DetroitBlues Posted February 26, 2018 Posted February 26, 2018 Just as a friendly reminder, please take these words from our Admin... "We do ask that you refrain from ad hominem (personal, for those who aren’t old enough to have taken any Latin) attacks against other members, Guests, dealers and, of course, the company itself. Legitimate gripes and concerns are fine, as long as you stick to facts. Essentially, we’ll stick to “treat others the way you want to be treated.” And, no, you can’t be mean, even if that’s how you want to be treated.?"
davesultra Posted February 26, 2018 Posted February 26, 2018 1 hour ago, Heritage1970 said: ...it's a damn shame. It's just sad that the new owners had to disguise a love for big big money with a love for Heritage. I feel like we've all been tricked and now the cat is out of the bag...but sadly, it's too late to turn back now. I'm guessing the old owners feel the same way.... I've met some great people on this forum- so I hope we all stay here and remain and celebrate all that Heritage once was. There's a lot of us and, fortunately, a lot of great Heritage guitars that left 225 Parsons out there. Let's use this forum to still celebrate those guitars and us. Everyone is entitled to their opinion, and hey, God bless you if you've been fortunate enough to inherit Daddy big bucks' money and you can buy up the world. Having said that- do your homework and you'll see the company is no longer ran by guys FROM Kalamazoo- with names like Bill, Jim, Marv, JP and Ren. Foreign investors with an eye on nothing but big bucks now claim an American Company. And so another one bites the dust. It's game over in K'Zoo. Make no mistake- the new owners see this as nothing but a money making opportunity. Now- I understand EVERYONE has that in mind when running a business- but it's always unique and awesome when a company can both run, as a business to make a profit AND share a family vibe. That vibe just got fired- so all that's left now is the money making end. I suppose if they get things rolling and open the cafe and the big, sprawling tourist attraction that we've all seen pictures of how they envision the plant looking soon, then enough people will come, time will roll on, and eventually K' Zoo will have a tourist trap where people come to see where "G" once lived and spend their money to buy a "Heritage." Most will not even know of, or probably care about all of the actions that just went down. I guess that's where the current owners are looking ahead to. Those of us fortunate to have a Heritage that came though the plant under the hands of JP, Jim, Marv, Ren, Charlie and others have a real Heritage, and those days have sadly come to an end. Hope everyone still keeps celebrating the original and real Heritage on this forum though. That's about all that we can do... Perhaps they can turn the old clamping windmill looking contraption into some kind of Ferris wheel, and charge $5 a pop to let the kiddies take a ride on it!
Heritage1970 Posted February 26, 2018 Posted February 26, 2018 12 minutes ago, davesultra said: Perhaps they can turn the old clamping windmill looking contraption into some kind of Ferris wheel, and charge $5 a pop to let the kiddies take a ride on it! Bwaahahaha!! There you go!!
Millennium Maestro Posted February 26, 2018 Posted February 26, 2018 3 hours ago, rwinking said: I own a few used Heritage guitars and was thinking about buying a new one with my tax refund. Not anymore. One good thing could come out of this....all of my Heritage guitars will be like owning Pre-CBS Fenders. There are a lot of excellent guitars new old stock from Dealers on Reverb/Ebay/Private sites... Get 'em while you can! I will be keeping a lot of my NOS.
CJTopes Posted February 26, 2018 Posted February 26, 2018 I for one am not surprised by any of this. Corporations buy out smaller companies all the time. They will then reconstruct the businesses to suit there needs. Often they will clean house of the current employees and bring in there own. I have a feeling they needed a guitar manufacturer or wanted to get in the guitar business to accent the rest of their acquisitions. IMO, the history of Heritage guitars is more of a marketing tool now. I wont bash the company. They need to do what they need to do. We'll have to wait and see how all this turns out. Hopefully the QC is be better as they say and the new Heritage will still be a quality instrument. My heart goes out to everyone that was let go. It seems like a stick in the eye. It sounds like some people on this board just lost some friends . It's sad to see.
Heritage1970 Posted February 26, 2018 Posted February 26, 2018 I guess that's the big problem I have. I am not bashing anyone and I am certainly not bashing the company. And if some of my words seem like I am I I certainly don't mean to. I am all about things moving on and new people coming in I understand that's unavoidable and that's just how life works. But what does bother me and what I do have a problem with is when you let go so many employees that had been there for so many years and were the heart of the company. That's what I have a problem with! If you're just bringing in all new employees to work cheaper or whatever the case may be then there really are no old-time Heritage employees there so therefore Heritage isn't there! That's just my opinion but that's the way I see it and it really bothers me. I guess I would just like some more explaining to go on besides the old "we needed to do what we had to do to keep the company going " - okay we get that but why couldn't you have kept the company going with the employees that were already there and had the knowledge and the years and the experience and the heart and soul to keep it going? I would love to hear some comments from any employees who have been there for years on their thoughts on this whole thing. Again not trying to bash anyone and hey everyone has their opinion. I would just like a little bit more of an explanation of why so many loyal employees were let go? And not just the usual " we had to do what we had to do to keep the company going. " That could have been done with your Old School Employees. So I'm kind of confused and angry.
ElNumero Posted February 26, 2018 Posted February 26, 2018 37 minutes ago, Millennium Maestro said: There are a lot of excellent guitars new old stock from Dealers on Reverb/Ebay/Private sites... Get 'em while you can! I will be keeping a lot of my NOS. PM me what you have in inventory that is for sale Guy. No guarantees that I will buy but you never know.
Millennium Maestro Posted February 26, 2018 Posted February 26, 2018 1 minute ago, ElNumero said: PM me what you have in inventory that is for sale Guy. No guarantees that I will buy but you never know. Phone call coming!
Kuz Posted February 26, 2018 Posted February 26, 2018 4 hours ago, DetroitBlues said: Just as a friendly reminder, please take these words from our Admin... "We do ask that you refrain from ad hominem (personal, for those who aren’t old enough to have taken any Latin) attacks against other members, Guests, dealers and, of course, the company itself. Legitimate gripes and concerns are fine, as long as you stick to facts. Essentially, we’ll stick to “treat others the way you want to be treated.” And, no, you can’t be mean, even if that’s how you want to be treated.?" I just read all this info today and it seems to be very well tempered AND factual.
DetroitBlues Posted February 27, 2018 Posted February 27, 2018 3 hours ago, Kuz said: I just read all this info today and it seems to be very well tempered AND factual. Not everyone is being so polite.
holyroller Posted February 27, 2018 Posted February 27, 2018 I guess that's the big problem I have. I am not bashing anyone and I am certainly not bashing the company. And if some of my words seem like I am I I certainly don't mean to. I am all about things moving on and new people coming in I understand that's unavoidable and that's just how life works. But what does bother me and what I do have a problem with is when you let go so many employees that had been there for so many years and were the heart of the company. That's what I have a problem with! If you're just bringing in all new employees to work cheaper or whatever the case may be then there really are no old-time Heritage employees there so therefore Heritage isn't there! That's just my opinion but that's the way I see it and it really bothers me. I guess I would just like some more explaining to go on besides the old "we needed to do what we had to do to keep the company going " - okay we get that but why couldn't you have kept the company going with the employees that were already there and had the knowledge and the years and the experience and the heart and soul to keep it going? I would love to hear some comments from any employees who have been there for years on their thoughts on this whole thing. Again not trying to bash anyone and hey everyone has their opinion. I would just like a little bit more of an explanation of why so many loyal employees were let go? And not just the usual " we had to do what we had to do to keep the company going. " That could have been done with your Old School Employees. So I'm kind of confused and angry.It can’t be higher wages. I talked to them about a buffing position. I have my own buffing shop for 32yrs. I was gonna sell my house and move to zoo and work a dream job.,,,,till they told me they pay 10$ per hour. What a joke I could make more at McDonald’s. So that was a heart breaker .Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Doug Posted February 27, 2018 Posted February 27, 2018 Trying to not be the knee-jerking guy... But I just can't find any positive spin on this whole fiasco. If they are trying to cut expenses then why are they sinking all that money into that stupid smokestack? Or are they? They keep begging all the locals to pitch in and pay for the glorious smokestack with another companies name on it. I can't see myself visiting their guitar factory/museum/restaurant/beergarden/theme park, ever. As a longtime Kalamazoo area resident, I'm angered.
RJLII Posted February 28, 2018 Posted February 28, 2018 I'm taking a wait and see approach. I'm hopeful I can order a custom Heritage when I turn 60. They have a few years to get it together. I've been through company restructuring activities before and have been around long enough to know they often work for the best. Yes, they're always disruptive. The last time it happened to me (2009) unemployment was 20% in my area and I was overqualified for 100% of the available jobs. I managed. Those that were released at Heritage will manage. At least they have a booming economy. Where I live (60 miles South of Kalamazoo), unemployment is under 2% now and anyone that wants a job can have one in 20 minutes (seriously). All the factories down here pay much better than Heritage too. Will the company survive? Probably. Will it ever be the same? Probably not. Is that a bad thing? Time will tell.
notbillgelder Posted February 28, 2018 Posted February 28, 2018 Here is what both sides had to say. http://wwmt.com/news/local/14-heritage-guitar-workers-off-the-job-as-company-heads-in-new-direction 14 Heritage Guitar Workers off the job as company heads in new direction by Walter Smith-Randolph | Newschannel 3 Tuesday, February 27th 2018 14 Heritage Guitar Workers off the job as company heads in new direction. (WWMT/Carter Gent) KALAMAZOO, Mich. — Fourteen Heritage Guitar workers are off the job on Tuesday as the historic company heads in a new direction and management says the new direction will elevate the company, while the fired workers disagree. Newschannel 3 broke the news that Rolling Stone is partnering with Heritage to make the Kalamazoo factory a tourist destination. Several workers say they were escorted off the property last week after a disagreement with management. In all, 10 workers were fired while four others walked off the job in protest. The workers say new management is incompetent and disrespectful to the workers who were continuing the tradition of hands-craftmanship at the historic 225 Parson Street factory. While management confirms staffing changes were made, company officials contend the change will ensure the Heritage and Gibson tradition continues in Kalamazoo. "Heritage, I think, is going to be a name only. People who bought it understand the history of 225 Parsons Street and they understand the Heritage name. I don't think they're going to perpetuate that and make guitars the same quality especially with hand-craftsmanship. They're not going to do it the same way,” former worker Ron Hough said. Company officials released the following statement: To ensure the short and long term sustainability of the business, staffing changes had to be made at the heritage guitar factory last week. The decision to make these changes was not one that we took lightly and it was a sad day for everyone involved. Our focus on building a foundation for 2018 and beyond requires an emphasis on quality over quantity. The heritage guitars team are committed to building a healthy and sustainable business that consistently produces amazing, high quality instruments for many years to come in Kalamazoo. Newschannel 3 is told despite the changes, the partnership with Rolling Stone and Plazacorp is not in jeopardy. The former workers also released a statement: We’re the former Heritage Guitar craftsmen who were disrespectfully escorted out of the building on Friday with no notice. 10 were fired and an additional 4 left in support of our coworkers and friends. We could no longer work for the incompetent management that is this disrespectful to the craftspeople who were continuing the tradition of hand-craftsmanship that is and was Heritage guitar. When ownership changed we were told that they understood what this building means to our community and what this company means to this building. Most of us were trained under the impeccable eye of quality by Marv Lamb which is what made Heritage Guitar what it has been for the last 30 years, an extension of this building and what it means to the local and guitar community. This building is a testament to true, hand-built craftsmanship. Some of the most valuable guitars in the world have come from this building. Heritage and the men that started it believed in continuing that hand-craftsmanship tradition. Were those guitars flawless, no, because they were made by human hearts and hands. Are any of us perfect, no. Changes in production were implemented by management that resulted in less than Heritage quality. Their unwillingness to listen or understand the high quality standards resulted in the destruction of over 300 guitars. Our years of experience have fallen on deaf ears and now the employees are being escape goated as to the reason for the drop in quality. None of us here are wealthy, or do it for the money. We did it for the love of the guitars. In fact, most of us worked for slightly over minimum wage with no medical benefits. During the 100th Anniversary Celebration they expressed that they embraced those traditions, meanwhile they are bringing in CNC and Pleck machines which do not represent what the building and company stand for. All the while, accusing us of being resistant to change. We understand that corporations have to meet their bottom-line and that their eye for quality may need to be 100%, which is not attainable through hand-craftsmanship. None of us are perfect, but none of us feel like that justifies this type of treatment while they continue to perpetuate the story of hand-craftsmanship on the back of the true craftsman that made it what it was before the new owner took possession.
holyroller Posted February 28, 2018 Posted February 28, 2018 How many guitars do heritage make? Doesn’t seem like not that many with a few people. How do you keep up with the huge operation cost? Little confused but there’s plenty of heritage guitars out there new and used to choose from.Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
DetroitBlues Posted February 28, 2018 Posted February 28, 2018 I couldn't imagine witnessing the carnage of 300 destroyed guitars.
Heritage1970 Posted February 28, 2018 Posted February 28, 2018 4 hours ago, RJLII said: I'm taking a wait and see approach. I'm hopeful I can order a custom Heritage when I turn 60. They have a few years to get it together. I've been through company restructuring activities before and have been around long enough to know they often work for the best. Yes, they're always disruptive. The last time it happened to me (2009) unemployment was 20% in my area and I was overqualified for 100% of the available jobs. I managed. Those that were released at Heritage will manage. At least they have a booming economy. Where I live (60 miles South of Kalamazoo), unemployment is under 2% now and anyone that wants a job can have one in 20 minutes (seriously). All the factories down here pay much better than Heritage too. Will the company survive? Probably. Will it ever be the same? Probably not. Is that a bad thing? Time will tell. 2%? Not saying I'm doubting you, but usually when you see these statistics and the old "the jobs are there if you want one" saying- it means you can go to Burger King or Joe's Hot Dog Stand. Are these any serious jobs or just good ones for High School kids? Also- when you work at a craft, as the folks let go from Heritage did, where do you go to find that type of work again? How many guitar companies are there within driving range of Kalamazoo? And even if you find one, are they just going to welcome you with decent enough pay? Hard to go from performing your craft daily to "this one gets 2 patties, this one gets Cheddar".........
Polo Posted February 28, 2018 Posted February 28, 2018 1 hour ago, DetroitBlues said: I couldn't imagine witnessing the carnage of 300 destroyed guitars. I heard they even had to bring in a consultant.
davesultra Posted February 28, 2018 Posted February 28, 2018 14 minutes ago, Polo said: I heard they even had to bring in a consultant. I’ll bet his consulting fee was more than all the terminated employees salaries combined!
Millennium Maestro Posted February 28, 2018 Posted February 28, 2018 44 minutes ago, Polo said: I heard they even had to bring in a consultant. Pete Townsend... LOL He'll smash'em all!
CJTopes Posted February 28, 2018 Posted February 28, 2018 1 hour ago, Polo said: I heard they even had to bring in a consultant. Pete!!! The reason I started playing guitar!!! I used to think the smashing was cool.. Now it makes me cringe.
RJLII Posted February 28, 2018 Posted February 28, 2018 2 hours ago, Heritage1970 said: 2%? Not saying I'm doubting you, but usually when you see these statistics and the old "the jobs are there if you want one" saying- it means you can go to Burger King or Joe's Hot Dog Stand. Are these any serious jobs or just good ones for High School kids? Also- when you work at a craft, as the folks let go from Heritage did, where do you go to find that type of work again? How many guitar companies are there within driving range of Kalamazoo? And even if you find one, are they just going to welcome you with decent enough pay? Hard to go from performing your craft daily to "this one gets 2 patties, this one gets Cheddar"......... https://www.bls.gov/eag/eag.in_elkhart_msa.htm#eag_in_elkhart_msa.f.2 2.1% as of 12/17. See link. Jobs in 20 minutes are mostly factory work. Material Handling, assembly, fabrication, welding, maintenance, custodial, etc. Usually $12-$18/hr to start unless you have zero skills. All the restaurants, pizza shops, burger joints, etc. are hiring too. We just had a new restaurant close shortly after opening because they couldn't find workers. There are a number of wood products companies down here that serve the RV, MH, and furniture industries. There are no guitars companies other than a couple one man shops. How many that were let go from Heritage were luthiers anyway? https://www.bls.gov/eag/eag.in_elkhart_msa.htm#eag_in_elkhart_msa.f.2
Heritage1970 Posted February 28, 2018 Posted February 28, 2018 That's great to know. All I am saying is these were Craftsmen and women. How many were luthiers? If you look into the history of Gibson back in their Heyday in Kalamazoo all of them pretty much we're hired right off the street and t 12 minutes ago, RJLII said: https://www.bls.gov/eag/eag.in_elkhart_msa.htm#eag_in_elkhart_msa.f.2 2.1% as of 12/17. See link. Jobs in 20 minutes are mostly factory work. Material Handling, assembly, fabrication, welding, maintenance, custodial, etc. Usually $12-$18/hr to start unless you have zero skills. All the restaurants, pizza shops, burger joints, etc. are hiring too. We just had a new restaurant close shortly after opening because they couldn't find workers. There are a number of wood products companies down here that serve the RV, MH, and furniture industries. There are no guitars companies other than a couple one man shops. How many that were let go from Heritage were luthiers anyway? https://www.bls.gov/eag/eag.in_elkhart_msa.htm#eag_in_elkhart_msa.f.2 That's great to know. All I am saying is these were Craftsmen and women. How many were luthiers? If you look into the history of Gibson back in their Heyday in Kalamazoo all of them pretty much we're hired right off the street and taught how to do the work. Pretty much the same way they operated in Heritage up until recently. So how many of them were luthiers? I guess all of them once they were trained is the answer. But like I said even back in Gibsons Hay Day they trained people right off the street to build the world's finest guitars. And they did a hell of a job. So did heritage. The bottom line is when you're taught to do a craft and you take pride in it it's very hard to leave that and go to a factory job or making a pizza.
RJLII Posted February 28, 2018 Posted February 28, 2018 28 minutes ago, Heritage1970 said: That's great to know. All I am saying is these were Craftsmen and women. How many were luthiers? If you look into the history of Gibson back in their Heyday in Kalamazoo all of them pretty much we're hired right off the street and taught how to do the work. Pretty much the same way they operated in Heritage up until recently. So how many of them were luthiers? I guess all of them once they were trained is the answer. But like I said even back in Gibsons Hay Day they trained people right off the street to build the world's finest guitars. And they did a hell of a job. So did heritage. The bottom line is when you're taught to do a craft and you take pride in it it's very hard to leave that and go to a factory job or making a pizza. I'm not trying to discount what they were doing, or their commitment to what they were doing. How many were capable of making a guitar from scratch? The reality is that they were factory workers. They worked in a guitar factory. Their factory made a sexy product and there is a fair bit of status and prestige that comes with that, but it's basically a wood shop. They had a special set of skills that they learned or refined on the job. Hopefully most of these skills are transferable elsewhere. I'm hopeful that whether you're making world class guitars or bars of soap that you take pride in what you do and try to be the best (insert role here) that you can be. I'm rooting for these folks.
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