Support the brand

[Blunote]

Some of you may think I’m new since I haven’t been around for much of the last couple of years.  Regardless, I do check in from time to time to see how things are going with my old friends and fellow Heritage enthusiasts.  Except for a few brief upsets, the HOC has been a remarkably amicable place to exchange ideas, even when our opinions differed.  The general consensus was the HOC was a place to foster relationships and spotlight the Heritage brand.  Our moderators encouraged, and sometimes enforced civility on the rare occasion where tempers flared or when it was feared the brand was being poorly represented. 

And that’s the other part of it: There was always an imperative to represent the Heritage brand in a positive manner.  I suspect that helped the company survive through these declining years in the guitar industry.  I’m guessing that enthusiasm for the company’s product helped the former owners attract new management who believe the brand could flourish and have a sustainable future.

To that end, the new owners have invested a lot of money, time and energy to make the kinds of changes they believe are necessary to attract new customers, and more importantly, for the company to thrive.  We have to remember that it wasn’t our money that’s at risk here.  It wasn’t even the employees’ investment. Sure, they are stakeholders, but their homes and futures weren’t mortgaged in order to afford the company this opportunity for new life.

I grew up in a home where my father struggled daily to keep a business viable.  There were months he couldn’t draw a paycheck for himself, but always made payroll for his employees –even if he had to draw against equity in our house to do so. Having read that the previous owners have been unable to draw salaries for years, I can imagine what they sacrificed for their customers and employees; and that’s not a business model that can survive.

From what I’ve read here, the new management seems committed to remaking the Heritage Guitar Company.  If long-term employees couldn’t commit themselves to the changes these new owners are making, then they really needed to find another company to work for, rather than to expect Management to adopt business practices that couldn’t succeed in today’s marketplace.  It's always sad when people loose their jobs, but sometimes it's the best thing for not just the company, but also the employee.

And lets remember the Heritage Guitar Company is a business.  It is not a family.  Whatever affection or fondness we have for former and current employees need to be regarded as separate to the running of the company.  To any current employees reading this, I would tell them to get on board and do their best to achieve management’s goals.  Profit isn't a dirty word.  If the company succeeds, so will you.

Going forward, I hope to not see further harsh judgments directed at the new management team.  They’re simply doing what they feel they have to do.  I also appreciate their outreach to the HOC.  Meng has tried to explain these changes, and respect HOC member concerns in several recent threads.  I applaud that, but unfortunately, he’s been treated disrespectfully.  That’s not the HOC I remember.

[deytookerjaabs]

51 minutes ago, Blunote said:

Profit isn't a dirty word.  If the company succeeds, so will you.

 

 

 

Well, that's the biggest lie in history.   

 

 

[schundog]

Very jaded 2nd post, as has been your MOA through this whole thing; that, paired with your user name, makes me wonder from what money-grubbing, no longer needed labor union you drank the kool-aid. Like it or not, Bluenote's post is right n the money. Capitalism isn't always evil, and should new owners continue the model of not drawing a paycheck for themselves??  They didn't buy it to NOT turn a profit. 

I don't know the full details, and neither does anyone else here. I just am getting kind of tired of the rants against new ownership being the devil.  The total truth is probably somewhere in the middle of everyone's perceptions. 

[deytookerjaabs]

Sure, you can do better when your company does better, the opposite can & does happen all the time too.

 

The absolutist stuff is crazy. It's not one way or the other, no one has to "support the brand" and no one has to get out the pitch forks either, you should take in everything you hear/see/read and make up your own mind. But, the idea that if the company has a great year the employees will too is total rubbish, it's possible, but not an absolute. 

 

As for your wankery labor union comment, never been in a labor union yet though I might be fixin' to join the local '257. 

 

[rwinking]

6 hours ago, Blunote said:

 Sure, they are stakeholders, but their homes and futures weren’t mortgaged in order to afford the company this opportunity for new life.

Am I wrong or are the new owners fairly wealthy? I don't think they will be in danger of losing their homes if the new company goes tits up. However the employees that worked there for years could easily lose their homes.

Capitalism isn't bad. Unbridled capitalism is. There has to be a balance where the capitalists can't use the poor to get what they want or gamble with the money of the poor, lose it and then come out clean themselves. Maybe this thread needs to be in another spot?

[davesultra]

Meng is wealthy beyond belief, and I don't have an issue with that. I'm sure he's not worried about making his next mortgage payment. What new ownership decides to do is their own business. I know, people don't go into business to not make profits, that is understood. However, all the aspects that made The Heritage what it was are now gone (if you've ever walked into 225 PS during the Golden era, you'll know what I mean). If you're going to bring in CNC machines (and I don't care what operations they are brought in to do) in order to cut corners, you go against the tradition of The Heritage. The Heritage was not just another guitar factory with the primary concern being maximizing profits & productivity, that's what made it magic. Now the magic is gone. 

[bolero]

I agree

with the OP

if their plans for 225 go through

it's good for all of Kalamazoo

[schundog]

I didn't say I was crazy about it; I agree with DavesUltra, Bolero AND Bluenote. True or not, Meng said in another thread that CNC machines were NOT currently being installed at Heritage, save for the Plek machine. 

[tbonesullivan]

Time will tell how things turn out.

I will say that Meng posting here is something he didn't have to do. They have been trying to be transparent and informative, and they get crapped on by people with snarky usernames all day. I'm starting to wonder why I even bother posting here anymore.

[kidsmoke]

7 minutes ago, tbonesullivan said:

Time will tell how things turn out.

I will say that Meng posting here is something he didn't have to do. They have been trying to be transparent and informative, and they get crapped on by people with snarky usernames all day. I'm starting to wonder why I even bother posting here anymore.

this

[deytookerjaabs]

Plek = Good

Health Care = Good

Building a sustainable company so they can hire more folks in the future = Good

 

It's okay to be an adult here and feel good about some things while feel pointing out the drawback of other things....keeps us separate from the robots y'know. Sometimes I wonder how certain folks made it through high school if these rather banal discussions are so utterly traumatic. 

[rockabilly69]

14 hours ago, deytookerjaabs said:

 

 

 

Well, that's the biggest lie in history.   

 

 

Well I'll tell you what isn't a lie.... If the company fails, so does all the employees!

[ElNumero]

13 hours ago, bolero said:

I agree

with the OP

if their plans for 225 go through

it's good for all of Kalamazoo

I agree with Bluenote. And I also agree with Shundog regarding all of  the  "I know it all" comments made. Lets give the company a chance to see what they can do and be respectful in the meantime.

[Gitfiddler]

6 hours ago, rockabilly69 said:

Well I'll tell you what isn't a lie.... If the company fails, so does all the employees!

Perspective.

 

[pegleg32]

Well said Blunote.

[DetroitBlues]

Just to add to Blunote's remarks (thank you for starting this thread Alan)

With some of these newer members coming out of the woodwork, there is more emotion in everyone's tone in the recent weeks by both old and new members.

There is a lot of upset people, but no company has ever had people happy to be laid off.  It never bodes well.

I'm not about to question the why's, the what if's, or any other decision because there is nothing I can do about it.

Everyone here has an opinion and if anyone shows any sort of support of the Factory, others are quickly to jump on them.

Please don't do it.  Be civil, be polite.  No name calling, no menacing or threatening words are necessary.

This forum is a good place.  There are good people here.  There are good people still at the factory.  They are working scared right now.  News like this shakes up everybody.

The one constant in life is change; sometimes for the best sometimes for the worse.

So we adapt, improvise, overcome.  Life goes on. 

The sun will rise again tomorrow even if we don't.

Its just the way it is; the whole circle of life theme.

I'm looking forward to PSP not because I'm sharping my pitchfork or oiling my torches to raid the factory, but I get to see most of you again. 

Its the one time of year I can really geek out about guitars and play in a judgement free zone.

I've been trying to find different subjects to post here lately just to get our collective minds off current events so we can be more at ease with each other.

 

[deytookerjaabs]

There are no rules to "fall in line" and create a safe space, but if that's what the voters vote then so be it. 

 

I, for one, cannot think of one instance in the past where a company laid off a group of people then turned around and scrutinized/blamed those very people for being laid off. Regardless of the actual circumstances behind the matter, I still can't fathom why anyone would find that an honorable or professional move by any management team, let alone a freshman in semester uno of public relations 101. It's literally the opposite of every statement I can ever recall reading after hearing about folks being let go. Heck, it's practically unprecedented. 

Then, shockingly, some of the fanatics/consumers react with their own scrutiny and it's "support the brand," "know it alls," "go back to yer labor union," Yikes. At least when Kafka put it all on the board you felt like there was some logic behind the duplicity. Especially when "they're not family." Wow.....

 

I see a manufacturer, like anyone else in business, as an entity subject to praise and scrutiny where it fits.

 

 

[Polo]

Nicely put Josh!

In the interest of both supporting the brand as well as switching gears a bit I'd highly recommend that anyone here who has yet to visit the actual Bandlab platform do just that and give it a try.

https://www.bandlab.com/

It's actually a very cool and surprisingly powerful music making tool that requires no cumbersome downloads or installs.

Think GarageBand meets SoundCloud meets Facebook. 

A perfect platform for long distance collaborations. Hint Hint.

 

 

 

[kidsmoke]

42 minutes ago, deytookerjaabs said:

I, for one, cannot think of one instance in the past where a company laid off a group of people then turned around and scrutinized/blamed those very people for being laid off.

I have not seen the company blaming any former employees for anything. THIS is my point. In your effort to enlighten the rest of us on the vast complexities which we're clearly too daft to comprehend, you enter misinformation into the dialogue, that if not immediately challenged, later becomes part of the narrative (and then, may still). I will again encourage you to try to limit your assertions so they are either fact based or clearly opinions. 

The statement Meng shared regarding the decisions made did not blame anyone. And for reference, Arnie and 3 other guys walked of their own accord, meaning the mgmt team WANTED 4 guys steeped in the old methods - one of which with seniority and credibility on par with few in that building - to be part of the future. Saw his skill set as the building blocks of the next chapter. That completely flies in the face of the narrative that has spun out of control on this forum in the last couple of days, and it's corroborated by Arnie and Meng. 

It's not "fall in line". It's check your tone... and the facts. Spirited debate, among friends, is a wonderful thing and won't ever be discouraged here. 

[tbonesullivan]

Where's Jack Baruth when we need him.

[JeffB]

9 minutes ago, tbonesullivan said:

Where's Jack Baruth when we need him.

Dunno, maybe try saying his name 3 times.

[tulk1]

18 minutes ago, kidsmoke said:

meaning the mgmt team WANTED 4 guys steeped in the old methods - one of which with seniority and credibility on par with few in that building - to be part of the future. Saw his skill set as the building blocks of the next chapter.

This ^^^ may be one small part of the puzzle that many are missing. Given time many will start to see this bit.

Right now, tho', the hurt is new. And to the many that absolutely worshiped the elders, it's deep.

[davesultra]

48 minutes ago, JeffB said:

Dunno, maybe try saying his name 3 times.

[deytookerjaabs]

55 minutes ago, kidsmoke said:

I have not seen the company blaming any former employees for anything. THIS is my point. In your effort to enlighten the rest of us on the vast complexities which we're clearly too daft to comprehend, you enter misinformation into the dialogue, that if not immediately challenged, later becomes part of the narrative (and then, may still). I will again encourage you to try to limit your assertions so they are either fact based or clearly opinions. 

The statement Meng shared regarding the decisions made did not blame anyone. And for reference, Arnie and 3 other guys walked of their own accord, meaning the mgmt team WANTED 4 guys steeped in the old methods - one of which with seniority and credibility on par with few in that building - to be part of the future. Saw his skill set as the building blocks of the next chapter. That completely flies in the face of the narrative that has spun out of control on this forum in the last couple of days, and it's corroborated by Arnie and Meng. 

It's not "fall in line". It's check your tone... and the facts. Spirited debate, among friends, is a wonderful thing and won't ever be discouraged here. 

 

Okay, you're right. Though I think you're misinterpreting my actual tone, lol. 

But, from a distance, when they got laid off and the coinciding company statement read "in our commitment to improve quality" towards the end (or something like that, which you interpret as a core value, which is logical too) along with Jay's statement about "fit and finish varied from okay to awful" I think HOC'ers here, along with some of those employees, certainly interpreted it differently as did I. Even though, like you imply, that wasn't the intent. 

That started a whole other storm in and of itself IMO. 

I looked back the other night at all sorts of older (pre '15/'16) but relevant threads on TGP and a few other sites along with publications, many with fellas who post here, and in quick skimming mountains of comments I didn't see one negative mention regarding QC!! Glowing praise, over and over, and over. There were a couple negative comments, but we all know what those are..lol. 

Personally, when I gave lessons at a former dealer who I helped convinced to take on Heritage (after they sold me a used H-150, at cost!) we didn't have a huge buy in but maybe it was about 10 guitars over a period of time. Not one issue IIRC, in my years as a musician most of the guys I've ever talked to about Heritage had nothing but praise, and I certainly never saw any issues even if they exist. Now, after this storm, all these people "Yeah, the QC was really bad..." as if it was just a well known thing in the guitar community all along?

 

 

 

[Polo]