JeffB Posted March 1, 2018 Posted March 1, 2018 18 hours ago, Steiner said: Average is a poor indicator of the middle with wealth distribution. The median and mode are a much better statistics for skewed distributions. Yep sorry, I said average but it was the median I was quoting.
Spectrum13 Posted March 1, 2018 Posted March 1, 2018 4 hours ago, ElNumero said: That's easy to answer. Trust a CPA. Studies have shown that they ARE the most trusted of all professionals. What profession is rated last in trustworthiness? You guessed it, lawyers and the legal profession. I am proud of my noble profession! As your "tails from the gate" posts show, the Car Park Attendants are 100% capable off allowing cars in and out. And much more.
LittleLeroy Posted March 1, 2018 Posted March 1, 2018 4 hours ago, ElNumero said: So the question finally got answered, a dozen Heritage guitars, cool. You mean you believe me? C'mon...come clean Mr. CPA ... you counted guitars in the pic, didn't you?
heritagefan Posted March 2, 2018 Posted March 2, 2018 We should be most disturbed by the quote from Arnie that the workers were making 10 bucks an hour with no benefits. That means no pay increase since prior to the Plaza Corp partner's purchase, and healthcare being cut. Shows where the heart of the company has gone. Probably no one will get sick working in such an extravagant building, right? The smokestack will cure cancer and the beer garden will ward off the flu? Four guys who knew a lot about building guitars and a little about running a business lasted 30+ years taking care of their people. No, they lasted BECAUSE they took care of their people. These m(b)illionaires panic (or lie) after fewer months than the originals lasted YEARS and hide behind this health of the company farce as they pump tons of cash into improvements that only benefit the company, and fire the workers. Sad. Then they post on a fan page about how sad they are. Nice touch. Turns the stomach.
deytookerjaabs Posted March 2, 2018 Posted March 2, 2018 2 hours ago, heritagefan said: We should be most disturbed by the quote from Arnie that the workers were making 10 bucks an hour with no benefits. That means no pay increase since prior to the Plaza Corp partner's purchase, and healthcare being cut. Shows where the heart of the company has gone. Probably no one will get sick working in such an extravagant building, right? The smokestack will cure cancer and the beer garden will ward off the flu? Four guys who knew a lot about building guitars and a little about running a business lasted 30+ years taking care of their people. No, they lasted BECAUSE they took care of their people. These m(b)illionaires panic (or lie) after fewer months than the originals lasted YEARS and hide behind this health of the company farce as they pump tons of cash into improvements that only benefit the company, and fire the workers. Sad. Then they post on a fan page about how sad they are. Nice touch. Turns the stomach. Remember the statement of Jim Deurloo to end their touchy-feely promo vid after the sale?? "I don't care about my personal legacy, what I want is a company to survive, to take good care of the people that we have here. That's really what I want. I want them to be able to make a good living off it, take care of them and their family. That'd be good enough for me." https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZFKOsYcGazQ
kidsmoke Posted March 2, 2018 Posted March 2, 2018 And Jim is still there. Yet it seems very few of you can conceive that that vision may remain intact.
deytookerjaabs Posted March 2, 2018 Posted March 2, 2018 1 hour ago, kidsmoke said: And Jim is still there. Yet it seems very few of you can conceive that that vision may remain intact. Nah, been there, done that, seen it too many times. Find ways to sink hundred of thousands to millions into pet projects whether it's useless seminars/trips/events/travel and all myriads of other expenses then when it comes time to save literally one dime prevailing wisdom blames "labor." Then turn around and talk about how it was necessary to keep finances in tact so a certain percentage of the gullible and honest-hearted persons will swallow the tripe. It's not even just the corporate/business world where this mentality exists, I watch it happen at a non-profit. A division manager, lying to her staff about the budget, touting how "the money isn't there" for all sorts of expected and promised absolute basics like a $5 lunch for 50 volunteers working their butts off. Micro-managing tiny costs for the bread & butter of the organization. Meanwhile, scheduling $20,000+ "team building" activities through price gouging travel agencies to head out with a couple staff members to a smokey mountain resort where you get there and sit in a meeting room all day running over useless memes while not doing your actual job.....literally, then go into town for a game of bowling. Never underestimate how far selfish behavior can infect even those who are supposed to be employed for the greater good!!
Jim W Posted March 2, 2018 Posted March 2, 2018 4 hours ago, heritagefan said: We should be most disturbed by the quote from Arnie that the workers were making 10 bucks an hour with no benefits. That means no pay increase since prior to the Plaza Corp partner's purchase, and healthcare being cut. Are we positive they had healthcare prior to Plazacorp?
kidsmoke Posted March 2, 2018 Posted March 2, 2018 1 hour ago, deytookerjaabs said: Nah, been there, done that, seen it too many times. Find ways to sink hundred of thousands to millions into pet projects whether it's useless seminars/trips/events/travel and all myriads of other expenses then when it comes time to save literally one dime prevailing wisdom blames "labor." Then turn around and talk about how it was necessary to keep finances in tact so a certain percentage of the gullible and honest-hearted persons will swallow the tripe. It's not even just the corporate/business world where this mentality exists, I watch it happen at a non-profit. A division manager, lying to her staff about the budget, touting how "the money isn't there" for all sorts of expected and promised absolute basics like a $5 lunch for 50 volunteers working their butts off. Micro-managing tiny costs for the bread & butter of the organization. Meanwhile, scheduling $20,000+ "team building" activities through price gouging travel agencies to head out with a couple staff members to a smokey mountain resort where you get there and sit in a meeting room all day running over useless memes while not doing your actual job.....literally, then go into town for a game of bowling. Never underestimate how far selfish behavior can infect even those who are supposed to be employed for the greater good!! pretty cynical. and definitely not without reason. I don't share the pessimism, in this case. I've been in business for over 30 years, from driving fork trucks, through tool and die apprenticeships to journeyman, to running a plant. At one point I had to personally let over 50 people go, (ironically I was working for Trump at the time) Hurt like hell, but had to be done. Very different than in this case at Heritage. NO one was surprised. More like relieved. I've certainly seen the paradigm you cite at work. I've also experienced the opposite, where ownership bucks prevailing financial wisdom and the boards direction in deference to the welfare of the rank and file. That attitude DOES exists, even in shrewdly managed operations. To my knowledge no one here has seen the books. We don't know how dire the situation was, or the distribution of tasks among those released. Arnies opinion carries a lot of weight with me, but I remain optimistic. I hope it's rewarded. It wouldn't be the first time I was wrong.
deytookerjaabs Posted March 2, 2018 Posted March 2, 2018 Yep, sometimes it has to be done when business wains, outsourcing, etc and we don't know the plans (but they look BIG). But we do know Edwin Wilson isn't making $10/hr, they brought back the Plek which used to be a coat rack, they brought in CNC, and they're dumping millions into the renovations. Maybe it was "necessary" but, damn, these guys laid off were pulling 20k a year thus it certainly feels from a distance like they're focused on squeezing the bottom the hardest first and foremost while the sky is the limit for their new ideas. It's good that Jim and others are still around though. Even speculating on the books at this point is kinda a silly given the scale of what they're doing though, no? The kinds of investment we're seeing are usually done for increasing long term perceived value & branding etc, not for short term focus on the bottom line, much the way the local sports team owner will claim to "lose money" on daily operation as his franchise value/assets grow and grow outpacing the losses. There is a reason for the season.
Steiner Posted March 2, 2018 Posted March 2, 2018 How poor do work conditions and financial compensation have to be to warrant 4 people to say screw it?
yoslate Posted March 2, 2018 Posted March 2, 2018 1 hour ago, Steiner said: How poor do work conditions and financial compensation have to be to warrant 4 people to say screw it? Bad enough to be trumped by camaraderie, friendship and a sense of allegiance to shared experience. High ideals, indeed, but you can't drive, live in, nor eat them!
heritagefan Posted March 3, 2018 Posted March 3, 2018 20 hours ago, Jim W said: Are we positive they had healthcare prior to Plazacorp? Yes
meng Posted March 3, 2018 Posted March 3, 2018 I'm sorry, I need to step in to correct this. There hasn't been healthcare since 2007/2008, providing health care benefits is something we've been working on.
deytookerjaabs Posted March 3, 2018 Posted March 3, 2018 3 hours ago, meng said: I'm sorry, I need to step in to correct this. There hasn't been healthcare since 2007/2008, providing health care benefits is something we've been working on. Hey, now that's what I call GOOD NEWS!!
meng Posted March 3, 2018 Posted March 3, 2018 I was asking Pete about this and my understanding is there was a Blue Cross scheme that was co-pay and deducted from paychecks back in the 90s but ended in the 00s.
Polo Posted March 3, 2018 Posted March 3, 2018 4 hours ago, meng said: I'm sorry, I need to step in to correct this. There hasn't been healthcare since 2007/2008, providing health care benefits is something we've been working on.
Gitfiddler Posted March 3, 2018 Posted March 3, 2018 19 hours ago, yoslate said: Bad enough to be trumped by camaraderie, friendship and a sense of allegiance to shared experience. High ideals, indeed, but you can't drive, live in, nor eat them! Well said, my brother...well said.
heritagefan Posted March 3, 2018 Posted March 3, 2018 7 hours ago, meng said: I was asking Pete about this and my understanding is there was a Blue Cross scheme that was co-pay and deducted from paychecks back in the 90s but ended in the 00s. That is not correct. I'm sorry. Pete wasn't with the company. Priority Health. Paid by Heritage.
StephenK Posted March 3, 2018 Posted March 3, 2018 Got to see several of the folks from Heritage and Former Heritage employees. today. Learned that Edwin was brought in to head the new Harmony Guitar project and will not be involved with Heritage for now. Heritage will not be moving back into the old space, Harmony Guitar will be occupying that space. Ren and the Green Valley Boys dedicated there show to all the former employees that where let go last week. Curley had been relieved of doing binding work several months ago and had been cleaning the air filtration system and shoving snow. He look shell shocked. He is going to pursue his decoy making and folk art. He needs help with technology and setting web page and such. If someone has his contact info please PM it to me. I will share with anybody that is will to lend him a hand. PM me. My wife was speaking with him today because she too is an artist and will help him find area shows but we forgot to get that from him. Arnie and sons are starting up a guitar company called Embers and hope to have 2-3 prototypes built for this summers HOC get together if that is happening. I was told BS on not having insurance. One last thing Edwin looked at the pile of guitar to be destroyed and said they had some minor tweaks to make them great instruments and that the QC was being to picky. Take that for what it is. That's all I can remember to share with the gang. Peace... PS Bill looks like he is enjoying semi-retirement he has grown a shaggy beard and was very laid back.
StephenK Posted March 3, 2018 Posted March 3, 2018 Last item. Heritage currently does not have anyone trained to hand roll necks. I suspect that will now be done by machine.
Steiner Posted March 3, 2018 Posted March 3, 2018 4 minutes ago, StephenK said: Last item. Heritage currently does not have anyone trained to hand roll necks. I suspect that will now be done by machine. I thought Arnire's departure was going to reverb strong. You've confirmed my suspicions. My best to the fallen.
Polo Posted March 4, 2018 Posted March 4, 2018 2 hours ago, heritagefan said: That is not correct. I'm sorry. Pete wasn't with the company. Priority Health. Paid by Heritage. On a scale of 1 to 10....how strongly do feel about the accuracy of the "Pete wasn't with the company" part of your statement?
bolero Posted March 4, 2018 Posted March 4, 2018 44 minutes ago, Polo said: On a scale of 1 to 10....how strongly do feel about the accuracy of the "Pete wasn't with the company" part of your statement? there is a lot of guitar building knowledge in that photo!!
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