Some very disturbing news from 225

[DetroitBlues]

2 hours ago, Polo said:

 

I heard they even had to bring in a consultant.

 

 

At least it wasn't Henry...

 

[kidsmoke]

4 hours ago, Heritage1970 said:

2%? Not saying I'm doubting you, but usually when you see these statistics and the old "the jobs are there if you want one" saying- it means you can go to Burger King or Joe's Hot Dog Stand. Are these any serious jobs or just good ones for High School kids? Also- when you work at a craft, as the folks let go from Heritage did, where do you go to find that type of work again? How many guitar companies are there within driving range of Kalamazoo? And even if you find one, are they just going to welcome you with decent enough pay? Hard to go from performing your craft daily to "this one gets 2 patties, this one gets Cheddar".........

I run a fabrication facility 90 minutes south of RLJII. Cannot find people to work. Starting factory wages have risen sharply, and still, next to impossible to bring on employees. I'm also 4 months into a search for Class A driver. 60k a year, 3 - 4 days a week. 4 months....no one with a pulse has darkened my door. Talking with a trucking company distribution ctr mgr yesterday, he's had 4 openings in Kokomo at higher wages than that open for months. I also have plants in Baltimore and Houston looking for supervisor level employees, management opportunities imminent....crickets.

They should be able to get jobs. Point is they wanted to build guitars...

[Heritage1970]

3 minutes ago, kidsmoke said:

I run a fabrication facility 90 minutes south of RLJII. Cannot find people to work. Starting factory wages have risen sharply, and still, next to impossible to bring on employees. I'm also 4 months into a search for Class A driver. 60k a year, 3 - 4 days a week. 4 months....no one with a pulse has darkened my door. Talking with a trucking company distribution ctr mgr yesterday, he's had 4 openings in Kokomo at higher wages than that open for months. I also have plants in Baltimore and Houston looking for supervisor level employees, management opportunities imminent....crickets.

They should be able to get jobs. Point is they wanted to build guitars...

Exactly! I know jobs are out there, but you're told your whole life the old "just do what you love to do and you'll never work a day in your life" shtick- these people did that and it kicked 'em in the ass. Really sucks to go from doing what you love to cutting a pizza...

[tbonesullivan]

I don't buy the "Hand built means they aren't perfect" argument. The QC issues were not ones that couldn't easily be eliminated.

[RhoadsScholar]

I wish only the best from those wonderful folks that had a hand in building the 7 great Heritage guitars I presently have in my possession. I will NEVER buy what is referred to a 'Plaza Build' Heritage. Very turned off by the recent management decisions. 

IN case Heritage is still checking in on the HOC, let's not forget about the 300 guitars they smashed.  YIKES! In memory of those (what may have been) Perfectly Good Guitars.  From one of my favorite song writers.

 

[mjstich88]

My only Heritage guitar is my 2016 custom H-530. I placed the order just weeks before they announced the new owners were going to be taking over. When I decided to go with heritage over any other company it wasn't just the fact that they build great guitars at a great price...it was also about the people making the great guitars and how they ran their business. I knew they were a company I would happily want to spend my money on. If I was going to make the decision to order a heritage as of hearing this news...I think I would spend my money somewhere else. 

[DetroitBlues]

5 hours ago, kidsmoke said:

I run a fabrication facility 90 minutes south of RLJII. Cannot find people to work. Starting factory wages have risen sharply, and still, next to impossible to bring on employees. I'm also 4 months into a search for Class A driver. 60k a year, 3 - 4 days a week. 4 months....no one with a pulse has darkened my door. Talking with a trucking company distribution ctr mgr yesterday, he's had 4 openings in Kokomo at higher wages than that open for months. I also have plants in Baltimore and Houston looking for supervisor level employees, management opportunities imminent....crickets.

They should be able to get jobs. Point is they wanted to build guitars...

Such a shame.  Good money to be had but all the kids out there think college or nothing.

[deytookerjaabs]

Mr. Viscelli, who worked as a truck driver for several months while researching his 2016 book, “The Big Rig: Trucking and the Decline of the American Dream,” says upward of 25% of long-haul truck drivers are independent contractors, also known as owner-operators. They are attracted by promises of being their own bosses, but the arrangement often saddles them with unsustainable debt and high expenses, he adds.

 

Drivers typically receive training from big trucking companies or schools affiliated with them. Those who become independent contractors sign lease-to-own deals to purchase their vehicles, often with those same companies. But the terms are onerous, and drivers owe so much that they may end up working 70 or 80 hours a week just to pay back what they owe and cover expenses such as fuel and insurance. Drivers are suing some companies that use this model, saying they should be classified as employees rather than contractors.

Even those working as employees have a hard time making ends meet, partly because they are only paid for the miles they drive, not time waiting to load and unload their rigs or sitting in traffic. Mr. Viscelli recounts a 16-hour day spent crawling through traffic in the New York area, only to get stuck at a New Jersey rail yard for the night. That day he drove 215 miles and earned $56.

The result of these conditions? Drivers burn out quickly and quit.

The industry could fix its labor shortage, Mr. Viscelli says, by raising pay enough to compensate for the hardships of the job or improving the terms for independent contractors. In 2015, heavy and tractor-trailer truck drivers earned a median wage of $40,260, according to the Bureau of Labor Statistics. Mr. Viscelli says that number masks the reality that most drivers work far more than 40 hours a week to get to that income.

Oh man, the "Truck Driver Shortage" comeback always rears it's ugly head in these discussions, lol. A good way to get and keep employees? Not screw them where it counts is a nice start. 

[Kuz]

2 hours ago, mjstich88 said:

My only Heritage guitar is my 2016 custom H-530. I placed the order just weeks before they announced the new owners were going to be taking over. When I decided to go with heritage over any other company it wasn't just the fact that they build great guitars at a great price...it was also about the people making the great guitars and how they ran their business. I knew they were a company I would happily want to spend my money on. If I was going to make the decision to order a heritage as of hearing this news...I think I would spend my money somewhere else. 

Amen Brother.  Those were my thoughts exactly.

-I don't understand this "Uber-QC" when my Heritages have all been near perfect other than a micro-small file mark or pin-sized spot that wasn't finish buffed.   

-WHY are RELIC'D guitars MORE EXPENSIVE than NOS finishes.  Because they feel broken in.

-THE MOST EXPENSIVE guitars in the world are vintage guitars.  I have owned over a dozen.  NOT ONE WAS EVEN CLOSE to the QC of my Heritages in terms of fit, finish, or playability.   I sold a '65 ES-335 to obtain many of the guitars in my modest collection. 

-IF a perfect paint finish, with perfect frets, and micron tolerance are SO IMPORTANT,  why does REAL GUITARS want a '59 Burst?  BECAUSE THEY SOUND BETTER.

-To quote REN..... "How does she sound?"

-How quickly guitarist all forgot about the most important element of any instrument...... "How does she sound?"  ...................................................

[Budha]

On 2/23/2018 at 12:46 PM, brentrocks said:

I just heard from a very reliable source that Heritage is going to be firing almost half of their staff.  

AND

They cut up over 300 completed guitars that were originally going to be donated to local schools.  

The word is that the new management has been making some DRASTIC CHANGES throughout the entire company....along with the firing of their entire USA sales staff.  

Doesnt sound like good news, but it needs to be told.   No sense in sugar coating it.  

Has anyone seen an explaination for why the 300 guitars were destroyed?  Where they very poorly made examples?

[Heritage1970]

11 hours ago, Kuz said:

To quote REN..... "How does she sound?"

Speaking of Ren, has anyone heard anything from him or Bill? I hope they aren't out too. Such great guys. Ren literally grew up in that factory, and his Father had a huge impact in Kalamazoo and Nationwide With Gibson and spreading the word of all things guitar back in the day. Great people. We owe them a lot. 

 

[tbonesullivan]

2 hours ago, Budha said:

Has anyone seen an explaination for why the 300 guitars were destroyed?  Where they very poorly made examples?

From what I gather, they were factory seconds, blems, etc that were going to be donated. Maybe they were all those guitars in various states of completion that were abandoned for whatever reason. I'm not really in the know on this.

What I do know is that some companies don't even put out 2nds. They just send them to the saw.

Why were they cut up? Who knows. Personally I would have thought it would be better to strip them, sand off the name on the headstock, and sell them. Definitely would have been more cost effective than cutting them up.

[LittleLeroy]

On 2/26/2018 at 8:50 AM, heritagefan said:

No reason to curse anyone (whatever that means).  Heritage is a company.  The company makes a product.  The owners have a RIGHT to do with both as they please.  The public has a right to buy or not buy the product, or the lame PR piece it takes four hours to draft since you didn't anticipate the fall out or the blow back.  When you get rid of the workers who actually make the product, saying it was necessary for the financial well being of the company, but keep the 80 year old's who do nothing but allow you to market the company in a way you think will be helpful, people see through it.  When you own 49% of a huge and well respected rock and roll publication, and the purchase of an iconic company like Heritage  does not get mentioned in that publication, people notice.  When a company is sold and the culture changes in this drastic a manner, it is sad.  For the people who put their best years in to it, it is tragic.  The company is no longer an American owned company passing down the art of guitar craftsmanship to the next generation.  The last generation has  been fired.  It's now just a brand in the stable of a rich son of a successful businessman.  It may prosper, it may fail, but it will NEVER be Heritage again.  Some may truly like it better.  Some may stay loyal because the name lives on.  Adolphus Busch wouldn't recognize Bud Light.  He might call it piss.  But the name lives on........

my emphasis added.  

I was looking forward to making it up to K'zoo with a couple of my guitars to meet the guys that built 'em.  Maybe that could still happen, but it won't be at 225.  Being in Santa Fe makes it a long haul and PSP comes at a very busy time of year for my band; it's hard to get away then.  

I know the new owner(s) have the "right" to do with Heritage what they may, yet it saddens me the era of the hand-made Heritage is over.  I came late to Heritage and don't feel I can say I'm part of the "family" beyond owning a few and offering my 2¢ here.  But I have mighty respect for the people who were keeping the art alive at 225 and that's you folks on the Forum as well as the people who built my guitars.

 

[bolero]

I posted this elsewhere, but here copypasta:

Heritage had been for sale for years, and no American source was interested in buying...

wax poetic all you want, but otherwise Heritage would have ceased to exist, IMO

I know people who were turned off the brand because of QC issues. Compared to PRS, for example

I believe PRS uses CNC as well? I don't hear ppl complaining about their quality, or build process

[deytookerjaabs]

3 hours ago, bolero said:

I posted this elsewhere, but here copypasta:

Heritage had been for sale for years, and no American source was interested in buying...

wax poetic all you want, but otherwise Heritage would have ceased to exist, IMO

I know people who were turned off the brand because of QC issues. Compared to PRS, for example

I believe PRS uses CNC as well? I don't hear ppl complaining about their quality, or build process

 

 

I disagree. There's nothing better about PRS "QC" other than the guitars are designed to be tanks, which Heritage doesn't have the luxury of doing unless they completely change their neck designs and ditch lacquer among other things. Google is your friend, how about "PRS DGT Finish Issue" oh that's a rabbit hole in and of itself when they tried lacquer. Even though they're engineered to be robust and the white wood comes out the CNC practically idiot proofed I've read about...Trem misalignment, fretboard cracking/splitting, peeling finishes, stain bloches, electronics/pots/parts issues, all on new usa guitars mostly via the PRS forum of all places. Then neck joint splitting at the bodies after a fall is akin to the gibby headstock issue (though SG's do this too). Don't even get started on the SE series. This online MYTH that PRS has attained some perfection is a joke as is the new "Heritage QC Issues" overblowing of epic proportions because some fretwork needed fretwork or there was a smidge of glue inside a hollow guitar. 

 

Trust me, you can have Heritage guitars with faux binding, synthetic preformed nuts, 10 Degree headstocks, a polyester finish, undercut frets and the like too.

 

And................Once that happens, why not just buy a PRS?

 

 

[LittleLeroy]

5 hours ago, deytookerjaabs said:

 

 

I disagree. There's nothing better about PRS "QC" other than the guitars are designed to be tanks, which Heritage doesn't have the luxury of doing unless they completely change their neck designs and ditch lacquer among other things. Google is your friend, how about "PRS DGT Finish Issue" oh that's a rabbit hole in and of itself when they tried lacquer. Even though they're engineered to be robust and the white wood comes out the CNC practically idiot proofed I've read about...Trem misalignment, fretboard cracking/splitting, peeling finishes, stain bloches, electronics/pots/parts issues, all on new usa guitars mostly via the PRS forum of all places. Then neck joint splitting at the bodies after a fall is akin to the gibby headstock issue (though SG's do this too). Don't even get started on the SE series. This online MYTH that PRS has attained some perfection is a joke as is the new "Heritage QC Issues" overblowing of epic proportions because some fretwork needed fretwork or there was a smidge of glue inside a hollow guitar. 

 

Trust me, you can have Heritage guitars with faux binding, synthetic preformed nuts, 10 Degree headstocks, a polyester finish, undercut frets and the like too.

 

And................Once that happens, why not just buy a PRS?

 

 

Yeah, I gotta agree with dtj here regarding PRS.  A little known secret: virtually all double cut PRS have dead spots on the fretboard.  Especially the B string at the 12th fret.  They are not perfect.  I've had many, many high end PRS guitars and Private Stock guitars, that did not and do not measure up to my Heritage guitars.  I sent back 4 Private Stock guitars before buying mine from run of 25.  Each was gorgeous and played well, but had dead notes and uneven sounding notes.  After sending back 4, I continued my search by having the dealers send me mp3s.  I didn't care what it looked like if it wouldn't sustain properly to the 22nd fret.

The other issue with PRS for me is their sound, which just rubs me the wrong way onstage.  Probably just my ears; zillions of people seem to love the way they sound.

 This is why I own too many Heritage guitars now and am letting go of my Private Stock.  I'd rather buy more Heritage instruments.

[bolero]

really?

wow....

I'll admit am not familiar with PRS guitars, or particularly like them; but I have friends that do. ( I owned one for a while but sold it )

and for the record, I never had any issues with Heritage guitars.

Actually, just one, and I believe it was involved in the flood they had. I think it was a 2nd

[Kuz]

I am going to call BS on the PRS QC.  I have owned 8 PRSi guitars, from Private Stock to DGT & AL D signatures to regular production guitars...... and every single own was absolutely perfect.  I could have gigged them out of the box.

Has Gibson, PRS, Heritage, Collings, ect... made the very rare lemon, sure.   See you hear about the 1 out of 100 that has a small flaw, but you don't hear about the 99 that are just fine.

[davesultra]

19 minutes ago, Kuz said:

I am going to call BS on the PRS QC.  I have owned 8 PRSi guitars, from Private Stock to DGT & AL D signatures to regular production guitars...... and every single own was absolutely perfect.  I could have gigged them out of the box.

Has Gibson, PRS, Heritage, Collings, ect... made the very rare lemon, sure.   See you hear about the 1 out of 100 that has a small flaw, but you don't hear about the 99 that are just fine.

I too have never had a PRS with issues (I've owned a dozen or so). I currently have a McCarty Standard and even one of their import SE models. Not a flaw to be found, not even close to 1 dead spot on either fretboard. Amazed with the QC on the import model. I'm sure there have been some bad ones, but I've never come across one.

[LittleLeroy]

23 minutes ago, Kuz said:

I am going to call BS on the PRS QC.  I have owned 8 PRSi guitars, from Private Stock to DGT & AL D signatures to regular production guitars...... and every single own was absolutely perfect.  I could have gigged them out of the box.

Has Gibson, PRS, Heritage, Collings, ect... made the very rare lemon, sure.   See you hear about the 1 out of 100 that has a small flaw, but you don't hear about the 99 that are just fine.

 

3 minutes ago, davesultra said:

I too have never had a PRS with issues (I've owned a dozen or so). I currently have a McCarty Standard and even one of their import SE models. Not a flaw to be found, not even close to 1 dead spot on either fretboard. Amazed with the QC on the import model. I'm sure there have been some bad ones, but I've never come across one.

Too each her own.  U may call BS.  I can only relate my experience and I stand by it.  Perhaps we have different ideas of what a "dead spot" is? 

Also, on one PS I owned the finish on the back of the neck was not cured properly, ala Gibson, and after 10 minutes of playing there was a gummy residue that built up.  I was advised it would be a "couple years" before it that would stop.  PRS QC seemed fine with it on a $9k guitar.

Have you seen that on any Heritage instruments?

[Kuz]

6 minutes ago, LittleLeroy said:

 

Too each her own.  U may call BS.  I can only relate my experience and I stand by it.  Perhaps we have different ideas of what a "dead spot" is? 

Also, on one PS I owned the finish on the back of the neck was not cured properly, ala Gibson, and after 10 minutes of playing there was a gummy residue that built up.  I was advised it would be a "couple years" before it that would stop.  PRS QC seemed fine with it on a $9k guitar.

Have you seen that on any Heritage instruments?

Sounds like a typical nitro-finish issue.  On real nitro finished guitars, I have had a sticky gummy-ness that I have had to polish off after playing and yes, it took a couple of years before the nitro finish wore down to where it didn't do that anymore.  It's happened to almost every new nitro-finished guitar I have owned, including my Heritages.

Guitar polish is your friend with nitro-finished guitars.

[DetroitBlues]

I’ve heard of,  but never experienced dead spots before.

Ive owned two S2’s that had quality issues, but that was only because they use cheaper imported electronics.

[LittleLeroy]

3 minutes ago, Kuz said:

Sounds like a typical nitro-finish issue.  On real nitro finished guitars, I have had a sticky gummy-ness that I have had to polish off after playing and yes, it took a couple of years before the nitro finish wore down to where it didn't do that anymore.  It's happened to almost every new nitro-finished guitar I have owned, including my Heritages.

Guitar polish is your friend with nitro-finished guitars.

Thank for the reply Kuz.  I was advised to use Naptha.  It works, but a PITA.  

[Kuz]

Just now, LittleLeroy said:

Thank for the reply Kuz.  I was advised to use Naptha.  It works, but a PITA.  

Yea, I heard that Naptha will work as well, but I never tried it.   Also the sticky-reaction will vary from person to person, based on their body chemistry to how much a problem it is for them.  You might, unfortunately be really sensitive to it.  Nitro is not too bad for me, but I have heard of some guitarists that will completely strip the finish of the neck down to the bare wood (ala Fender CS relics) because it is so sticky for them.  

[deytookerjaabs]

1 hour ago, Kuz said:

I am going to call BS on the PRS QC.  I have owned 8 PRSi guitars, from Private Stock to DGT & AL D signatures to regular production guitars...... and every single own was absolutely perfect.  I could have gigged them out of the box.

Has Gibson, PRS, Heritage, Collings, ect... made the very rare lemon, sure.   See you hear about the 1 out of 100 that has a small flaw, but you don't hear about the 99 that are just fine.

 

 

Before you call BS, why not use Google?

https://forums.prsguitars.com/threads/finish-peeling-off.21410/

https://forums.prsguitars.com/threads/is-fading-finishes-still-a-problem.22261/

http://forums.prsguitars.com/threads/prs-s2-cu24-warranty-covers-finish-issues.15542/

 

These are just finish related, I could go on with all sorts of other repairs/issues etc but searching is your friend as you can check some of the problems I mentioned. Funny some of the old threads I remember I checked for on the PRS forum have since been deleted. There was one about a whole batch of mis-aligned trems that was pretty funny/epic, once one guy noticed a certain standard gauge (.011's? iirc) wouldn't intonate the low E, a couple others with the same guitar made damn near the same month or two verified it.