H-535 first impressions

[Jean]

Hello everyone,

I just joined the forum as I am a new Heritage owner.

I have just received my first H-535 and I 'd like to share my impressions.

First let tell you where I'm coming from;

I'm a multi instrumentalist producer, and I was in the market initially for an ES-335,

as I love that very specific sound that it has. I read a lot about the Heritages before ordering one,

I watched as many videos as possible and finally ordered from Jay Wolfe at Wolfe Guitars.

So the guitar arrived , it looks really amazing and the quality of construction and finish are top notch.

The playability is great, the neck is perfect, the tuning is super stable, more than any guitar I've used.

Overall it's a super high quality instrument , with great dynamics articulation and clarity.

Then I went to the studio to play it on a couple of amps, the Peavey Classic 30 and a Fender Hot Rod Deluxe.

My first test was with clean settings using the neck pickup which I prefer.

I was surprised with both amps by how bright the guitar sounds. 

Not in a bad way of course it sounds really rich, but I think it's not exactly what I was expecting.

I expected the darker smooth , creamy tone of the ES-335, but the sound is very clear and bright,

very clean and maybe lacking a little bit in personality.

My personal feeling is that It's not as inspiring I was hoping.

Being disappointed with the sound, I took it to a music store to try on better amps,

and got a chance to compare it with an es-335 from the current 2018 traditional series,

and this confirmed my feeling that the H-535 doesn't sound like the es-335, at least not that particular one.

So I'm wondering if that's the case for most h-535 or is it just mine ?

I remember reading that users found it brighter that the 335, but what's your view on this?

I still think it's a great guitar but it's not really the sound I had in mind..

The pickups are Seth Lovers. 

Thanks for your feedback.

[deytookerjaabs]

Vintage dots are bright with a subtle acoustic quality with varying degrees of "thump," each one being a little different. If you get a high end ES335 reissue and put those same pickups in it you'll likely get the same result. You might be looking for '57 classic style pickups which can be a bit warmer and more compressed, they were the standard on Gibson 335's for decades (and sometimes 300k pots) but before that I would grab a budget friendly ABR-1 Bridge with either ABS Plastic or Nylon Saddles, those will give a little bit different tone...then 300k pots, then 57 Classics if the aforementioned mods don't do enough. 

 

 

 

 

Just a quick vid search I got these two clips. My buddy has an original '59 335 too and it sounds right in the ball park. Both of these guitars have bright slightly thin pickups with an that bit of hollow body coming through in the tone. Very similar. But, again, for decades modern ES335's have been voiced on the darker side thanks to the pots/pickups. If you want that sound, those simple mods I listed should do it. 

[Polo]

I suspect that the plain maple vaneers have robbed this guitar of its confidence.

You should just send it back to Wolfe and demand that he send you one thats highly flamed and has a "darker personality".

Best of luck to you, Jean

[FredZepp]

Welcome to the Club!

I've been getting some wonderful thick, rich tones from my Heritage Prospect with Seth Lovers lately.  I think your 535 just needs dialed in.  I'd start with pickup height.  

On mine, it just requires lowering the volume knob a bit to get there.  I'd roll off a bit on the tone knob if needed , but it doesn't.   I like to have a guitar where just working the volume knob takes you to a nice variety of tones.. with enough clarity on tap to not get lost in the mix in real time.. 

[Jean]

40 minutes ago, Polo said:

I suspect that the plain maple vaneers have robbed this guitar of its confidence.

You should just send it back to Wolfe and demand that he send you one thats highly flamed and has a "darker personality".

Best of luck to you, Jean

Actually I specifically asked for a non flamed body as I find it OTT tacky, I find it more sober and elegant without. Although on the pic it looks like it's got no veins at all but it's just the bad pic quality..

[Jean]

Thanks guys for your replies, I'm aware that I may need some time to tame that beast and make it mine, I'll look into adjusting pups height and action.

Although it was pretty well setup from Wolfe Guitars.

[Jean]

59 minutes ago, deytookerjaabs said:

Vintage dots are bright with a subtle acoustic quality with varying degrees of "thump," each one being a little different. If you get a high end ES335 reissue and put those same pickups in it you'll likely get the same result. You might be looking for '57 classic style pickups which can be a bit warmer and more compressed, they were the standard on Gibson 335's for decades (and sometimes 300k pots) but before that I would grab a budget friendly ABR-1 Bridge with either ABS Plastic or Nylon Saddles, those will give a little bit different tone...then 300k pots, then 57 Classics if the aforementioned mods don't do enough. 

 

 

 

 

Just a quick vid search I got these two clips. My buddy has an original '59 335 too and it sounds right in the ball park. Both of these guitars have bright slightly thin pickups with an that bit of hollow body coming through in the tone. Very similar. But, again, for decades modern ES335's have been voiced on the darker side thanks to the pots/pickups. If you want that sound, those simple mods I listed should do it. 

Thanks for the videos, I hear what you're saying about vintage 335, I think what I like is actually that compressed sound that you mentioned, but I wouldn't' want to change pickups on the guitar yet, and I wonder if it would really make a difference, as I believe a guitar has its own sound and the pickups are only there to reveal it, but I might be wrong..

[TalismanRich]

1 hour ago, Jean said:

Thanks for the videos, I hear what you're saying about vintage 335, I think what I like is actually that compressed sound that you mentioned, but I wouldn't' want to change pickups on the guitar yet, and I wonder if it would really make a difference, as I believe a guitar has its own sound and the pickups are only there to reveal it, but I might be wrong..

Welcome Jean,

For sure, changing the pickups will change the whole character of the guitar.    I just finished swapping out the original Schallers for a pair of Sheptone tributes and its a different guitar.    Output is lower, and its like turning off the "loudness" control on old receivers.   Bass dropped a bunch,  top end lost some of the peakiness.    I haven't restrung my Mille lately to compare to compare it directly to a pair of Seth Lovers yet.    (Probably this weekend.  I'm down to my last set of strings.)   Its a totally different guitar now, with a more pronounced midrange punch. 

I'll have to take the 535 down and plug into the Classic 30 to see how it sounds now with that amp.   It really sings with my 65 Princeton Reverb clone.

You might also try a set of pure nickel strings compared to the normal steel/nickel strings.    They mellowed out things for me, but in the end,  I preferred the snap of the steel/nickel strings and went back.  

My problem with Youtube videos is that there are SO MANY things that affect the sound that for me its almost impossible to tell what any one component is doing to the sound unless its a direct, side by side comparison.   Last year at PSP,  I recorded the jam session and had two mics on the guitar (I though there would be two amps).    There was an SM57 and a Studio Projects B3 in cardioid mode.   I compared the two tracks and you would have thought they were different setups.   

I haven't played a recent 335, but a few years back, I compared a bunch of 335s at Willcutts (vintage and new) and the new ones were very dead sounding compared to both my 535 and the vintage 335s.   

[Jean]

10 minutes ago, TalismanRich said:

Welcome Jean,

For sure, changing the pickups will change the whole character of the guitar.    I just finished swapping out the original Schallers for a pair of Sheptone tributes and its a different guitar.    Output is lower, and its like turning off the "loudness" control on old receivers.   Bass dropped a bunch,  top end lost some of the peakiness.    I haven't restrung my Mille lately to compare to compare it directly to a pair of Seth Lovers yet.    (Probably this weekend.  I'm down to my last set of strings.)   Its a totally different guitar now, with a more pronounced midrange punch. 

I'll have to take the 535 down and plug into the Classic 30 to see how it sounds now with that amp.   It really sings with my 65 Princeton Reverb clone.

You might also try a set of pure nickel strings compared to the normal steel/nickel strings.    They mellowed out things for me, but in the end,  I preferred the snap of the steel/nickel strings and went back.  

My problem with Youtube videos is that there are SO MANY things that affect the sound that for me its almost impossible to tell what any one component is doing to the sound unless its a direct, side by side comparison.   Last year at PSP,  I recorded the jam session and had two mics on the guitar (I though there would be two amps).    There was an SM57 and a Studio Projects B3 in cardioid mode.   I compared the two tracks and you would have thought they were different setups.   

I haven't played a recent 335, but a few years back, I compared a bunch of 335s at Willcutts (vintage and new) and the new ones were very dead sounding compared to both my 535 and the vintage 335s.   

Thanks for your input, that's interesting, although I don't have much experience with pickups, from what I understood the Seth Lovers seem to be very popular and the closest thing to the original vintage PAFs. Now I'd like to know if they're ar definitely on the bright side compared to others.

Also I did a pickup swap on cheap Cort 335 a few years back and I could hardly hear a difference. Maybe the pups had a very similar voicing..

[cobo]

Jean, I had the exact same impression (guitar was too bright) with the 335 I bought.  Mine was fitted with Seymour Duncan 59's, and lots of people recommended Seth Lovers, so I switched to those.  Still too bright.  And if I rolled off the tone knob to the point where the treble strings sounded liked what I expected, the bass strings got very muffled and muddy.  So I switched to Sanford Magnetics 1812.  That helped considerably.  I still need to roll down the tone knob to tame the brightness, but I don't need to roll it off as much, and therefore the bass strings articulation isn't completely destroyed.

Bottom line: pickups will make a big difference.  See my recent posting that includes some sounds from my solid-body H140 with ThroBaks and 335 with Sanford Magnetics.  As you can hear in the video, the ThroBak's sound  warmer than the Sanford Magnetics, so that may be a good option for your 535.

[deytookerjaabs]

Yeah, I forgot to mention you can probably raise the pickups and lower the pole pieces for a bit more output/fatness but it won't change the character of the pickup.

But, pickups, especially the wide range of humbucker types, make a big difference on semi hollow guitars IMO. Think of them as an EQ pedal you can't shut off. 

I had a '99 ES-335 with '57 Classics and I think 300k pots...it was awesome but slightly dark/compressed at the same time, a really sweet sound. My desert island guitar is a '69 ES340 and you couldn't pay me to swap out the pickups to real PAF's or boutique clones, it has a pat sticker in the neck and pat stamp pickup in the bridge. 

 

It's just accepted that PAF=Superior Tone, and no doubt a bright/wooly/articulate variant of pickup is magic in Les Pauls or other solid body guitars. But, IMO, they inject a lot of their own character and I think more balanced pickups do a better job of capturing that hollow/woody thunk in a good ES guitar. And FWIW....the huge majority of ES sounds I've dug on record didn't include PAF's. 

[cobo]

1 hour ago, cobo said:

Jean, I had the exact same impression (guitar was too bright) with the 335 I bought.  Mine was fitted with Seymour Duncan 59's, and lots of people recommended Seth Lovers, so I switched to those.  Still too bright.  And if I rolled off the tone knob to the point where the treble strings sounded liked what I expected, the bass strings got very muffled and muddy.  So I switched to Sanford Magnetics 1812.  That helped considerably.  I still need to roll down the tone knob to tame the brightness, but I don't need to roll it off as much, and therefore the bass strings articulation isn't completely destroyed.

Bottom line: pickups will make a big difference.  See my recent posting that includes some sounds from my solid-body H140 with ThroBaks and 335 with Sanford Magnetics.  As you can hear in the video, the ThroBak's sound  warmer than the Sanford Magnetics, so that may be a good option for your 535.

I just realized I typed 335. I meant 535. I don’t own a 335. 

[HANGAR18]

9 hours ago, Jean said:

Hello everyone,

I just joined the forum as I am a new Heritage owner.

I have just received my first H-535 and I 'd like to share my impressions.

First let tell you where I'm coming from;

I'm a multi instrumentalist producer, and I was in the market initially for an ES-335,

as I love that very specific sound that it has. I read a lot about the Heritages before ordering one,

I watched as many videos as possible and finally ordered from Jay Wolfe at Wolfe Guitars.

So the guitar arrived , it looks really amazing and the quality of construction and finish are top notch.

The playability is great, the neck is perfect, the tuning is super stable, more than any guitar I've used.

Overall it's a super high quality instrument , with great dynamics articulation and clarity.

Then I went to the studio to play it on a couple of amps, the Peavey Classic 30 and a Fender Hot Rod Deluxe.

My first test was with clean settings using the neck pickup which I prefer.

I was surprised with both amps by how bright the guitar sounds. 

Not in a bad way of course it sounds really rich, but I think it's not exactly what I was expecting.

I expected the darker smooth , creamy tone of the ES-335, but the sound is very clear and bright,

very clean and maybe lacking a little bit in personality.

My personal feeling is that It's not as inspiring I was hoping.

Being disappointed with the sound, I took it to a music store to try on better amps,

and got a chance to compare it with an es-335 from the current 2018 traditional series,

and this confirmed my feeling that the H-535 doesn't sound like the es-335, at least not that particular one.

So I'm wondering if that's the case for most h-535 or is it just mine ?

I remember reading that users found it brighter that the 335, but what's your view on this?

I still think it's a great guitar but it's not really the sound I had in mind..

The pickups are Seth Lovers. 

Thanks for your feedback.

Jean, welcome to the HOC!  A few thought if you are interested.

The first and most obvious question that occurred to me was, "Well, did you roll down on the tone knobs to try and find some warmer tone?" But I say this knowing that Heritage guitars have not always been equipped from the factory with the best possible pots & caps. Not only that, but it took me a long time to realize that I don't really like "Original PAF pickups" because everyone and their brother absolutely raves about them. While I'm stepping on people's toes with a comment like that, I may as well add that I don't like HRW pickups either! (hahaha Now everyone REALLY wants to kill me.) I've come to the place where I just assume I'm going to have the replace the pickups, pots & caps for any Heritage guitar I ever buy in order to get what I like.

In your particular situation, you may prefer wax potted pickups. I believe Seymour Duncan 59's are very popular or Pearly Gates. You may also like what people call 50's wiring, which will give you much better productivity from the tone knobs and that warm tone you are looking for.

Glad you like the plain Maple, I think Polo may have had his tongue firmly planted in his cheek with that crack about sending it back.

Overall, the Heritage H535 is a fantastic guitar so you've already got all the difficult stuff out of the way in your quest for tone nirvana.

 

[Spectrum13]

One change not previous mentioned was the 2018 models use bridges with titanium saddles. I have a Faber ABR-1 with ti saddles on my 150 and it rings brigher than brass or nickle plated.  It is a PIA to figure if they are using 500 or 300 or 250 audio or linear pots. All six of mine have RS audio taper with a few having 300 tone pots to cut treble.

[Millennium Maestro]

14 hours ago, Jean said:

Plaintop... I have mixed feeling about using a plain laminant on the top layer, I really prefer to see the Karma and characteristics of wood figuring.

The second visual that bothers me is the Locking Advanced Plating bridge(Aluminum?) with a Tonepros locking tail(Zamac?), hits me like a Duncan pickup married to a Dimarzio!

I am sure you have an excellent guitar there, I suspect it may require a few hardware/electronics tweaks to pull the tone out you expect... I am sure it has 500K pots, I would try an easy bridge tweak first. In the golden era a setup tweak always brought the most out of the guitars... From the sounds of your response it may take some time for the Meng Era to fine tune all the subtle changes they have focused on. Deviating from a tried and true 60 year old formulas doesn't always make the final product better especially if you are seeking old school tone.

Good luck and Enjoy I have heard variety is the spice of life.

[Gitfiddler]

Jean, welcome to the HOC.  Beautiful 535 you have there.  Have you discussed your concerns with Wolfe's yet? 

[High Flying Bird]

I put SM Phat Cats in my 535 and it sounds great.  You have a nice looking guitar there.  Welcome aboard. 

[DetroitBlues]

I have a 535 with Seth Lovers.  I like the brighter tones I have, but the tone and volume controls go a long way.  Since Heritage does not use 50's wiring style, rolling off the volume darkens the pickups.

Also, I agree with the pickup height.  There is an industry standard height, but that doesn't mean its right for you.  I always adjust the height by starting with the pickups as flush as possible, then slowly raise while playing the guitar until the tone I like comes through and balances between the other pickups.

[Millennium Maestro]

How bout a simple string change to a Pure Nickel set which are darken toned by nature.

[Jean]

Guys, thanks for all the replies and suggestions, I'll start by doing a string change and adjusting the pickups. 

I 'll come back here once I've done these adjustments next week.

Cheers!

[Jean]

13 hours ago, Gitfiddler said:

Jean, welcome to the HOC.  Beautiful 535 you have there.  Have you discussed your concerns with Wolfe's yet? 

Actually a few hours after I got the guitar I sent them an email to thank them and say how happy I was with the guitar, but at that point I hadn't tried it on the amp..;)

Also I am from France and it was already a hassle for them to send the guitar with the new CITES regulation, so now I feel a bit bad getting back to them with negative comments. But at the end of the day it's really a personal matter, someone else may just love the sound of that guitar, I just find it a bit bland and uninspiring, I guess I need some time to bond with it and make it mine. I still think though that with any instrument it should be love at first sight, but that's the risk of buying without trying..

 

[Gitfiddler]

1 hour ago, Jean said:

Actually a few hours after I got the guitar I sent them an email to thank them and say how happy I was with the guitar, but at that point I hadn't tried it on the amp..;)

Also I am from France and it was already a hassle for them to send the guitar with the new CITES regulation, so now I feel a bit bad getting back to them with negative comments. But at the end of the day it's really a personal matter, someone else may just love the sound of that guitar, I just find it a bit bland and uninspiring, I guess I need some time to bond with it and make it mine. I still think though that with any instrument it should be love at first sight, but that's the risk of buying without trying..

 

Yes, an overseas purchase does complicate matters.  However, contacting Wolfe  can't hurt.  Their experience with Heritage guitars is second to none, and they could offer solutions as well.

Once you experiment with the pickup height, dialing back the volume controls slightly, etc., hopefully you'll discover a tone that you can live with.  Otherwise, as others have stated, you might need to invest in a pickup swap and/or wiring upgrade.  Good luck!

[Millennium Maestro]

GFiddler - I Cant see the Seths being a source of brightness, also both G. + H use similar 500K pots?  but a 300K pot swap would change tone for sure.

[Jean]

36 minutes ago, Millennium Maestro said:

GFiddler - I Cant see the Seths being a source of brightness, also both G. + H use similar 500K pots?  but a 300K pot swap would change tone for sure.

Ok , so I don't know much about electronics but from what I understood, the pots only affect the tone when dialing back, but does it make a difference when volume and tone are all the way up? 

Also regarding pickups the general consensus seems to be that PAFs are generally more open / brighter and less compressed than the later humbuckers designs?

[Jean]

One more question, is the 535 top the same construction as Gibson's; maple , poplar, maple?