A test of PATIENCE! Rewiring the H535.

[TalismanRich]

WAY BACK in 2016, Sheptone had a good black Friday sale and I ordered a set of Tributes with short legs, non aged nickel covers to put in the 535.    Unfortunately, it took a several months for them to ship, so they got put on the shelf until I got back into the mood of working on guitars instead of playing them.

For the past several months, Ive been playing the 140, 157, acoustics and the Strat, but not the 535.   

This week, I pulled out the 535 after about 3 or 4 months in the case.   Its was in sorry shape!   The truss rod needed almost a 1/3 of a turn to get it back to decent action,  the switch is cutting out in the middle position,   the neck volume control is scratchy and the jack was even cutting out some.   The strings are probably a year old.   Down to the workbench it went.   About 2hours later,  I have the wiring harness on the bench.   Now I remember why I didn't jump right at putting the Sheptones in.  

I HATE REWIRING SEMIHOLLOW GUITARS!

Now its all out, and I need to assess the job.   I've ordered a roll of new braided wire.   I already have a new switch and some new pots,  but the last ones I bought were CTS Vintage Taper and I really didn't like them for the tone controls in the 157.   The 30% taper seems too subtle on the tone control, although its great on the volume.   I'll probably just pick up some audio taper pots at the local store.    I've got some Mojo Dijons to put in.   The jack looks ok, but I might pick up a new one instead of just tightening the old one.   The Tributes are already mounted in new pickup rings ready to reassemble.

Things are at a standstill for a few days while I wait for the new parts to arrive.   The goal is to do this job once and NEVER EVER do this again!  NEVER, NEVER, NEVER, NEVER again!

 

Next time I want to rewire something I'll pull out a Strat, unscrew the pickguard and rebuild the whole thing in 30 mins!

 

..... to be continued!

[Yooper]

I admire your gumption.

And I learned to not emulate it. 

[davesultra]

1 hour ago, TalismanRich said:

WAY BACK in 2016, Sheptone had a good black Friday sale and I ordered a set of Tributes with short legs, non aged nickel covers to put in the 535.    Unfortunately, it took a several months for them to ship, so they got put on the shelf until I got back into the mood of working on guitars instead of playing them.

For the past several months, Ive been playing the 140, 157, acoustics and the Strat, but not the 535.   

This week, I pulled out the 535 after about 3 or 4 months in the case.   Its was in sorry shape!   The truss rod needed almost a 1/3 of a turn to get it back to decent action,  the switch is cutting out in the middle position,   the neck volume control is scratchy and the jack was even cutting out some.   The strings are probably a year old.   Down to the workbench it went.   About 2hours later,  I have the wiring harness on the bench.   Now I remember why I didn't jump right at putting the Sheptones in.  

I HATE REWIRING SEMIHOLLOW GUITARS!

Now its all out, and I need to assess the job.   I've ordered a roll of new braided wire.   I already have a new switch and some new pots,  but the last ones I bought were CTS Vintage Taper and I really didn't like them for the tone controls in the 157.   The 30% taper seems too subtle on the tone control, although its great on the volume.   I'll probably just pick up some audio taper pots at the local store.    I've got some Mojo Dijons to put in.   The jack looks ok, but I might pick up a new one instead of just tightening the old one.   The Tributes are already mounted in new pickup rings ready to reassemble.

Things are at a standstill for a few days while I wait for the new parts to arrive.   The goal is to do this job once and NEVER EVER do this again!  NEVER, NEVER, NEVER, NEVER again!

 

Next time I want to rewire something I'll pull out a Strat, unscrew the pickguard and rebuild the whole thing in 30 mins!

 

..... to be continued!

I learned the hard way, and now I make sure I like the sound I get out of a semi-hollow guitar. After re-wiring more than a few, I don’t want to go down that road again!!!

[TalismanRich]

Just to throw a wrinkle into the mix,  I ran by Uncle Sams Jamms to pick up the extra parts and they were CLOSED!    It looked like a construction crew was ripping out the insides, so I guess we can write off another small business.    I'll have to check a couple of other locals to see if they have what I need.

Bummer, eh?

[FredZepp]

Sheptone Tributes should be a thing of beauty in a 535 !   

 

[pressure]

As long as your in there maybe get one of those new double contact input jacks Heritage is putting in all their guitars.

[bobmeyrick]

On 6/19/2018 at 4:18 PM, TalismanRich said:

I HATE REWIRING SEMIHOLLOW GUITARS!

A few years ago I decided to replace the Bill Lawrence "Original" pickups in my 1989 Dot Re-issue 335 with a pair of Seth Lovers and a new wiring harness. It took me around 14 hours...

Worth it, though! Seth Lovers work very well with semi-hollows.

[deytookerjaabs]

I've had a lot of luck the past few times doing it the factory way where I'm all wired up then use string to pull the whole harness in. But, the worst time was an Epi Sherton where the F-Hole was bound so we had to file the binding at an inward angle to make a space big enough for full size pots to fit...major pain in the rear. 

[TalismanRich]

That's the route I'm taking.    The original harness is intact, and a completely new one will be built and put in through the neck pickup hole.   The fishing line is on the shelf waiting to be tied up to the new pots.   

Still, even that way is a major PITA compared to doing an H150 or a Strat or Tele.  

If it turns out good and lasts for another 15 years, then I won't have to worry.   They probably won't let me play my guitar at the nursing home (at least not with an amp!)

[rockabilly69]

2 minutes ago, TalismanRich said:

That's the route I'm taking.    The original harness is intact, and a completely new one will be built and put in through the neck pickup hole.   The fishing line is on the shelf waiting to be tied up to the new pots.   

Still, even that way is a major PITA compared to doing an H150 or a Strat or Tele.  

If it turns out good and lasts for another 15 years, then I won't have to worry.   They probably won't let me play my guitar at the nursing home (at least not with an amp!)

Forget the string, use small gauge plastic tubing, it doesn't twist up when feeding through the holes. I have done more of these that I care to count and I can tell you it is light years better than string.

Here's TV Jones doing a Gretsch but the idea is still the same...   

 

[DetroitBlues]

Makes you wonder why they just don't make an access control plate on the backside of these.

Didn't Gibson do that for a short time?

[rockabilly69]

5 hours ago, DetroitBlues said:

Makes you wonder why they just don't make an access control plate on the backside of these.

Didn't Gibson do that for a short time?

because no-one wants to see that big hunk of plastic on the back once the pickups are in:) Gibson did it on some cheaper ES335 studio models.

[Genericmusic]

On 6/21/2018 at 12:16 PM, rockabilly69 said:

Forget the string, use small gauge plastic tubing, it doesn't twist up when feeding through the holes. 

[TalismanRich]

The problem I see with using tubing is that there is no way that the multiple pieces of tubing will fit in the small opening in the bridge pickup access hole, much less with the pots and switches attached.   I know from experience that going through the f-holes is even tighter, so it looks like it will be the old string method.   

If it was a full hollow,  the tubing would definitely be the way to go.    The pots and jack are here,  waiting on the cable to arrive.  

[pressure]

Here's the link to the best input jacks.

https://puretonetechnologies.com

[brentrocks]

I’ll never attempt to re wire a 535 again either.    I did it once and it was pure hell.   

Good for you on getting it done Rich.  

[deytookerjaabs]

12 hours ago, TalismanRich said:

The problem I see with using tubing is that there is no way that the multiple pieces of tubing will fit in the small opening in the bridge pickup access hole, much less with the pots and switches attached.   I know from experience that going through the f-holes is even tighter, so it looks like it will be the old string method.   

If it was a full hollow,  the tubing would definitely be the way to go.    The pots and jack are here,  waiting on the cable to arrive.  

 

 

Yeah, I've been stuck with the F-Hole on a number of occasions. I just solder it all up and get each pot in there at the order they'd snug up to in the holes. With the string I also use solid strand wire it ties to to guide it in. First tie the wire to the output jack, guide your wire, pull as far as it will go until the neck tone pot gets to the f-hole then tie it up with the wire going through it's hole, then bridge tone then if you're lucky the last two will practically drop right in, some rags help to protect the finish. Of course, the art to it is tying the wire up so it's not impossible to remove, it's tricky! 

I don't know about the size/route of the center block around 535 bridge pickups, on some Gibsons there's a lot of room there (varitone or other models) and some there's none. There's enough space in my ES340 I could practically do the whole thing with my fingers alone. 

Yeah, tubing is standard on the big boxes, also helps keeping your wiring harness more stable if you use it or heat shrink. 

[TalismanRich]

I promised a followup.

Monday morning -   With temps in the 90s,  and humidity almost the same, there was no reason to venture out yesterday.   The AC was working fine, so I decided that it was time to get to work on the rewiring.   All the stuff had arrived, and Sunday I even stopped by Lowes to get some vinyl tubing to see if I could use that method.  

9:15 -  I start out trimming cables, getting everything laid out and tinned,  wiring diagram hung on the wall for reference.   I start soldering parts together while Chase plays on the CD player. Bill Chase was an outstanding trumpet player!   The CD finishes, and I solder on in silence for a while.   I finish up and take about 15 minutes to get a Mt Dew, stretch and rest my eyes. 

11:00 - I clear off the bench and set up the guitar to begin loading the harness in the guitar.   I cut a few lengths of tubing, and try pulling the harness in with the pots attached.   No go,  the 535 is even thinner than a standard 335.   The tubing is too stiff and the depth is too shallow to make the turn and pull the pot up through the whole.  I give it a few attempts and after about 15-20 minutes, decide that the string method is the way to go.   Abbey Road is half way done,    I pull the whole thing out and start over.   

String is pulled through the holes, and tied to the pots,  and the harness is fed in through.   I solder the bridge ground to the switch and pull the first pots through the holes.   Three come through with a bit of work, the input jack is secured.   Only one pot to go, but its hung up.   Apparently the string has gotten hooked around some of the tabs, which means that the neck pot won't pull through.   The Beatles are done, and Carole King is half way through Tapestry.   A few attempts to retrieve the string are a bust.  I give up, unscrew the other three pots and the jack,  unsolder the bridge ground wire and pull the harness back out.   Yup,  the string was wrapped under and hooked on the tab.   It seems the string was just too limp.   I get a thicker, bit stiffer string, and put the harness in back in.  This works much better   Iron Butterfly's Metamorphosis is in the player.   Best album they ever put out!   Pinera and Reinhardt made magic together.

1:10 - The harness is all in,   its time to have a bit of lunch.   Overall, not too bad.  Only 3 hours!

2:15  -   Altered Five Blues Band is playing.   Great blue band from Milwaukee.    Now the easy part,   putting things back together and stringing it up.    I get a few strings on and take it over to the amp to check that everything is working.    Bridge pickup -- bingo.    Volume and tone working fine.    Flip the switch to neck and ......SILENCE!   No sound at all!  Same in the mid position.   Back to the bench.   Pull the strings, unscrew the pots and pull the whole harness out again!    Pull the VOM and check everything.   Everything is checking out.   WTF???  The only thing I can figure is that the bare ground shield on the pickup cable somehow grounded out the neck pickup.   

3:30  -   The pickups are unsoldered and heat shrink tubing is put on the first 3 inches of the pickup cable.   There's no way it will ground out this time.    I pull out the Line 6 PODxt, and plug in the harness while its still on the bench.   Everything is working.    Volume and tone controls are working.   Switch is working fine.    I flip to the radio, so I don't have to pick out any more CDs.  Set up the guitar and start again.    I'm getting better at fishing the harness through.   It only takes about 30 or 40 minutes and everything is fed through.    Another check with the PODxt that the pickups are working, and its time to take a break.   Its well after 5 and I need another Mt Dew!

6:15  -   The guitar is strung,  bridge is adjusted.   A 1/4 turn of the truss rod, and everything is tuned.   I plug into the DSL401 and run through everything.    SUCCESS!    It only took 9 hours!

Now the volume pots are nice and smooth and quiet.   The toggle switch is solid.    I like the combination of the vintage 30% taper for the volume with the standard audio taper for the tone.   I didn't go with the vintage tone wiring though. 

Before I started this,  I did a quick recording of the guitar straight in to use as a reference.    I'll do the same later with the Sheptones to see how they compare to the Schallers.   For now,  I've got  my 535 back, and playable!    That's a good thing.   I can relax for the rest of the night.

 

Tuesday morning.....

Its only supposed to be a heat index of 105 today,  maybe I should go cut the grass.   I seem to be a glutton for punishment!

 

[deytookerjaabs]

Uhg, forgot to mention the part where you plug in, test the pickups, and shake the harness for good measure before inserting. At least it's over with!