The Faber Bridge... Again

[Rod]

I recently installed a Faber bridge and tailpiece on my 2002 Goldtop, replacing the existing Tone Pros Specifically:

 

#5007 Master Kit, Consisting of a #3034 Bridge, #3012 Tailpiece, #3003 Tone Lock

#9001 Hybridge Option

#3117 INsert

 

It should be noted that the 5007 Master Kit is the metric option. The #3117 INsert (bridge studs) is what would typically be paired with the "inch" kit.

 

Installation is practically foolproof, and probably takes 10 minutes. Immediately noticeable is that the knurled body of the INsert bridge studs are about twice as long (depth into the wood) as the original. The fact that they're steel rather than "pot metal" might be significant. It's lighter, but on a 10# guitar I doubt anybody could tell.

 

The "Tone Lock" (the way the bridge fastens to the studs) is certainly mechanically superior to the Tone Pros. The way the tailpiece locks is also an improvement, though I'm sure the effect of the tailpiece on tone is much less than that of the bridge, if any. The aged nickel of this assembly matches the aging on the SD Antiquities very nicely. There is no argument that the Faber is mechanically superior.

 

So, does any of that a discernible difference in tone... to me? I'm certain that my ability to hear nuances in tone is less than that of many on here. I've come to respect the opinion of several on here, and some of those say they can hear a difference and I believe they can. Still, I didn't expect to hear any difference whatsoever. When I first installed it, I have to say I thought the thing sounded better. I'll throw out some guitar forum terms here. More "bell like" more clarity, perhaps more sustain. I also think my car runs better after I wash it, so factor that in. The comparison was week-old strings to new, so that wasn't the difference. There was about an hour between the before and after, so I'm not sure how well I even remembered. In a blindfold A-B type listening test I'd be pleasantly surprised if I could tell the difference, but maybe. A couple days later I wasn't thinking that there was any remarkable difference to before, but maybe.

 

To me, the tonal difference is very comparable to the difference between older and newer strings, if that. It looks better. it is mechanically superior, it makes it easier to change strings and you can clean around it without disturbing the setup. If I had wondered if a different bridge might possibly make a difference I no longer have to wonder, regardless of the result. Personally, I'll do another one or two at least. I just like 'em better. That's about as much justification as any of my other guitar related purchases get.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[golferwave]

LOL - Been there and done that. My ears don't pick up all as some on this forum do but I know the parts I like on my guitars. Just knowing you have a finely engineered bridge that is one of the best on the market is reward enough and you know it will give you a lifetime of trouble free service. Nuff said. Enjoy!

[Kuz]

Unlike my PLEK post where I said I only have guitars PLEK'd when the fret work needs it, I switch all my TOM bridged guitars to the Faber locking system.

 

Why? Below are the reasons in order of importance to me;

 

1) Superior locking system - the components will never move (unless I want them to) and the action on the guitar will never change, even with the strings all off.

2) Aesthetics - I really don't like the bulky look of Nashville bridges, but I even changed several ABR-1 bridges to Faber because of the superior locking system (and they resemble an ABR-1 bridge)

3) Tone - I honestly believe there is a 10-15% (approximately) tone difference. With all components locked tight, I believe there is an increase in sustain. I absolutely believe if you are adding an aluminium tailpiece to the guitar for the first time you will hear a more open, bell-like tone.

4) Superior (more vintage correct) materials metals- just better quality stuff over gotoh, tonepros, ect...

 

So bottom line (for me), if I had the choice at the time of a custom build, I would supply Faber components for the custom build. If I buy a guitar with bridge & tailpiece that is not Faber, I will change it to Faber. And finally, (and possible most important) if someone is thinking of switching out their bridge & tail piece to a locking system (in my opinion) it is a no brainer to go Faber.

 

And if you like your current bridge & stoptail, well that's fine too.

[ElNumero]

Congratulations! A couple of questions Rod, when you do the change out, does your guitar set-up change completely? In other words, is a brand new setup required? You definitely got me thinking about going down that road, since I do not plan on selling any guitars in my current stash. Most likely I will retrofit them one at a time, as money permits.

 

Waiting for Mr. Faber himself (Dan) to chime in here also!

[Spectrum13]

Chime time.

 

Measure the height of the previous bridge and duplicate on the Faber set intonation and done.

 

 

Congratulations! A couple of questions Rod, when you do the change out, does your guitar set-up change completely? In other words, is a brand new setup required? You definitely got me thinking about going down that road, since I do not plan on selling any guitars in my current stash. Most likely I will retrofit them one at a time, as money permits.

 

Waiting for Mr. Faber himself (Dan) to chime in here also!

[JeffB]

Good post. I enjoyed it. Related to it. For smaller detailed sonic enhancement, I think I might be deaf. Sometimes after a swap of somesort I think I couldve just dialed more treble, presence or mids into my amp or guitr and achieved similar results.

Speaker and amp swaps, I can hear them. Loud and clear.

[ElNumero]

Chime time.

 

Measure the height of the previous bridge and duplicate on the Faber set intonation and done.

 

 

Now are you talking about just bridge height or saddle height as well?

[Spectrum13]

Now are you talking about just bridge height or saddle height as well?

Good point. Heritage has a 12" radius and some are more into matching that radius on the saddles and filing smooth grooves so the string path has lest amount of friction so strings don't break and saddle tops are smooth on the palms. Quality setups will hold tune better.

[holyroller]

Good point. Heritage has a 12" radius and some are more into matching that radius on the saddles and filing smooth grooves so the string path has lest amount of friction so strings don't break and saddle tops are smooth on the palms. Quality setups will hold tune better.

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[holyroller]

At what point does the titanium half brass bridge effect the tone ?

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Rod]

A couple of questions Rod, when you do the change out, does your guitar set-up change completely?

 

I didn't measure, as Spectrum13 advised, so every thing changed. It was sort of due a setup anyway, so I wasn't worried about it.

 

As an aside to Kuz's post and tying this in to the PLEK discussion, if I have one PLEKed (which I would do now if a machine was closer) I'd want a Faber on it first, just so everything would be securely locked down to help preserve that "perfect" setup.

[kidsmoke]

First of all Rod, nice post. Very clear.

 

In all of my pro Faber posts, I've never made a proclamation regarding improvement in tone for the simple reason, I did not A/B with the same setup. When I went Faber on my guitar, the saddle/bridge situation was horrible. The materials and fitment, poor/sloppy, but at the same time, I swapped p'ups and harness. The entire axe was transformed.

 

But as the person who did the research, knows the materials used on the archetype guitars we all emulate, and did the install himself, so, like you, see's the night and day difference of the design and fitment of the components, I am absolutely certain that I have the best possible application of technology on my guitar.

 

It's worth noting to those folks who haven't swapped...there is no special sauce here. No intangibles. It simple application of fundamentals in regards to materials and tolerances.

 

It's as basic as being given a hammer and a screwdriver, and being asked to drive a nail. You will know immediately which is the better tool for the job.

 

As to the question of tone, I know without question I've allowed the optimum stability and transference of vibration. Whatever deficiency in tone my guitar presents, it's not due to the stoptail arrangement. Done.

 

original Tone-Pros nashville set up. The strings contact the bridge behind the saddles, The tail is so high and the anchor so small that the entire tail flexes.

 

top wrap improvement: the strings now avoid the bridge and the tail is closer to the guitar, additionally you can note the slop of the tail relative to the posts, due to the tilt introduced when top wrapping, illustrating the LACK of contact between the tail and the posts. So, how much energy is making it into the body of the guitar? AS an aside...when string changing, the tail needs to be carefully handled, else it simply drops and slides across the top of the guitar. Avoidable, yes, but an unnecessary design feature.

 

unfortunately I don't have the SAME view available at the moment of the Faberized set up...but here's a couple that show pretty well how low and solid the aluminum, secured tail sits.

 

 

[Farmboyjo]

Thanks everybody for this thread and Kidsmoke especially for the pictures. I haven't replaced my Schaller tailpiece, pretty much knowing my ears wouldn't hear a difference. But the mechanical & physical reasoning makes sense to me now. Swap a few things and give the particular guitar it's best chance it can to sound awesome. [emoji1360]

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[DetroitBlues]

I've never like the Schaller hardware... Too many moving parts to me.

 

EVH uses them same Schaller stuff today

 

However, my 2016 535 has Tonepros and they are locking. Maybe the factory has upgraded a bit?

[khmr33]

So is your shopping list definitive for any H150? I have a 2001 so I imagine it's close enough to your 2002.

 

If using all the part #'s you listed is what it takes to completely replace the bridge and tailpiece, then what was the final cost for parts?

 

I just need a ballpark so I can plan.

 

Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk

[Rod]

So is your shopping list definitive for any H150? I have a 2001 so I imagine it's close enough to your 2002.

 

If using all the part #'s you listed is what it takes to completely replace the bridge and tailpiece, then what was the final cost for parts?

 

I just need a ballpark so I can plan.

 

Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk

 

Kidsmoke... Excellent addendum.

 

 

Total for everything was 206.30, including some saddle screw retaining rings ($2.00). Keep in mind this is for the HYBRIDge, which is a little more. There's a 15% coupon for your first order.

 

I did a couple of things prior to ordering to make sure I was getting the right thing. Bought some 5/16-24 (fine thread) bolts and some M6-1.25 to see which would thread into the tailpiece inserts. Obviously, the metric was the one. On the bridge inserts, there's a significant difference in the diameter of the knurled portion of the insert. I just pulled one out and put a caliper on it. If you pull up the metric Master Kit, it would lead you to choose the other bridge insert commonly used by Epiphone and others who use the metric tailpiece insert. This is where the Heritage is different, or at least mine was, and my other Heritages appear to be the same (although I didn't pull any others). Also note that there's a 3rd option on the bridge inserts that requires that you tap the hole for the insert. They make a big deal out of this hole having to be perpendicular or it'll (obviously) change center distance of the studs. I wasn't willing to chance that, so I went with the INsert, and can't imagine that the other one would have been much improvement. The (longer) inserts had a good tight fit. It's a very easy installation.