Change at Heritage Guitar

[buzzy]

1 hour ago, StephenK said:

Last item. Heritage currently does not have anyone trained to hand roll necks. I suspect that will now be done by machine.

I've tried to stay neutral through most of this what I consider bad news

Egad, this may be the most unkindest cut of all 

[yoslate]

2 hours ago, StephenK said:

Last item. Heritage currently does not have anyone trained to hand roll necks. I suspect that will now be done by machine.

I won't do it justice, but one of the best stories I ever heard in that shop was Arnie talking about bugging Marv to teach him how to roll necks, and Marv finally giving in.  Marv asked Arnie what kind of neck profile...'58, '59, '60's, D, C whataya want?  Arnie said something, and Marv grabbed a chunk of scrap, and knocked it out , knocked several out, in short order.  Perfect.  Handed a piece of scrap to Arnie to have a go.  After any number of attempts, Arnie said he was basically left standing in a pile of toothpicks.

[FredZepp]

1 hour ago, Polo said:

On a scale of 1 to 10....how strongly do feel about the accuracy of the "Pete wasn't with the company" part of your statement?

I believe Pete started there in 1997  ... and he came back in 2013, but the amount of time that he didn't work there in between I don't know.   He did leave for a time.   I have no idea about what the health benefits were... 

[FredZepp]

11 minutes ago, yoslate said:

I won't do it justice, but one of the best stories I ever heard in that shop was Arnie talking about bugging Marv to teach him how to roll necks, and Marv finally giving in.  Marv asked Arnie what kind of neck profile...'58, '59, '60's, D, C whataya want?  Arnie said something, and Marv grabbed a chunk of scrap, and knocked it out , knocked several out, in short order.  Perfect.  Handed a piece of scrap to Arnie to have a go.  After any number of attempts, Arnie said he was basically left standing in a pile of toothpicks.

Yeah... the magic of using those old, fabled machines left behind by Gibson was part of the mystique of Parsons Street.   And the training to properly utilize those onerous mechanical behemoths was indeed, part of the Heritage of Kalamazoo. 

[heritagefan]

1 hour ago, Polo said:

On a scale of 1 to 10....how strongly do feel about the accuracy of the "Pete wasn't with the company" part of your statement?

 

10

[heritagefan]

1 hour ago, Polo said:

On a scale of 1 to 10....how strongly do feel about the accuracy of the "Pete wasn't with the company" part of your statement?

 

10

[heritagefan]

Lots of pictures were taken at the factory of people who didn't work there. I'm a solid 10 on the insurance issue too.

[High Flying Bird]

3 hours ago, Polo said:

On a scale of 1 to 10....how strongly do feel about the accuracy of the "Pete wasn't with the company" part of your statement?

 

I understand that Pete came and went a few times over the years.  I have never met him.  I have seen him once or twice, maybe around 2014 - 2016. 

[meng]

I'm surprised this is something up for dispute, but see the following article's last paragraph:

http://www.mlive.com/news/kalamazoo/index.ssf/2015/03/heritage_guitar_co_still_craft.html

I have no hesitation in correcting my previous statement regarding healthcare benefits as I just found out there was a special side-deal, not as a general policy which is what I was referring to - only two members of the team had healthcare benefits, of which Arnie was one of them, (his sons may have been covered as part of a family deal) that continued from before the change in ownership. Like I said, this is something we are working to correct so that everyone can have coverage.

I can't speak for exactly what was done before 2016 and whether there were other exceptions (but we are getting more details), but as you can see from the article above, Marv and Jim themselves state they hadn't been able to draw a salary since 2006.

FWIW, with regards to Arnie and his sons, I am genuinely sad that they chose to leave. It was never the intention for them to not be part of the team on the go-forward, but him and his sons were kind to me and I genuinely wish them every success in future endeavors and would not hesitate to show them (or anybody past, present, future involved with Heritage) support for their new business and next steps.

[Polo]

4 hours ago, heritagefan said:

10

 

4 hours ago, heritagefan said:

10

 

Sounds good. Gotcha down for solid 20. My work here is done. Is yours?

[LittleLeroy]

4 hours ago, High Flying Bird said:

I understand that Pete came and went a few times over the years.  I have never met him.  I have seen him once or twice, maybe around 2014 - 2016. 

Thanks for the pics.  

[LittleLeroy]

  On 2/26/2018 at 8:50 AM, heritagefan said:

No reason to curse anyone (whatever that means).  Heritage is a company.  The company makes a product.  The owners have a RIGHT to do with both as they please.  The public has a right to buy or not buy the product, or the lame PR piece it takes four hours to draft since you didn't anticipate the fall out or the blow back.  When you get rid of the workers who actually make the product, saying it was necessary for the financial well being of the company, but keep the 80 year old's who do nothing but allow you to market the company in a way you think will be helpful, people see through it.  When you own 49% of a huge and well respected rock and roll publication, and the purchase of an iconic company like Heritage  does not get mentioned in that publication, people notice.  When a company is sold and the culture changes in this drastic a manner, it is sad.  For the people who put their best years in to it, it is tragic.  The company is no longer an American owned company passing down the art of guitar craftsmanship to the next generation.  The last generation has  been fired.  It's now just a brand in the stable of a rich son of a successful businessman.  It may prosper, it may fail, but it will NEVER be Heritage again.  Some may truly like it better.  Some may stay loyal because the name lives on.  Adolphus Busch wouldn't recognize Bud Light.  He might call it piss.  But the name lives on........

my emphasis added.  

I was looking forward to making it up to K'zoo with a couple of my guitars to meet the guys that built 'em.  Maybe that could still happen, but it won't be at 225.  Being in Santa Fe makes it a long haul and PSP comes at a very busy time of year for my band; it's hard to get away then.  

I know the new owner(s) have the "right" to do with Heritage what they may, yet it saddens me the era of the hand-made Heritage is over.  I came late to Heritage and don't feel I can say I'm part of the "family" beyond owning a few and offering my 2¢ here.  But I have mighty respect for the people who were keeping the art alive at 225 and that's you folks on the Forum as well as the people who built my guitars.

[Heritage1970]

6 hours ago, LittleLeroy said:

 

 

I know the new owner(s) have the "right" to do with Heritage what they may, yet it saddens me the era of the hand-made Heritage is over.  

^^ Yep. ^^  My thoughts exactly. Everyone is entitled to their opinion, but mine is that I used to have a feeling that the workers that walked into Heritage felt that they HAD a "Heritage" to guard and continue. I just have a feeling now that it's all about $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ and how fast it can be made- no more long, time consuming things that are done by hand- workers may come and go, who cares- keep the costs down and the money coming in. Bring in the plant expansion with tourist traps galore, whatever it takes to make $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ as fast and easily as we can.....THAT'S the vibe I'm getting here....but again- just my opinion. 

[JorgeToo]

$10 an hour for craftsmen?  Are people building guitars at Heritage really only getting paid $10 an hour?  I find this hard to believe.

[heritagefan]

10 hours ago, Polo said:

 

 

Sounds good. Gotcha down for solid 20. My work here is done. Is yours?

I believe it is. It is all cleared up. The last paragraph in the cited article is a non sequitur.  Pete did not work for Heritage from 07 to 12. The original Heritage Inc. ALWAYS provided paid health insurance.  Marv and Jim, along with others, who were not million or billionaire's, worked for nothing and the company paid for healthcare for all who wanted it.  Marv, Jim, Bill, JP, Jack and Ren  worked while the factory  was closed in 07 to pay the premiums.  No side deals, and it was gone with the introduction of the new good ole boys.  And now we nit pick about when it was terminated and by whom. In the time it takes a billionaire to read these posts and respond, a portion of the interest he or she draws on his or her billions would cover a year of healthcare for all of his or her employees. 

Man, I'm getting old. I sound like Bernie Sanders.  I'll wrap it up.

The new owners can do WHATEVER they like with the company, the product and the employees. Welcome to America.  They cannot, however, change history. And, in my book, they cannot assume the mantle built by Marvin Lamb, James Deurloo, William Paige, the late great J.P. Moats, Lane, Ren, Jack, Tom, and too many  others, by purchase. You have to earn it. You don't earn it on a fan page, and you sure as hell don't earn it taking from the workers and firing those who flinch. Some of those workers offered to work for free to help save the company when it was on hard times. Now they are fired, or too disgusted to carry on. 

Good luck to the current, but most of all, former employees. You are worth more to the people who bought those guitars than you could ever be paid. Thanks for the math lesson, Polo.  I apologise for the double stop.  Guess I need a hobby. I'll just shut up and go play a guitar. Maybe the next great guitar will rise from the Embers of our charred American Heritage. Maybe Kalamazoo will rise again.  ☮️

[ElNumero]

22 hours ago, StephenK said:

Got to see several of the folks from Heritage and Former Heritage employees. today. Learned that Edwin  was brought in to head the new Harmony Guitar project and will not be involved with Heritage for now. Heritage will not be moving back into the old space, Harmony Guitar will be occupying that space. Ren and the Green Valley Boys dedicated there show to all the former employees that where let go last week. Curley had been relieved of doing binding work several months ago and had been cleaning the air filtration system and shoving snow. He look shell shocked. He is going to pursue his decoy making and folk art. He needs help with technology and setting web page and such. If someone has his contact info please PM it to me. I will share with anybody that is will to lend him a hand. PM me. My wife was speaking with him today because she too is an artist and will help him find area shows but we forgot to get that from him. Arnie and sons are starting up a guitar company called Embers and hope to have 2-3 prototypes built for this summers HOC get together if that is happening. I was told BS on not having insurance. One last thing Edwin looked at the pile of guitar to be destroyed and said they had some minor tweaks to make them great instruments and that the QC was being to picky. Take that for what it is.  That's all I can remember to share with the gang. Peace...  PS Bill looks like he is enjoying semi-retirement he has grown a shaggy beard and was very laid back.

Man, thanks for sharing that Stephen. Hope all is well with you and that you are enjoying that nice 535 you won last year!

[Hfan]

Bird, thanks for posting those pictures and for taking them and adding all the names. Pictures speak louder than words some times. Al those beautiful guitars and happy owners say quite a bit.

[ElNumero]

20 hours ago, yoslate said:

I won't do it justice, but one of the best stories I ever heard in that shop was Arnie talking about bugging Marv to teach him how to roll necks, and Marv finally giving in.  Marv asked Arnie what kind of neck profile...'58, '59, '60's, D, C whataya want?  Arnie said something, and Marv grabbed a chunk of scrap, and knocked it out , knocked several out, in short order.  Perfect.  Handed a piece of scrap to Arnie to have a go.  After any number of attempts, Arnie said he was basically left standing in a pile of toothpicks.

Neck Rolling for Dummies. Available from Amazon. 

[ElNumero]

15 hours ago, Polo said:

 

 

Sounds good. Gotcha down for solid 20. My work here is done. Is yours?

He's working on 30!!!

[Millennium Maestro]

A rainy day in the 'zoo

[bukmdano]

I hate to rain on anybody's parade who thinks this is going to turn out well but I don't see anything good coming out of this. 

During my working life (thank God I'm retired now) I went through a change in ownership at three different places where I worked.  All of them manufacturing companies--two machine tool companies and a company that manufactured industrial machine knives--and they all turned out the same way---BAD!!!  They get  "their people" running the company and all they really wind up doing is running the company into the ground.  Everyone one of these companies I referred to ultimately closed with the jerks who bought them putting the padlocks on the doors.

They all hand out the usual nonsense about things aren't going to change and before you know it everybody is either leaving because they can't take the new management anymore or are getting fired.  

My sister went through the same thing at the last place she worked for twelve years.  This company changed hands three times while my sister was employed .  And with each succeeding change of ownership, conditions got worse.  The office my sister worked at had over 200 employees when she first started.  When she retired there were barely 30 people left and then they shut the office up.  You know where better than half of the jobs went? INDIA!!!

The reason I bought these guitars ((I've got eleven-that's right ELEVEN!!!--four 157's, three 555's, two 525's,  a 575 and a Golden Eagle) is because of the dealer (Jay Wolfe) and the kind of company Heritage was prior to Archie & Jeff.  Now that 's all gone.  

So I be holding on to my Heritage guitars, because I don't believe there is going to be anything else to replace them. 

 

[LittleLeroy]

On 3/5/2018 at 12:25 PM, Millennium Maestro said:

A rainy day in the 'zoo

wonderful pic, Guy, thanks for sharing!   2017?

[kidsmoke]

10 hours ago, bukmdano said:

I hate to rain on anybody's parade who thinks this is going to turn out well but I don't see anything good coming out of this. 

During my working life (thank God I'm retired now) I went through a change in ownership at three different places where I worked.  All of them manufacturing companies--two machine tool companies and a company that manufactured industrial machine knives--and they all turned out the same way---BAD!!

This is the issue I keep returning to regarding the tenor of dialogue on the forum since the recent tumult...

My experience has been the exact opposite. I've been in manufacturing in the US for over 30 years. I've been through 2 ownership changes, and in each case, the business flourished in the wake of transition. 

Currently I work for an ALUMINUM company. 60 years in business. We changed owners last year. We're not laying off, we are giving raises, and shopping for sites in new states, in order to open the 2nd new facility in less than 24 months, and this is expansion at a molasses pace relative to sales growth.

THEREFORE, it is absolutely a certainty that the new Heritage is gonna totally kick ass. 

Do you see how ridiculous an assertion that is? My experience is just that. MY experience. To transfer it to this scenario is an empty exercise. So I haven't, not once, made claims about the certainty or even the probability of success by the new ownership, despite the overwhelming truth of my own experience. I've simply expressed empathy, optimism, and temperance. 

For those of you with different experience to be pessimistic makes absolute sense to me, but the certainty of failure, ill will and (maybe some missed these contributions by members here) damnation towards the new management is JUST as ridiculous, I feel.

The Heritage we knew and loved is gone. I'm disappointed. I'm disheartened at what appears to be a drastic redirect in the business model as laid out previously. I feel no sense of obligation to the the new Heritage. I'm hopeful it turns out GREAT and I'm completely open to the possibility it will. IF I were to decide I needed or wanted a brand new guitar, I won't NOT consider Heritage out of spite. They'll succeed or fail in my personal search based on the merits and provenance of their product. Period. All things being equal, I'd be rooting for them. I feel the same about Larrivée...I feel a personal connection to the people and the product. These recent events change that, but they don't eliminate it. 

 

 

[DetroitBlues]

2 hours ago, kidsmoke said:

This is the issue I keep returning to regarding the tenor of dialogue on the forum since the recent tumult...

My experience has been the exact opposite. I've been in manufacturing in the US for over 30 years. I've been through 2 ownership changes, and in each case, the business flourished in the wake of transition. 

Currently I work for an ALUMINUM company. 60 years in business. We changed owners last year. We're not laying off, we are giving raises, and shopping for sites in new states, in order to open the 2nd new facility in less than 24 months, and this is expansion at a molasses pace relative to sales growth.

THEREFORE, it is absolutely a certainty that the new Heritage is gonna totally kick ass. 

Do you see how ridiculous an assertion that is? My experience is just that. MY experience. To transfer it to this scenario is an empty exercise. So I haven't, not once, made claims about the certainty or even the probability of success by the new ownership, despite the overwhelming truth of my own experience. I've simply expressed empathy, optimism, and temperance. 

For those of you with different experience to be pessimistic makes absolute sense to me, but the certainty of failure, ill will and (maybe some missed these contributions by members here) damnation towards the new management is JUST as ridiculous, I feel.

The Heritage we knew and loved is gone. I'm disappointed. I'm disheartened at what appears to be a drastic redirect in the business model as laid out previously. I feel no sense of obligation to the the new Heritage. I'm hopeful it turns out GREAT and I'm completely open to the possibility it will. IF I were to decide I needed or wanted a brand new guitar, I won't NOT consider Heritage out of spite. They'll succeed or fail in my personal search based on the merits and provenance of their product. Period. All things being equal, I'd be rooting for them. I feel the same about Larrivée...I feel a personal connection to the people and the product. These recent events change that, but they don't eliminate it. 

 

 

... And I've been through two ownership changes... Nextel was bought by Sprint and MetroPCS that was bought by TMobile.  While the short term left me unemployed, each provided a new, better improvement on my career and financial well-being.  While at those moments in time, I hated losing my job, but looking back, they were all stepping stones to where I am today.  

I hope the new tariffs do not affect your company negatively Kip.

[kidsmoke]

5 minutes ago, DetroitBlues said:

I hope the new tariffs do not affect your company negatively Kip.

thanks DB, Initially, it cuts into our margins, our customers have no option as far as base materials go, so they're expecting a price increase on the horizon, and that will flow through the chain as you'd expect. The bigger issue is actually the damage it does to the domestic vendors. They are going to see a spike in demand, and not all will be able to meet that demand without some significant pains. Meanwhile, those consumers (our competitors) who have been purchasing exclusively offshore, go to the back of the line and risk having their entire operation delayed while they try to establish a domestic supply chain. Fortunately for every die we've sent offshore, we've sent one domestically as well. We simply need to navigate the spike is costs.

The estimates by the US Aluminum industry is for job losses in the 10's of Thousands. They begged for this administration abort this policy. Hopefully, all the experts are wrong. 

What would be exciting would be to be a tenured business professor right now. To have all these tangible catalysts changing so abrubtly, and to watch the ramifications and use them as teaching moments would seriously be a blast.