Change at Heritage Guitar

[Besty]

I just got a news letter for Reverb that said Gibson is facing major financial problems, now this. Have three Heritages will keep forever.

[deytookerjaabs]

Well, from following the Edwin Wilson era during Gibson Custom, the place kind of turned into a Les Paul factory. 

 

I guess that's what the people wanted. But, the "Heritage" of top notch high end carved tops sort of suffered/wained along with many other things, in my opinion, for the sake of selling 'burst clones by the thousands. Then look at what happened to the custom shop in 2017 once the market became beyond saturated, fraction of the production and firings left and right. 

 

I hope the plan isn't for Heritage to become an H-150 and H-535 factory with a redesigned headstock. Not that they aren't fine guitars, but what a watered down market it already is. It was a shame to read about the archtop postponement as I appreciated the old world attention to craftsmanship in the Jazz bodies as a flagship of what a good builder is capable of regardless of the rest of the lineup. 

 

If that is the aim, personally, I don't dig it. Gibson Custom thrives because they can literally clone 100k-300k 60 year old guitars at their discretion. If that's what I want, a clone, that's what I'll buy. Whereas, I've owned Heritage guitars in the past because they were less money and IMO, an equal value bringing their own flavor at a more player friendly price point. Now I can go buy a brand new R8 at 4k with a 15% off (sometimes more if ya haggle) coupon. 

 

If it's down to the 'burst clone with a different shape, and different name, and different headstock, versus the actual 'burst clone at similar price points, it's a no brainer. Now that I'm seeing H-150's at $2,500+ with no discount, they're about $1,000 off from the big G's custom shop where you can find plenty of discounts. Meanwhile, the H-150's drop by 50% when you drive one off the lot, boy that's a tough sell if that's what the future holds. 

 

[holyroller]

Love it, the old guys bought the company and made it into a great story ,handmade guitars 1 at a time. Then the torch was handed over to corporate and within months its turned to sht.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[rlinwood]

I was cut mid-December from my computer engineering career. The company was trying to survive in a struggling world market, I get that. Perhaps best to reserve comment on this until the facts are known. Sad about those that lost their jobs today, though... I can sure "feel their pain."

[meng]

Thank you for your patience and I am truly sorry for the delay in posting an update.

It was indeed a sad day at the plant today, as a result of difficult decisions that it was our responsibility as management to make for the stability and future of the team at 225.

I can't imagine how any of you who have been following and supporting the business might be feeling having heard the news, nor how those who still work at Heritage feel, having had to say goodbye to some friends colleagues, but it is all definitely incomparable to those who no longer work at 225 Parsons anymore. I hope that in sharing transparently why we had to make decisions and addressing immediately some outstanding concerns, that there will be a better understanding of what happened and why. 

I’d like to start by emphasising the core reason - our goal was and continues to be to return Heritage to a place of stability and sustainability.

Though this is a tough statement to stomach and seems hypocritical when former members of the team now have complete instability in their personal lives, there are still a lot of our treasured craftsmen and colleagues who continue to work at the factory. Instability and unsustainable business practice would ultimately over time result in everybody losing their jobs. 

As I shared in previous posts, we are really trying to look ahead at the next 5-10 years, and it was an essential decision to focus on improving the quality of our guitars - otherwise it would be impossible to compete in today’s market. However, the only way we could do this as a business and to keep producing custom guitars (plans for which I will be able to share soon) was to decide to make fewer guitars, and change the sales strategy for 2018. 

Some companies choose to solve their problems by lowering the quality of their instruments and force dealers to buy more at the same price, but this is not something we could accept or feel right doing because it is a downward spiral. Guitars are crafted works of art and should grow in value over time, like all the guitars historically built in 225 that we know and love - guitars that lose a huge amount of value the minute they leave the shop shows that the system is not working right. 

Making the decision to build fewer guitars than we were staffed up for, meant that there needed to be a reduction in workforce to right size the business and the reason it happened all at once was that we felt it was more respectful to do it all at once instead of unpleasantly over an extended time period like some other companies do. In truth, there was a greater reduction than expected. This was not by choice but there were some additional colleagues who chose to leave who we had hoped would have stayed, but it is important to reiterate that there are no further changes planned and the factory is now looking for replacements. 

You guys are right. This shit is sad. Unfortunately, the sad reality is that when running a business, management often has to choose between the lesser of two evils, and we had to decide to shed tears today instead of writing a eulogy tomorrow. 

The silver lining is now that we have a stable business and road ahead looks bright.

I hope this post helps in some way and I will continue to do my best to share transparently like this in the future unless you would prefer me not to. 

With respect, 
Meng

[pegleg32]

5 minutes ago, meng said:

Thank you for your patience and I am truly sorry for the delay in posting an update.

It was indeed a sad day at the plant today, as a result of difficult decisions that it was our responsibility as management to make for the stability and future of the team at 225.

I can't imagine how any of you who have been following and supporting the business might be feeling having heard the news, nor how those who still work at Heritage feel, having had to say goodbye to some friends colleagues, but it is all definitely incomparable to those who no longer work at 225 Parsons anymore. I hope that in sharing transparently why we had to make decisions and addressing immediately some outstanding concerns, that there will be a better understanding of what happened and why. 

I’d like to start by emphasising the core reason - our goal was and continues to be to return Heritage to a place of stability and sustainability.

Though this is a tough statement to stomach and seems hypocritical when former members of the team now have complete instability in their personal lives, there are still a lot of our treasured craftsmen and colleagues who continue to work at the factory. Instability and unsustainable business practice would ultimately over time result in everybody losing their jobs. 

As I shared in previous posts, we are really trying to look ahead at the next 5-10 years, and it was an essential decision to focus on improving the quality of our guitars - otherwise it would be impossible to compete in today’s market. However, the only way we could do this as a business and to keep producing custom guitars (plans for which I will be able to share soon) was to decide to make fewer guitars, and change the channel strategy for 2018. 

Some companies choose to solve their problems by lowering the quality of their instruments and force dealers to buy more at the same price, but this is not something we could accept or feel right doing because it is a downward spiral. Guitars are crafted works of art and should grow in value over time, like all the guitars historically built in 225 that we know and love - guitars that lose a huge amount of value the minute they leave the shop shows that the system is not working right. 

Making the decision to build fewer guitars than we were staffed up for, meant that there needed to be a reduction in workforce to right size the business and the reason it happened all at once was that we felt it was more respectful to do it all at once instead of unpleasantly over an extended time period like some other companies do. In truth, there was a greater reduction than expected. This was not by choice but there were some additional colleagues who chose to leave who we had hoped would have stayed, but it is important to reiterate that there are no further changes planned and the factory is now looking for replacements. 

You guys are right. This shit is sad. Unfortunately, the sad reality is that when running a business, management often has to choose between the lesser of two evils, and we had to decide to shed tears today instead of writing a eulogy tomorrow. 

The silver lining is now that we have a stable business and road ahead looks bright.

I hope this post helps in some way and I will continue to do my best to share transparently like this in the future unless you would prefer me not to. 

With respect, 
Meng

 

 

 

 

While I'm sure your post is well meaning, it leaves more questions than answers. Can you give us some detail about what you see is the future of the company? I think we all want to buy in to your vision, but we have no idea what it is. Help us out here.

[High Flying Bird]

18 minutes ago, meng said:

 

"As I shared in previous posts, we are really trying to look ahead at the next 5-10 years, and it was an essential decision to focus on improving the quality of our guitars ..."

When you fired those craftsmen you unzipped your pants and pissed all over one of the good things Heritage has stood for.  5 to 10 years?  You killed the mojo Friday morning.  I will never buy from you again.  Better quality?  That is a slap in the face of the people who made Heritage a great guitar brand. 

[PunkKitty]

This saddens me.

I'm worried for all of the master craftspeople that have lost their jobs. As someone who was unceremoniously thrown out of their career in their late 40's and had a lot of trouble finding my footing since, I can empathize with the employees. A few may be able to move to PRS or Collings, but that number will be very small. I fear that there aren't many options for the others.

One of the things that drew me to Heritage and the HOC was the sense of family. In many ways, I will miss the friendship of these people who took me in and shared their knowledge with me. Then they were kind enough to break bread with me and share their stories. I was working on saving up for a 535. I'm not sure I see the point of that anymore.

I understood why Marv and the others left. They had been at it for a long time. It was time for them to rest. I was uneasy when new management took over. I watched the changes cautiously and optimistically. As someone who lives with major depressive disorder, this was not easy for me. Still, I felt that I somehow had a personal connection to this company. I was looking forward to PSP so I could see what changes were happening. I now realize that the 2017 PSP may have been the last.

I hate to sound pessimistic, but it comes naturally to me. I was watching Gibson circling the drain for a long time. Now I realize that Heritage is likely joining them in the same sink. And I feel like my relationship with Heritage is coming to an end. 

 

[PunkKitty]

40 minutes ago, meng said:

Thank you for your patience and I am truly sorry for the delay in posting an update.

It was indeed a sad day at the plant today, as a result of difficult decisions that it was our responsibility as management to make for the stability and future of the team at 225.

I can't imagine how any of you who have been following and supporting the business might be feeling having heard the news, nor how those who still work at Heritage feel, having had to say goodbye to some friends colleagues, but it is all definitely incomparable to those who no longer work at 225 Parsons anymore. I hope that in sharing transparently why we had to make decisions and addressing immediately some outstanding concerns, that there will be a better understanding of what happened and why. 

I’d like to start by emphasising the core reason - our goal was and continues to be to return Heritage to a place of stability and sustainability.

Though this is a tough statement to stomach and seems hypocritical when former members of the team now have complete instability in their personal lives, there are still a lot of our treasured craftsmen and colleagues who continue to work at the factory. Instability and unsustainable business practice would ultimately over time result in everybody losing their jobs. 

As I shared in previous posts, we are really trying to look ahead at the next 5-10 years, and it was an essential decision to focus on improving the quality of our guitars - otherwise it would be impossible to compete in today’s market. However, the only way we could do this as a business and to keep producing custom guitars (plans for which I will be able to share soon) was to decide to make fewer guitars, and change the sales strategy for 2018. 

Some companies choose to solve their problems by lowering the quality of their instruments and force dealers to buy more at the same price, but this is not something we could accept or feel right doing because it is a downward spiral. Guitars are crafted works of art and should grow in value over time, like all the guitars historically built in 225 that we know and love - guitars that lose a huge amount of value the minute they leave the shop shows that the system is not working right. 

Making the decision to build fewer guitars than we were staffed up for, meant that there needed to be a reduction in workforce to right size the business and the reason it happened all at once was that we felt it was more respectful to do it all at once instead of unpleasantly over an extended time period like some other companies do. In truth, there was a greater reduction than expected. This was not by choice but there were some additional colleagues who chose to leave who we had hoped would have stayed, but it is important to reiterate that there are no further changes planned and the factory is now looking for replacements. 

You guys are right. This shit is sad. Unfortunately, the sad reality is that when running a business, management often has to choose between the lesser of two evils, and we had to decide to shed tears today instead of writing a eulogy tomorrow. 

The silver lining is now that we have a stable business and road ahead looks bright.

I hope this post helps in some way and I will continue to do my best to share transparently like this in the future unless you would prefer me not to. 

With respect, 
Meng

This is the kind of corporate doublespeak that I lived with for years.

This is not new. As a corporation, you hired new people with lower salaries and benefits, had the old people train the new people, then dumped the old people. This is a sad symptom of life in corporate America.

I'm not sure that I can support it anymore. 

[Genericmusic]

Welcome to the  New Gilded Age.

[skydog52]

3 hours ago, meng said:

However, the only way we could do this as a business and to keep producing custom guitars (plans for which I will be able to share soon) was to decide to make fewer guitars, and change the sales strategy for 2018. 

Wow!  Jim and Marv where on to something after all. Seems to me that's what they where doing.

In a few months it seems the sales strategy has changed 3 times.

[davesultra]

3 hours ago, PunkKitty said:

This saddens me.

I'm worried for all of the master craftspeople that have lost their jobs. As someone who was unceremoniously thrown out of their career in their late 40's and had a lot of trouble finding my footing since, I can empathize with the employees. A few may be able to move to PRS or Collings, but that number will be very small. I fear that there aren't many options for the others.

One of the things that drew me to Heritage and the HOC was the sense of family. In many ways, I will miss the friendship of these people who took me in and shared their knowledge with me. Then they were kind enough to break bread with me and share their stories. I was working on saving up for a 535. I'm not sure I see the point of that anymore.

I understood why Marv and the others left. They had been at it for a long time. It was time for them to rest. I was uneasy when new management took over. I watched the changes cautiously and optimistically. As someone who lives with major depressive disorder, this was not easy for me. Still, I felt that I somehow had a personal connection to this company. I was looking forward to PSP so I could see what changes were happening. I now realize that the 2017 PSP may have been the last.

I hate to sound pessimistic, but it comes naturally to me. I was watching Gibson circling the drain for a long time. Now I realize that Heritage is likely joining them in the same sink. And I feel like my relationship with Heritage is coming to an end. 

 

Very well put Monica, and I agree with your post 1000%+. My sympathies go out to those who were shown the door. And a huge thank you for making some spectacular instruments. I truly hope you all land on your feet.

They may have bought the name. But they can’t buy the mojo.

As for me, no longer a customer. Lots of great “Pre-Plaza” Heritage Guitars out there in the used market. 

 

[deytookerjaabs]

Heritage, for it's size, had a good variety of high end archtop models built to a certain tradition with the ability to customize them. That, along with the ability to do the same across the model range.

 

Now for the sake of "improving quality" you trim all the "fat," to which the variety was the spice of the company IMO, to improve the consistency in H-150's & H-535's to which I've never seen one in person that I found to be highly flawed. 

 

All the echo chamber internet claims of "perfect setup out of the box" and "impeccable fit and finish" is the work of folks who can't comprehend the fact that every piece of wood settles in when new and every guitar should be set up specifically for the user after purchasing.

 

If the aim was to build less guitars for the sake of quality I'd prefer to see the variety of high end guitars and the history in their lutherie preserved along with the few left who've been building them for decades. What I'm seeing is that concept of quality has been ripped to shreds and now we want to focus on "impeccable" hot sellers and by getting rid of everything else you're technically "building less guitars."     ...i.e. become a one dimensional factory aimed at the hot selling items. 

 

Believe it or not, there was a time when Archtop, Mandolin, and overall variety in old world instruments including flattops slowed to a trickle at Gibson. Meanwhile, they built more SG's, Les Paul's, and ES Semi Hollows than ever. But, TECHNICALLY they built less instruments, that was the 70's:

 

 

Wherein by '79 they produced less than they did in '59! The whole entire decade of the 70's featured far less production than their height in the 60's.

 

Heritage was a Gift in that the fellas could go back to building many of those treasured boxes from the 40's, 50's, & 60's on a consistent enough basis to keep them top shelf instruments while preserving tradition.

 

 

[Johnsonfromwisconsin]

I hate that people were let go, but I also live in Realville.  The guitar industry as a whole is one of the worst in which to make money.   We all want the best instrument at the lowest price.   At 225 Parsons with labor and overhead, a hand-crafted hollow body instrument costs $1500-2000 to MAKE (solid bodies $900-$1200).  To sell through dealers, you have to multiply the cost number by four (4) to derive a LIST price.  Granted, there are discounts.   Hence, offshore production.   With the exception of the very top of the premium market, guitarists/musicians as a whole are poor (sorry, just a fact) and so Heritage is forced to sell at the very tip of that market.   The NAMM distribution shows the vast majority of electric guitars sold (nearly 900,000 of about 1.2M total) are under $200.  SOLD!   In the segment Heritage plays in, premium, hand-crafted, ($1,600+) there are only about 23,000 sold annually in TOTAL.   Think about who else plays in that market, including an influx of premium micro-brews.  At their price/cost points, Heritage would have to produce nearly 4,000 guitars to have a thriving, profitable business given all the other constraints.   In a great year, they probably sell about 1,000.    The business model is doomed unless they can find a way to either increase prices to make more margin (how would y'all like that?), find a way to get better throughput (y'all hate that also), or try to produce and sell instruments that hit the lower-priced segments (y'all be happy with that one also).    Can't have it both ways.  The owners are not evil.  Respectfully submitted, let it play out. 

[Heritage1970]

I've heard this garbage my whole life- "live in "Realville", "we had to do what's best for the company"- it's all double talk for someone getting screwed (that's putting it mildly- I'm trying to keep it PG 13 here) - bottom line: Heritage was always a Company that had a Family vibe, they were different from the Corporate giants- now they're just like the rest, and that makes me pretty damn sad. From what I've heard, Heritage was not in a great place financially, when they were bought out, so I guess "they" came in and saved the Company - but the question is from what? I would have rather have seen Heritage just fade away and die a slow death than be slaughtered by Corporate giants. But...it's too late for that- everyone in "Realville" just woke up to find the Heart and Soul of Heritage has been F' ed.... I pray there is a way this will turn around, but sadly, I've seen this time and again and I don't have a good feeling that it will............

[buzzy]

Johnson, those facts aren't very comforting.

I got 'right sized' at 42.  To those that were canned, best wishes for a speedy recovery.

 

A new Heritage has been sour grapes for me due to a declining real wage and I guess I'll continue as a spectator.

[chico]

Thank you Meng for your explaination.

 

i will be watching with interest. I wish all the displaced the best. 

[JeffB]

 

Ten yrs ago it didnt take much to see this one coming. As each year passed it was less and less about "if" and more about "when"

The old owners and their crew were the Heritage. The day the original Heritage Inc was sold was the day Heritage Guitars was all over, for me anyway.

I havnt played guitar since early September but the only guitar out and ready to go in case I get an urge to play is my H150, and Im a strat player.

I can be emotionally invested in my H150, its mine, its a good guitar despite the couple of little faults built into it.

 

 

[Nova]

Long time lurker, but I created an account to comment. I own more guitars than any man deserves to own. Im lucky enough to be able to buy the nice things I want through my hardwork.

 I bought a new 2017 535, I wanted to support small town America, the craftspeople. I also wanted to support the new ownership with an open mind. I have tight ties to the area where they are built, even though Im on the east coast. I was more than happy to support Kalamazoos local econemy. 

This news isnt what I was sold by my dealer about the new ownership. We were actually in the process of ordering a custom 535 to be my backup. I read this late last night and requested my deposit back this morning.

As a business owner I understand you have to let people go and restructure, its the hardest thing in the world to do. However, I suspect this was the goal all along. At least the employees who were let go can collect unemployment benefits. To the ones who quit, loyalty to the guys next to you is the most important thing - I would have done the same.

My 2cents,

Nova

[Polo]

This is an undoubtably complex situation at any viewpoint. It's hard to envy anyone's position here. 

 

@Meng -  

While the majority of dialog here at the HOC is fairly cordial I can assure you that the general sentiment regarding the recent changes of Heritage Guitar is NOT nearly as positive here on the mean streets of Realville.  

You may want to light a fire under the marketing team to get this train-a-movin along with a useable website and a few well worded press releases to explain why the folks who might be interested in becoming a Heritage customer should be getting exited for what you guys are working towards.  

 

Best of luck to all involved.

 

 

[deytookerjaabs]

Jay's FB response:

 

As Heritage’s largest worldwide Customer/Dealer I was alarmed upon hearing they’d let go a dozen employees. The rumors are flying. So, I reached out to find out what’s up. I listened to explanations from Jim Duerloo, Archie Leach. They are OK with what has transpired and see no serious problem with continued Guitar building going forward. Jim felt they had way too many people anyway and Archie pointed out that the remaining shop staff is double what it was when he acquired the Company.

My observation is from a guy that receives and inspects more Heritages than anyone else, and what I’m witnessing is quite different than what some understandably unhappy former workers are saying. They’re saying that the new guys are lowering QC standards, but this is exactly opposite of what the new folks say and do. Heritage always made a solid and toneful Gibson style instrument BUT the fit, finish & especially the setups would vary from just pretty Okay to awful. These “old Gibson habits” and standards are a long standing and well known Kalamazoo standard. Wolfe Guitars has suffered with this shoddy Gibson style finishing for 3 decades and we learned early on to either return them or deal with it. We became really adept at correcting the many Kalamazoo glitches.

When Mr. Leach took over he vowed to do better, and he has repeated this mantra to me so many times. Has he delivered? YES, in a big way. Since he’s taken over we’ve seem BIG improvements in the new “bone” nut, vastly improved setup, vastly improved finish, and hardware fit. Still solid-toneful Gibson style instruments BUT they now look and play WAY better than before. WAY BETTER! Heritage are now delivering the absolutely finest Guitars ever, and no one knows this better than I.

So, why release a dozen workers? Archie has partnered with a large worldwide distribution Company- Bandlab, and those guys “insist” the QC MUST be even better! Archie agrees and told me the long time workers have resisted the changes and continued their old ways. This is unfortunate, but I support their herculean effort to make the “best Guitars to ever come from Kalamazoo.” Am I concerned? Just a bit, as I’ve seen the results of their efforts, and I believe they’ll get the job done. I will say this- the last few Guitars we’ve received are truly the finest I’ve ever seen & played from Kalamazoo, so the proof is here in my shop for anyone to see & play. Their intentions are good, so I will give them a chance and I hope you will too.

Sincerely,
Jay Wolfe, WOLFE GUITARS, Jupiter, Florida-USA 

[JeffB]

No doubt Jay has a lot of Heritage guitars in stock. A significant financial investment.

 

 

[111518]

I first became interested in Heritage guitars before I had seen a single instrument, when I read that a few managers and workers in K'zoo had refused to accept "corp-speak" that a guitar-making company could no longer survive (which, of course, really meant, "profits could not be maximized") in the unionized, old-school environment of Michigan and had to move to the cheap-labor world of Nashville.  I think I initially romanticized the degree to which Heritage really operated as a "worker controlled" company, but, my connection to Heritage remained to a company that survived, even if unevenly in terms of QC and profitability, by bucking the cheap-labor model and by maintaining the fellowship of the shop and the tradition of skilled work. 

Perhaps the former sometimes got in the way of the latter --fellowship outweighed the bottom line, and some human inconsistencies were tolerated that might not have been at other workplaces-- but then, it's  a lot easier to replace a poorly-cut string nut than to find anything to be proud of in a possession that was made by exploiting people.  I reject the morality or worth of "creative destruction" when what gets destroyed is peoples' lives. 

I write to applaud those workers who walked out rather than continue to work when their friends and coworkers were given the axe.  Those are the people that to me really represent the heritage that I valued and that made me proud to play and recommend the guitars.    

[bolero]

well it really sucks to login here today and read about this....

I feel for anyone who has been let out of a job

but I am not privy to any of the business info, that tough decisions needing to be made, are based on

was Heritage sustainable? I know they were trying to sell it for years and had no takers. that should tell us something right there

 

[houndhome]

I'm glad that I have the 5 Heritage guitars that I want.I dont see the way that the company is headed will give me the product that

attracted me until now.Such a shame.