond burst H-550 for $750. Yeah, shoulda kept'em bla bla bla. I'll find another one, somewhere, thrill of the hunt!
Millennium Maestro Posted May 15, 2017 Posted May 15, 2017 And the fact that there are fewer to be seen has caused used prices to climb. 5 years ago you could score a used 535 for $1300-$1400. Now sellers are demanding $1900+ for a 16 year old 535! WTF! BULLSHIT
deytookerjaabs Posted May 15, 2017 Author Posted May 15, 2017 BULLSHIT There's a shop here with a normal 90's almond H535 asking @2200, no joke. In fact, it's the only local used one I know of in store.
Spectrum13 Posted May 15, 2017 Posted May 15, 2017 There's a shop here with a normal 90's almond H535 asking @2200, no joke. In fact, it's the only local used one I know of in store. Current issue of Vintage Guitar shows a 1992 H-535 (Flamed maple top) low $ 1,450 - high $1,900 in their price guide.
Millennium Maestro Posted May 15, 2017 Posted May 15, 2017 There's a shop here with a normal 90's almond H535 asking @2200, no joke. In fact, it's the only local used one I know of in store. I was not calling BS on the price... But on the reasoning for resale price increases.
Spectrum13 Posted May 15, 2017 Posted May 15, 2017 I was not calling BS on the price... But on the reasoning for resale price increases. Guy, so not supply and demand... What would you attribute this increase too? Guess... #1 increased consumer awareness through internet forums. ( increased demand?) # 2 Gibson pricing and value as compared to heritage # 3 Inflation # 4 Gibson marketing practice # 5 Heritage new marketing (updated website - new artists - Frankie - new advertising new owners - new retailers)
DetroitBlues Posted May 15, 2017 Posted May 15, 2017 There is plenty of stock on Reverb now they take less fees then eBay. But eBay shows you recently sold and if Reverb would show that, we'd see Heritages are not selling at the prices people are asking for. A member here recently dropped the price on his red H-127. Rare, interesting model. With the rate he dropped his, I think it will sell (sub $1000 mark). Some are trying to sell their for the same or more then they spent when they were new. Just because some is asking $1900 for a 535 doesn't mean anyone is paying $1900. Most likely the actual sale price is more in line with what we are used to seeing. No one wants to lose money on the sale of a guitar (I know that all too well as I haven't made money on a guitar in years!), but when buying new, you'll never get your full money back. Not even 2/3 of it. Oddly enough, a YouTube channel I follow, KnowYourGear, talks about a similar subject. He mentions that people buy USA Made Fenders over Mexican made guitars because they are a better value. But are they? He says most USA Fenders resale for about 50% of their new cost. But most MIM or Korean sell upwards of 75% of their new price. So what does that mean to Heritage? Well... If a new 535 costs $3000, the most you'd expect on the used market is $1500. Granted, these guys are trying not to lose money to auction house fees, so the used price of $1900 and up is their attempt to offset the fees and make a little profit as well. I'm sure many of you remember that Guitar Center had a used gear policy of only paying about 50% of what they'd sell and instrument for.... So if you traded your guitar in after paying $3000, you'd only expect maybe $750. OUCH. I like this forum for buy/sell/trade. Most of us offer really good deals, even though there are a handful that try to exploit us (its not a bad thing, addicts are willing to pay top dollar to feed their needs). This is a better medium to buy/sell versus Reverb, eBay, Craigslist, etc... By the way, Norms Rare Guitars has a beautiful H150 for $1195. Very, very reasonable price. http://www.normansrareguitars.com/product.php?productid=5274&cat=&page=1
tsp17 Posted May 15, 2017 Posted May 15, 2017 There is plenty of stock on Reverb now they take less fees then eBay. But eBay shows you recently sold and if Reverb would show that, we'd see Heritages are not selling at the prices people are asking for. A member here recently dropped the price on his red H-127. Rare, interesting model. With the rate he dropped his, I think it will sell (sub $1000 mark). Some are trying to sell their for the same or more then they spent when they were new. Just because some is asking $1900 for a 535 doesn't mean anyone is paying $1900. Most likely the actual sale price is more in line with what we are used to seeing. No one wants to lose money on the sale of a guitar (I know that all too well as I haven't made money on a guitar in years!), but when buying new, you'll never get your full money back. Not even 2/3 of it. Oddly enough, a YouTube channel I follow, KnowYourGear, talks about a similar subject. He mentions that people buy USA Made Fenders over Mexican made guitars because they are a better value. But are they? He says most USA Fenders resale for about 50% of their new cost. But most MIM or Korean sell upwards of 75% of their new price. So what does that mean to Heritage? Well... If a new 535 costs $3000, the most you'd expect on the used market is $1500. Granted, these guys are trying not to lose money to auction house fees, so the used price of $1900 and up is their attempt to offset the fees and make a little profit as well. I'm sure many of you remember that Guitar Center had a used gear policy of only paying about 50% of what they'd sell and instrument for.... So if you traded your guitar in after paying $3000, you'd only expect maybe $750. OUCH. I like this forum for buy/sell/trade. Most of us offer really good deals, even though there are a handful that try to exploit us (its not a bad thing, addicts are willing to pay top dollar to feed their needs). This is a better medium to buy/sell versus Reverb, eBay, Craigslist, etc... By the way, Norms Rare Guitars has a beautiful H150 for $1195. Very, very reasonable price. http://www.normansrareguitars.com/product.php?productid=5274&cat=&page=1 Great post DB.
ElNumero Posted May 15, 2017 Posted May 15, 2017 I was not calling BS on the price... But on the reasoning for resale Well, what then?
deytookerjaabs Posted May 15, 2017 Author Posted May 15, 2017 The whole market of boutique/vintage has been centered around the free advertising ask for the moon first for many shops for a while now. The big box stores and some other used dealers still want sales velocity but for the most part the waiting game is something else. Just being a full time teacher/gigger/student of music I've always sort of felt the best thing for me is to pay what I feel I could sell the guitar for if I needed to sell it within the week. Sometimes stuff happens and it helps if you can move it quick, get your money back, and take care of any other finance issues that might arise. That said, I'm not the kind of guy to go around offering people 50%, haha. The H535 at the shop that was $2200 I didn't even bother to say anything, there's a dealer moving them for a little more than that new on the other side of town.
ElNumero Posted May 15, 2017 Posted May 15, 2017 Guy, so not supply and demand... What would you attribute this increase too? Guess... #1 increased consumer awareness through internet forums. ( increased demand?) # 2 Gibson pricing and value as compared to heritage # 3 Inflation # 4 Gibson marketing practice # 5 Heritage new marketing (updated website - new artists - Frankie - new advertising new owners - new retailers)
bolero Posted May 16, 2017 Posted May 16, 2017 I think 1. new Heritage prices have gone up, pushing up used prices too 2. the general public is now more aware that these are top quality guitars and possibly 3. the "ugly headstock" stigma has faded, as many other high end guitars in the vein of "Les Paul" also have non-traditional ( ie: Gibson style ) headstocks. People are more used to seeing different headstocks on a LP body now, on high end guitars. In the past that was associated with all the cheap LP copies
Millennium Maestro Posted May 16, 2017 Posted May 16, 2017 And the fact that there are fewer to be seen has caused used prices to climb. I CAN SEE THIS LEADING TO PRICES INCREASING 5 years ago you could score a used 535 for $1300-$1400. WE WERE IN A TERRIBLE RESALE MARKET, SELLERS GOT ABUSED AND BUYERS GOT SPOILED Now sellers are demanding $1900+ for a 16 year old 535! ... SELLERS CAN ASK, I DON'T REALLY SEE ANYTHING SELLING...
Millennium Maestro Posted May 16, 2017 Posted May 16, 2017 The future I see from rubbing my crystal balls is that The corporate Heritage with their additional employees, pro active marketing and larger presence in the guitar industry will lead to higher brand recognition, demand and increased prices. We are already seeing that any deviation from production standards reflect in increased buyer expenses.
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