What new 12ax7's are decent?

[Hfan]

Anyone buy any new ones lately? It's been a while but I think last time I went with Electro Harmonix which worked out ok.

 

While we're at it what about power tubes. Are JJ's still considered good?

 

I realize that there are only a few manufacturers so probably not much difference in the brands anyway.

[pressure]

Mesa has an extra low noise 12ax7. I don't know how good it sounds.

[LK155]

Couple of years ago I built a Trinity Tramp amp kit.

It's a little 2-tube amp that came with a JJ 6V6 and a JJ 12AX7. Sounded OK, but.............

After reading multiple 'best tube' posts on the Trinity forum, I bought a Winged "C" 6L6 and a Tung-Sol 12AX7. Neither was particularly cheap.

The difference was astounding. Unfortunately, I can't tell you how much of the improvement came from the 6L6 (certainly a great improvement in clean headroom) and how much came from the 12AX7.

But in that little amp, a dynamite combination.

[Hfan]

Thanks, the Tung-Sols appear to be about the same price as the Electro Harmonix.

[Kuz]

If you have to go with new pre-amp tubes (which in my opinion always will make a more dramatic difference in tone over power tubes), I would go Tung-Sol 12AX7s over any other new tube.

 

With that said $30-40 for NOS (or slightly used) RCA 12AX7 will last you for like 20 years and you will get the best tone available ... In my opinion.

[RJLII]

A local amp tech suggested the JJ ECC83S (12AX7).

 

From the Tube Depot: "These tubes are immediately discernible from other 12AX7. They have a construction that is similar to a frame-grid tube - similar to the Telefunken ECC803s. This construction makes them very rugged and reliable. This is one of the best new 12AX7 for any guitar amp. It is very musical - rich with great harmonics."

 

He likes them because they're very quiet and great for use as V1. I installed them in my Regal and my Rambler and have zero complaints. At $10 you can't go wrong.

[DLDTEX]

I second JJ is a good sounding and reliable 12AX7 preamp tube.

 

 

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[Gitfiddler]

I've found new production 12AX7's vary from tube to tube, no matter the brand. Some are microphonic, others sound just OK, while a few are great right out of the box.

 

The best investment seems to be quality NOS tubes. Most of us don't want to go that route due to the high per-tube cost.

[JeffB]

Mesa has an extra low noise 12ax7. I don't know how good it sounds.

spax7?

I liked them for a while in a couple of mesa's but not in my fender concert II.

Cant remember properly but I dont think I liked them in my Bad Cat and from a similarly vague recall I think I liked them in an Egnater TM4100.

Theyre clean but gainy!?!?! Sterile sounding and hard feeling in the fender. Quiet in the mesa's.

I still have a few in the bucket I keep tubes in. I will probably never use them unless I by another gain channel amp.

JJ's are ok. Tung-sols seem to be good. They all seem quite similar to me.

I have a stash of older tubes, some NOS and some just old but with little use. They dont really sound different to the new (good) ones. But they seem to last much longer, like forever.

But to offer a counter point to that statement, some of the older and NOS tubes I have bought havnt really worked for me sound or feel wise or have died in a short space of time.

The 81-82 concert still has a couple of original fender stamped GE or RCA tubes in it. Thats good mileage considering the hammering that amps taken over the years.

[greatmutah2112]

I run CV4004s in my Metropoulos Metroplex and dig those a bit.

[212Mavguy]

I was pleasantly surprised at how decent the new Tung Sols sounded in my 90's vintage Harry Joyce Custom 30 head when it first arrived. But it sounded better after I yanked them and socketed in a mix of old stock US and Euro preamp tubes. There was very little difference in sound or feel between EH el34's and the real, old stock Mullards, or RFT/Siemens, that hugely surprised me.

 

Certain old stock tubes can be had for not much more than new production. Others go for stupid huge money and don't deliver the $$ in the tones.

 

If you have an amp that runs a 12at7 phase inverter, it's easy and cheap to get a better sounding moderately used old stock tube. Every tone goes through that tube, an improvement there is cost effective.

 

Look for vintage 5751's instead of what is the "best" new production 12ax7's in the value department, the difference in gain when playing between either type is no biggie while the improvement in tonal quality is...with greater longevity also offered by the old builds..

 

Don't balk at the difference in price between old stock and new production. The difference in $$ over a couple thousand hours of operation makes Scrooge-ish decisions look dumb, unless you have bad ears or a deaf audience. Explore!

[tsp17]

Mesa has an extra low noise 12ax7. I don't know how good it sounds.

I use it... It sounds good.

[tbonesullivan]

If you have the $$$$, a few old production tubes, either NOS or Test-as-New pulls can be great.

[HANGAR18]

I was under the impression that only the big tubes influenced tone on an amp and that the little tubes made no difference at all (for tone). I think I read that on the Internet somewhere so I assumed it was true. Everyone always talks about their 6L6's and their EL34's and so on but I rarely hear anyone talk about the little tubes and so that would be another reason why I equated that information to be true. So which is it?

[JeffB]

Both affect the sound and feel.

Buy the cheapest 6L6s and some nicer ones and have a play between them. There is a different feel, clipping over all sound at different volumes between them.

Do the same with preamp and pi tubes, you can tighten, loosen, reduce shrillness or flabby bottom end somewhat. Sweeten an already good sound.

Its fun and interesting for a while. Some amps you can notice differences with tube swaps and others you cant so much.

For me speaker change or cab change(or both) is a more dramatic change but tubes can get you where you want to go if the amp and speaker combo is pretty much where you want it and only need fine tuning.

I have a large container full of various tubes, I dont regard them as the best money I ever spent on guitar gear in the overall scheme of things.

[tbonesullivan]

I was under the impression that only the big tubes influenced tone on an amp and that the little tubes made no difference at all (for tone). I think I read that on the Internet somewhere so I assumed it was true. Everyone always talks about their 6L6's and their EL34's and so on but I rarely hear anyone talk about the little tubes and so that would be another reason why I equated that information to be true. So which is it?

 

Both are important. In high gain amplifiers, the preamp tubes are making the majority of the overdrive/clipping. The power tubes rarely get driven hard enough to go into clipping. Also things like noise, microphonics, saturation, etc are all more determined by your preamp tube choice. If you fill up the preamp tube slots with a bunch of Sovtek 12AX7WA tubes, your amp will not really sound optimal. Those tubes are very reliable, but their tone is pretty BLAH.

 

The first preamp tube slot is probably THE MOST important slot where you would want a quality tube. Preamp slots for things like Reverb drivers and tremolo drivers are not as important.

 

Other things to consider are tube locations that are "cathode follower" function tubes. For these, certain manufacturers' preamp tubes have issues due to the voltage differential between the heater filament and the cathode. It particularly seems to affect tubes from the Reflektor plant in Russia that have Spiral filaments, which are the Tung Sol reissue, the Sovtek 12AX7LPS, and the Mullard Long plate reissue.

[tbonesullivan]

Following up on this, I definitely recommend picking up some ANOS tested used old production tubes while they are still out there. They really do make a difference, and also last a ton longer than many of the new production tubes.

 

The Tube Depot has a pretty good comparison of various new production tubes:

 

https://www.tubedepot.com/tube-comparison-tool

 

This really helps you make an informed decision regarding tubes used, and also where to use them. Tubes that have high noise and microphonics are not suitable for the V1 and sometimes V2 slots, depending on the design of the amp. Some tubes also have a lot less headroom, which is good if you are using it on an overdrive channel, but not so much on a clean channel. This is one reason why the chinese tubes are popular in marshalls: they overdrive relatively easily.

[Gtwibs]

I recently put EHX in my orange and they've been solid.

[tbonesullivan]

I recently put EHX in my orange and they've been solid.

 

I've had really good luck with the EHX tubes. They are just a solid tube. Quiet, nice headroom, and I Think spiral filaments which cut down on noise. They are also relatively inexpensive. Why the crappy sovtek 12AX7WA's are more expensive on most websites, I have no idea.

 

Another GREAT tube is the Sovtek 12AX7LPS. They work awesome as phase inverter tubes, and also as input and gain stage tubes. The only issue is that they have really big plates, so they are much more susceptible to microphonics and vibrations.

[tbonesullivan]

Just an update: I've gotten a chance to mess around with the the new production tubes I got in the past week or so.

 

The one that has really wowed me is the Ruby 7025SS HG. This is a chinese 12AX7B, but the anodes are unplated, so they are shiny. It really does have a great sound, especially when over driven. I installed it into the V2 slot of my Carvin V3M, and the difference was quite good. It was replacing a JJ ECC83S, which made it sound a bit dark on the lead channels.

 

Next up are a Mullard 12AX7/ECC83 and CV4004/12AX7, which are the long plate and short plate Mullard reissues out of Russia. I will hopefully try some tonight.

[HANGAR18]

Just an update: I've gotten a chance to mess around with the the new production tubes I got in the past week or so.

 

The one that has really wowed me is the Ruby 7025SS HG. This is a chinese 12AX7B, but the anodes are unplated, so they are shiny. It really does have a great sound, especially when over driven. I installed it into the V2 slot of my Carvin V3M, and the difference was quite good. It was replacing a JJ ECC83S, which made it sound a bit dark on the lead channels.

 

Next up are a Mullard 12AX7/ECC83 and CV4004/12AX7, which are the long plate and short plate Mullard reissues out of Russia. I will hopefully try some tonight.

 

That is interesting about the Ruby's. I had never heard of them before until I found Ruby's installed stock from the factory in my 100w Archon head when I bought it new. At the time I figured that since I had never heard of them before that they must therefore suck and replaced the 6L6's with Mullard EL34's since that is what my last amp had. But the more I learn about amps and tubes, the more I realize that I don't know shit about amps and tubes so the Ruby's are probably pretty good. I still have all the little Ruby tubes in that amp.

[Gitfiddler]

Interesting info about Ruby tubes. One of the amp techs I used likes them and recommend Rubys for my Heritage Liberty. I declined and went with a pair of n.o.s. GE 6L6GC's.

 

As with most things, there are fans and detractors of the wide variety of tube brands.

 

There are so many variables to be considered, I find tube shopping a crap shoot.

[tbonesullivan]

Ruby, like Groove Tubes, TAD (Tube Amp Doctor), PM, Penta, etc, uses tubes from different sources. However I think most of their tubes are from the Shuguang Factory in china, while some are also from the Teslovak factory in the Czech republic that makes JJ tubes. Ruby however does additional testing, such as their HG and HG+ testing for microphonics and other issues. They also have been working with the factory in China to make some special issue tubes, like the Silver Special, as well as a mullard-style tube.

 

Right now a lot of the JJ tubes that Doug's Tubes sells are ruby branded.

[HANGAR18]

While we're talking about tubes, something my local Mesa dealer told me that I thought was interesting...

 

He described a single manufacturer whose name I don't recall as being the source for where Mesa gets their tubes. He said they ship Mesa a truckload of tubes. Mesa then tests each tube to see if it meets their specifications. The tubes which meets their specs, Mesa will paint their name on the tubes and package them. The tubes which Mesa does not want, get returned to the manufacturer who then tests the Mesa leftovers and paints and packages them for different commonly known brand names. He basically made it sound like the whole tube market consisted largely of tubes that Mesa didn't want. hahaha

[tbonesullivan]

For preamp tubes, I think that currently Mesa boogie exclusively uses tubes from the Teslovak plant in the Czech republic, which is the company that makes JJ tubes. And yes, they test them exhaustively for specs and microphonics.

 

For power tubes and rectifier tubes, they use ones from all three large factories I believe. It changes based on availability. They also may custom order some designs.