deytookerjaabs Posted February 26, 2018 Posted February 26, 2018 When I first read about the sale I was surprised about the whole renovation of the factory aspect. "Wow, seems like a lot for such a small guitar company." Then, I saw the photos of the temporary factory, wow, again, seemed like overkill considering the size of Heritage, could build a lot of guitars there.... Read a bit more and saw they had a lot of commercial plans for the property. Cool, if they can pull it off, but still, Parson's is BIG. And, the Bandlab sale, really, all that for such a little guitar company?? These Real Estate folk and international investors must be have some serious plans for this to pay off... Meanwhile, Gibson sold it's Nashville Plant where they're now paying a lease on which expires in a few years. Gibson Memphis factory space is for sale too. Oh, then Heritage/Plazacorp/Bandlab hires former Gibson Custom Manager Edwin Wilson. Hey, a few days ago Bandlab buys Cakewalk from Gibson. It's just a theory, but..??? Where there's smoke.... I'm sure "officially there's no such plans" but that can't stop us from speculating and y'all know what the smokestack says.
FredZepp Posted February 26, 2018 Posted February 26, 2018 Wow... that's a thought provoking theory . Wouldn't that take the cake? It's the Memphis plant they've sold and they do claim to be moving to another spot in Memphis.. who knows? I haven't seen anything about changes in the Nashville plant.
FredZepp Posted February 26, 2018 Posted February 26, 2018 Although you are right they don't own the Nashville plant, though I haven't heard that they intend to move out.
deytookerjaabs Posted February 26, 2018 Author Posted February 26, 2018 Yeah, I didn't realize when I posted that Memphis was already sold too. So, they're leasing their space in both Nashville USA plant and the Memphis factory.
High Flying Bird Posted February 26, 2018 Posted February 26, 2018 3 hours ago, deytookerjaabs said: Oh, then Heritage/Plazacorp/Bandlab hires former Gibson Custom Manager Edwin Wilson. Hey, a few days ago Bandlab buys Cakewalk from Gibson. I thought the same damned thing when I heard the Gibson custom guy had come on board. I also agree with you about the quality control. I may not be that good of a guitar player so I don't have to "fret" over all of the tiny inconsistencies of a hand tooled piece. I hope lightning strikes that smoke stack and the bricks fall onto my beloved 225 Parsons. If it were not for the innocents nearby I would wish a tornado upon the whole building.
ShredAndDestroy Posted February 26, 2018 Posted February 26, 2018 1 hour ago, High Flying Bird said: I thought the same damned thing when I heard the Gibson custom guy had come on board. I also agree with you about the quality control. I may not be that good of a guitar player so I don't have to "fret" over all of the tiny inconsistencies of a hand tooled piece. I hope lightning strikes that smoke stack and the bricks fall onto my beloved 225 Parsons. If it were not for the innocents nearby I would wish a tornado upon the whole building. man you are out of control with these curses. the smoke stack has already been dismantled and 225 parsons has been falling apart slowly since before you had ever even heard of it. i remember the days when you could pick up a red brick from the ground outside the building and take it home as a souvenir. these new owners are trying to keep guitar manufacturing in kalamazoo and as a longtime resident i can appreciate that. no one person on this forum knows the whole story, so chill.
High Flying Bird Posted February 26, 2018 Posted February 26, 2018 7 minutes ago, ShredAndDestroy said: man you are out of control with these curses. the smoke stack has already been dismantled and 225 parsons has been falling apart slowly since before you had ever even heard of it. i remember the days when you could pick up a red brick from the ground outside the building and take it home as a souvenir. these new owners are trying to keep guitar manufacturing in kalamazoo and as a longtime resident i can appreciate that. no one person on this forum knows the whole story, so chill. Chill yourself. You don't know me. Have we ever met? As a long time resident of Kalamazoo why have you never bothered to show your face at the many of the PSPs I have been too? All of a sudden you are the champion of all things Kalamazoo? That ain't washing with me. Your word here has little merit.
ShredAndDestroy Posted February 26, 2018 Posted February 26, 2018 youre right, i dont know you and i apologize for telling you to chill. i have been to a couple of psps though.
High Flying Bird Posted February 26, 2018 Posted February 26, 2018 1 minute ago, ShredAndDestroy said: youre right, i dont know you and i apologize for telling you to chill. i have been to a couple of psps though. We are cool. Which psps did you attend? I used to do the group photo with the names of those in the photo and I don't recall your name.
ShredAndDestroy Posted February 26, 2018 Posted February 26, 2018 i was an employee from 2011 to 2016 and was able to make it to two psps. i do not remember which years. i was never in a group photo either. i typically avoided photos.
ShredAndDestroy Posted February 26, 2018 Posted February 26, 2018 2 hours ago, High Flying Bird said: I thought the same damned thing when I heard the Gibson custom guy had come on board. I also agree with you about the quality control. I may not be that good of a guitar player so I don't have to "fret" over all of the tiny inconsistencies of a hand tooled piece. I hope lightning strikes that smoke stack and the bricks fall onto my beloved 225 Parsons. If it were not for the innocents nearby I would wish a tornado upon the whole building. ya know bro, i just reread your o.g. post and im just gonna reiterate that you should chill. i live a few miles away from your "beloved building" and it was so windy here last night i thought my windows might explode. and like a block away for 225 its all flooded and people are having a real time so really you and everyone else, chill on the curses!
bolero Posted February 26, 2018 Posted February 26, 2018 I like Kalamazoo. I hope things there improve, for everybody! a while back I speculated that Gibson might buy Heritage and move their custom shop back to 225 Parson's. ( Back when Heritage was shopping for a new owner ) it would have been easier for Gibson to just buy Heritage, back then, I think? *edit* isn't leasing preferable to owning for manufacturing, as it's a recurring expense you can claim? Will? you're the accountant around here
kidsmoke Posted February 26, 2018 Posted February 26, 2018 yes, extremely common for manufacturing entities to avoid ownership of their facilities and lease instead. In fact you'll often find that the owners of a company also own a property, but they are distinct and separate business entities. And as has been mentioned hundreds of times for those who read, Heritage was never more than a tenant at 225, occupying a small part of the building with other active businesses leasing other parts. Plaza Corp bought the property and the guitar company, two SEPARATE purchases, with a vision of a destination, which would house a vibrant manufacturing concern, consistent with the properties history, and ALSO be a venue, drawing tourists to learn the history of instrument making in Kalamazoo, and enjoy the culture growing in that area. Not a terrible notion on the surface, and when you consider the alternative was that the core 4 walk away with little to show for a lifetime of labor, and shutter the place, and hope to get out before the bricks fall, I think it's great that they are able to leave with a check that honors their legacy, allows them some comfort while bouncing their grandkids on their knees... The fact that in the subsequent couple of years, the new ownership has sought to expand or shift it's plan, is not the original guys fault, and since I don't have exposure to the books, I'm hesitant to judge. A business must be profitable to survive. I for one am less cynical then many of my brothers here, and I can believe that there is yet a confluence of perpetuating "the Heritage" and making a buck. I'm sick about the good folks not going to work this morning. I hope they are able to find great new opportunities. ultimately, IF the new plan works, lots more folks in Kalamazoo will have jobs down the road. One step back to take two steps forward? We can hope. I'm certain that in the late 40's and 50's, the old timers that were at Parson's in the teens/20's were shaking their heads as dozens and dozens of women punched the clock, worked multiple shifts, they were laying train spurs and hiring fancy electrical engineers (Electrical Engineers?? For a guitar?!?!?) and lamenting the demise of the good ol' days when Lloyd toiled away in the corner. We look at the late 50's and 60's as the golden era, not so to it's precedent's. Change is inevitable. People are good. This CAN work out. We shall see. Have we yet coined a phrase for guitars that were built before Plaza Corp stepped up? Pre-Plaza?
davesultra Posted February 26, 2018 Posted February 26, 2018 I’ve been pimping the “Pre-Plaza era” monicker for a little while now, but as of yet nothing’s stuck.
davesultra Posted February 26, 2018 Posted February 26, 2018 9 hours ago, deytookerjaabs said: When I first read about the sale I was surprised about the whole renovation of the factory aspect. "Wow, seems like a lot for such a small guitar company." Then, I saw the photos of the temporary factory, wow, again, seemed like overkill considering the size of Heritage, could build a lot of guitars there.... Read a bit more and saw they had a lot of commercial plans for the property. Cool, if they can pull it off, but still, Parson's is BIG. And, the Bandlab sale, really, all that for such a little guitar company?? These Real Estate folk and international investors must be have some serious plans for this to pay off... Meanwhile, Gibson sold it's Nashville Plant where they're now paying a lease on which expires in a few years. Gibson Memphis factory space is for sale too. Oh, then Heritage/Plazacorp/Bandlab hires former Gibson Custom Manager Edwin Wilson. Hey, a few days ago Bandlab buys Cakewalk from Gibson. It's just a theory, but..??? Where there's smoke.... I'm sure "officially there's no such plans" but that can't stop us from speculating and y'all know what the smokestack says. One would/could wonder, if Meng is some kind of amazing billionaire brainiac, why not buy a struggling Gibson in lieu of The Heritage, which in comparison is fairly small potatoes? Would think the Gibson name has better money making potential.
deytookerjaabs Posted February 26, 2018 Author Posted February 26, 2018 Personally, if Gibson did come back, I'm sure they'd honor the Heritage years in some fashion. The alternatives could be a lot worse, no Heritage, no Parsons, and Gibson move to the whatever state gives it the next biggest tax break. Although I lament what I might see in the loss of how they build guitars over on Parsons (though if Gibson returns, and/or Heritage continues many of it's features, well the jury is still out) along with the fact that it's now just your traditional corporate atmosphere I don't really wish ill upon it's survival in the sense that guitar building could thrive at Parson's again. The investors/wealthy of the world and their execs are going to do everything they can to create wealth for themselves as they're literally hardwired to do it, which is their job IMO, and it's the rest of the people's job to make sure society as a whole doesn't suffer or wain too much because of it. There was a time in America when we all grew together, hopefully that spirit will come back one day. We've all got a job to do here.
kidsmoke Posted February 26, 2018 Posted February 26, 2018 There are also wealthy business people who like the idea of making a buck while doing something they enjoy, or think is cool. The notion that with capitol and planning, I could take the most romantic story in Rock n Roll, that being "the Heritage" and re-boot it, making it THE pre-eminent electric guitar, AND get a return on investment over years equal to a mid risk stock....how cool would that be? Let's see....I love the whole American rock n blues/Allman/Page/King(s)/Les Paul $300,000.00 holy grail guitar schtick. I have an international music retail network I have capital I can risk While my buddies are drag racing their Koenigsegg's in Dubai, I get to get my hands dirty building some truly amazing. I have a project. I can't tell you how many times when fantasizing about how I'd spend my lottery winnings, I thought about buying Heritage! Be the guy to turn it around. Why? Why work so hard? With that much money I don't need to work at all. But my family goes back 150 years in the area, I love guitars. I love the idea of a legacy. I want to leave a mark. Why is it so impossible to think that there could be legitimately positive intent here. I assure you, there are not untold millions on the table to the crafty corporate raider that outsmarts his partners. This is a little company in a struggling industry, and these folks could be spending their time and money elsewhere with a greater likelihood of return for a lot less headache. For that reason I believe that their hearts as well as their wallets are involved, and for THAT reason, I'm willing to wait and see.
ElNumero Posted February 26, 2018 Posted February 26, 2018 7 hours ago, High Flying Bird said: I thought the same damned thing when I heard the Gibson custom guy had come on board. I also agree with you about the quality control. I may not be that good of a guitar player so I don't have to "fret" over all of the tiny inconsistencies of a hand tooled piece. I hope lightning strikes that smoke stack and the bricks fall onto my beloved 225 Parsons. If it were not for the innocents nearby I would wish a tornado upon the whole building. Terrible Ron, just terrible!
Rod Posted February 26, 2018 Posted February 26, 2018 We all have a high degree of respect for the original owners of Heritage and an appreciation for what that company represents (represented?). I've never been to the plant, never been to PSP, and live 800 miles away from Kalamazoo, so my connection is admittedly less personal than many of you. Heritage, under the previous ownership, was perhaps the last tactile remnant of the most revered time and place in electric guitar building history. I get it. We all knew that the original owners could not be around forever. We all hoped that they would be able to sell the business instead of just walking away. That has happened. Not only did we know that there had to be an ownership change, we knew that Heritage could not continue on the same path and survive. Regardless of who bought it, they'd have to figure out a way to make a profit. Apparently, about half the employees are gone. Perhaps we should not overlook the fact that half are still there. I had the feeling that Heritage was headed toward shuttering the factory and auctioning off the old equipment. If that is where it was headed, Bandlab knew it when they bought it. They could have waited and bought it, I assume, for less than they paid, and everybody would have lost their jobs in the interim. Certainly, the old Heritage is pretty thoroughly gone. We are lucky to own some of the pre-whatever guitars. In deference to my Southern brethren, "Old times there are not forgotten", but change was inevitable. Life expectancy, OSHA, competition, changing musical tastes, and a whole list of other factors brought Heritage to where it is today. I figure if I bought it, or if any of us bought it, we would have been forced to do the same things. I'm surprised that classism has been a part of this discussion and I don't think it's relevant. Where it goes from here is anybody's guess. Ever since I heard about making the old factory a "destination" with restaurants and such, I've been reminded of the Gibson mandolin and banjo production shop that used to be in Opry Mills Mall in Nashville. If it ended up that this is what it turned out to be... A few people building a few exquisite guitars on the old equipment using the old methods, while patrons of restaurants and other businesses at 225 Parsons St. looked on through a glass wall... Clearly not the old Heritage. A remnant of it, in fact. But, if it pays homage to the Parson's Street facility and to the people of Gibson and Heritage who poured their heart into it, that's a lot better than another sad shuttered old factory to me.
Polo Posted February 26, 2018 Posted February 26, 2018 2 hours ago, kidsmoke said: There are also wealthy business people who like the idea of making a buck while doing something they enjoy, or think is cool. The notion that with capitol and planning, I could take the most romantic story in Rock n Roll, that being "the Heritage" and re-boot it, making it THE pre-eminent electric guitar, AND get a return on investment over years equal to a mid risk stock....how cool would that be? Let's see....I love the whole American rock n blues/Allman/Page/King(s)/Les Paul $300,000.00 holy grail guitar schtick. I have an international music retail network I have capital I can risk While my buddies are drag racing their Koenigsegg's in Dubai, I get to get my hands dirty building some truly amazing. I have a project. I can't tell you how many times when fantasizing about how I'd spend my lottery winnings, I thought about buying Heritage! Be the guy to turn it around. Why? Why work so hard? With that much money I don't need to work at all. But my family goes back 150 years in the area, I love guitars. I love the idea of a legacy. I want to leave a mark. Why is it so impossible to think that there could be legitimately positive intent here. I assure you, there are not untold millions on the table to the crafty corporate raider that outsmarts his partners. This is a little company in a struggling industry, and these folks could be spending their time and money elsewhere with a greater likelihood of return for a lot less headache. For that reason I believe that their hearts as well as their wallets are involved, and for THAT reason, I'm willing to wait and see. Very nice Kip!! You sir are an absolute treasure to the HOC community.
Spectrum13 Posted February 26, 2018 Posted February 26, 2018 3 hours ago, Rod said: Where it goes from here is anybody's guess. Ever since I heard about making the old factory a "destination" with restaurants and such, I've been reminded of the Gibson mandolin and banjo production shop that used to be in Opry Mills Mall in Nashville. If it ended up that this is what it turned out to be... A few people building a few exquisite guitars on the old equipment using the old methods, while patrons of restaurants and other businesses at 225 Parsons St. looked on through a glass wall... Clearly not the old Heritage. A remnant of it, in fact. But, if it pays homage to the Parson's Street facility and to the people of Gibson and Heritage who poured their heart into it, that's a lot better than another sad shuttered old factory to me. If this was a Hallmark movie they would make 225 Parsons street into a colonial Williamsburg.
Rod Posted February 26, 2018 Posted February 26, 2018 Guess it does kind of sound like that! Not exactly what I had mind, though. At the time that Gibson had the mandolin shop at Opry Mills (mid 80's?) I'd never seen a shop where any musical instrument was made. I thought it was pretty cool. The people who worked there might have felt a little like they were in a zoo, but you couldn't tell it. By all appearances they went along doing their various jobs building mandolins and banjos. It was just a production shop with windows. If they're going to make a "destination" centered around a guitar factory, and they're proud of what they're doing, seems natural that they'd let the public look inside. Now, though, every time I think of them doing that at Heritage I'll think of Colonial Williamsburg or Silver Dollar City! Kind of ruined it for me.
chico Posted February 26, 2018 Posted February 26, 2018 17 hours ago, deytookerjaabs said: When I first read about the sale I was surprised about the whole renovation of the factory aspect. "Wow, seems like a lot for such a small guitar company." Then, I saw the photos of the temporary factory, wow, again, seemed like overkill considering the size of Heritage, could build a lot of guitars there.... Read a bit more and saw they had a lot of commercial plans for the property. Cool, if they can pull it off, but still, Parson's is BIG. And, the Bandlab sale, really, all that for such a little guitar company?? These Real Estate folk and international investors must be have some serious plans for this to pay off... Meanwhile, Gibson sold it's Nashville Plant where they're now paying a lease on which expires in a few years. Gibson Memphis factory space is for sale too. Oh, then Heritage/Plazacorp/Bandlab hires former Gibson Custom Manager Edwin Wilson. Hey, a few days ago Bandlab buys Cakewalk from Gibson. It's just a theory, but..??? Where there's smoke.... I'm sure "officially there's no such plans" but that can't stop us from speculating and y'all know what the smokestack says. This was my thought all along with the Plaza purchase of Parsons St. It makes so much sense. If there was any legacy of the guys that spared that block from just another urban decay by making guitars in the basement for thirty years the ultimate one IMO would be to see the brand Gibson back where it belongs--Kalamazoo--because they (the pre Plaza peeps) kept the flame alive. Now it's a new day, with new owners and a new vision. It's sad when humans are affected by this negatively of the last few days. Things could have been handled differently but here in Madison the sun it out, it's 50 degrees, the birds are singing, and I'm still drawing a breath. Lots to be thankful for. Now, when I look back at those years we all admired the stick-to-it attitude of the principals and former G employees who were toiling away I thank them for not giving up the ghost of Orville. Now, bring G back to Kzoo where it belongs Meng and incorporate the Heritage into the history. Thank you.
Kuz Posted February 26, 2018 Posted February 26, 2018 -I don't know what the finacial situation was for the original owners at the time they sold the company. -I guess what I am saying is, did they have a choice; 1) Sell the company because they had to due to financial reasons with the HOPE that their great legacy would live on. or 2) Give everyone a decent severance on Thursday and then close the doors forever Monday morning. -----I am on the record for saying, and I believe posting here on the HOC as well...... My greatest wish for the Heritage Guitar Company owners would have been a day that I called at 7:30 AM EST and instead of Ren picking up the phone there was a new cassette recorder voice message from Ren saying, "After nearly 35 years of making your dream guitars we decided to not make them anymore. We are all permently out hunting or fishing. Thanks for you business." ------- to me that would have been the way to got out!! But I don't know if the owners needed the money when they sold off......
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