Heritage Guitar Values...Now and Future?

[Gitfiddler]

With all of the changes at Heritage Guitars of Kalamazoo, what are HOC member's thoughts on the impact of current and future Heritage guitar values on the used market?

 

[Vanschoyck]

I know this isn't what you mean, and I apologize for that, but I know I value my Heritages more now than before knowing that I can't just order replacements.  There have been so many great custom builds show up on this forum, and some cooky ones too.

As far as prices go, if Heritage succeeds in making some meaningful improvements and also brings back some more models along with some customization, that would probably have an impact on all of that.

Right now if I wanted to replace my spruce top 575 or Sweet 16 it could turn into quite a hunt.

[pressure]

Working with Bill, Marv, JP, Jim, Ren and Pete - Priceless! There's your value, it's something you can't put a dollar sign on.

[Polo]

Once upon a time not too long ago I TRULY felt that the monetary value of my Heritage Guitars would stand a better chance of appreciating faster than any of my mass produced guitars. I don't feel that way anymore.

Unfortunately, I think a steady wave of vintage and or high end gear is going to be making it's way to market as the vast number of boomers who are  starting to check out continue to grow.

 

[TalismanRich]

That's a question for my kids to answer.   

On the other hand,   it seems to me that prices have risen moderately over the past 2 years.   Where an H140 was $1000 a couple years ago,  now they fetch $1200.    My 535 was $1250 and now that's a rock bottom price,   most are running $1500-2000.   

New 535s are listing at $2200 to 2800.   It wasn't that long ago that you get one for under $2000 pretty easily,

 

[Vanschoyck]

36 minutes ago, Polo said:

Unfortunately, I think a steady wave of vintage and or high end gear is going to be making it's way to market as the vast number of boomers who are  starting to check out continue to grow.

As a "boomer" let me just say, that ain't funny man!

 

[Stringman]

I agree that the "tidal wave" of the guitar market may have passed us by. The population that was "Beatles Influenced" is aging and as they  do (me included) we tend to sell gear, downsize and drop out of bands. Many guys I know that played in bands are now "home players" and need less gear. They can justify less gear. I am included in this mix. At one point I had as many as 20+ guitars, 5 amps and a boomer PA. I'm now down to 5 guitars, 1 amp and no PA. I think the wave of downsizing will continue. 

 

Because of that, more used gear will come on the market with fewer buyers. I think this could easily depress market prices on a permanent basis. I believe my H-576 is a good of a guitar as I've ever owned. Period. But, I don't feel it will hold its value over the long haul because of the above factors. Were it a "brand name", it might stand a chance of holding value a little better. On the other hand, this guitar is not for sale, will be given to my oldest daughter and in my mind is "priceless". 

 

Used to be I could get a cup of McDonalds coffee for $1.06 but not any longer. That promotion ended. So, this opinion is worth the price you paid for it or a cup of McDonald's coffee here in Michigan. 

Take Care.

Stringman

[HANGAR18]

3 hours ago, Gitfiddler said:

With all of the changes at Heritage Guitars of Kalamazoo, what are HOC member's thoughts on the impact of current and future Heritage guitar values on the used market?

 

As new prices of anything go up, in a normal world, that will also drive up the price of the used market. However, there are always variables to consider, which includes, but is not limited to the law of supply and demand. It has always seemed to me that HOC members are willing to pay different prices for Heritage guitars than people outside of the HOC. As far as the whole market goes, meaning both inside the HOC and outside the HOC, I think used prices will go up just like everything else goes up over the course of time. I don't think the change of ownership of the company will make any difference, only the MSRP of new guitars will ultimately drive the greatest affect of the price of used guitars.

Where the used price of Heritage guitars would become completely unpredictable and blown all to hell  would be if for example if let's say (totally hypothetically of course) that if Heritage Guitars went completely out of business. If under any circumstances Heritage Guitar were to go out of business and stop making guitars all together (because they no longer existed) then the only driving factor for the price of used Heritage guitars would be whatever people were willing to pay for them. Just like Hamer for example. There is no set price for Hamer guitars and only a memory of what their MSRP was back when they were in business. In a situation like that, the market will fluctuate solely according to what the buyer is willing to pay. imho, if Heritage were to ever go out of business, it would be a MUCH more difficult sell to unload a used Heritage guitar. At least people have heard of Cheap Trick so it would be easier to sell a used Hamer guitar. But right now, Heritage is still in business and you can't sell anyone a Heritage guitar without first telling them the whole Heritage story. Can you image how hard it would be to sell a used Heritage if they folded? Even harder, nigh unto impossible if you are trying to sell a used Heritage guitar to a young person who has never heard of Led Zeppelin.

Wow... this rum is quite delicious. Am I rambling? I should shut up now.

[Stringman]

Speaking of difficulty to sell: one report I saw on YouTube said that G&L Guitars carried some of the lowest resale values and were the hardest to sell on the used market. Not my opinion, but one I've recently seen. NO mention was made of Heritage Guitars being hard to resell, at least in this one YouTube Video. 

Just sayin'. 

 

[HANGAR18]

5 hours ago, Stringman said:

Speaking of difficulty to sell: one report I saw on YouTube said that G&L Guitars carried some of the lowest resale values and were the hardest to sell on the used market. Not my opinion, but one I've recently seen. NO mention was made of Heritage Guitars being hard to resell, at least in this one YouTube Video. 

Just sayin'. 

 

I've owned G&L guitars before, each one I bought new. It seems to me that every time I have ever seen a G&L guitar listed for sale, the owner is trying to sell it for what they cost new. Sometimes even above what I bought mine for brand new. So, maybe they are hard to sell because G&L owners set the price too high?

[Kuz]

To answer the OP question.... I don't think there will be any difference.   Like it or not, Heritage guitars are not notably in the guitar market.  

They are amazing instruments, but they are not investments.  

Enjoy them for what they are, high quality guitars.  But IMHO they will go the way of Hammer & Guild.... into obscurity whether Heritage Corp continues to make guitars or not. 

[Polo]

12 hours ago, Vanschoyck said:

As a "boomer" let me just say, that ain't funny man!

 

My apologies for the insensitivity.

[Yooper]

13 hours ago, Polo said:

 

Unfortunately, I think a steady wave of vintage and or high end gear is going to be making it's way to market as the vast number of boomers who are  starting to check out continue to grow.

 

This creaky, old, crotchety boomer has been very happy to finally check out Heritage guitars. Took me long enough.

Oooohh, wait... THAT kind of "check out".

Well, then.

I'd say right after the knees and back, the heavy amps are the first to go. As for our favorite guitars, we'd prefer they be taken from our cold dead hands by eager players. Not being morbid, just saying when there's life there's music.

Instead of ranting, "You young whippersnappers will get your turn soon enough; you ain't as young as you used to be either," we wish everyone should be lucky enough to play at least as long as we have. 

Saul Goodman.

[deytookerjaabs]

I hope they stay low in terms of value, keep'em available to players at large. 

[DetroitBlues]

Between inflation and the rise of new prices, the used value will go up.

Now if we compare this to the the G-line of guitars, the new and used values of Heritages have not gone up as quickly.

I believe the quality of exports going up and the demand for USA goes down, Heritages are a tough sell on the used market.

Too many small "boutique" builders reinventing the wheel along large manufactures pumping out more guitars supply then demand calls for.

Import quality is going up and cost is staying down.  We can ask $2000 for a used 535, but the sold price isn't even close.  

High end (or is it just higher cost?) guitars are slow to sell.  Not many younger people have $2000 of disposable income to buy an American guitar, their demand further diminishes when an import guitar's quality is high and cost is low; not many are lining up to buy an American Guitar.

[Gitfiddler]

I would agree that the new higher prices of Heritage guitars has pulled up the values on the used models.  Another unexpected influence on Heritage used prices is Reverb.com.

Buyers and sellers can view the 'selling' price trends of most instruments.  Most used Heritage model's selling prices have crept up over time.  Now that the factory has limited its line-up, and raised prices on custom builds dramatically, it seems logical that used models with custom upgrades will also sell for more.  Maybe not a lot more, but more than the plain vanilla versions.

[Yooper]

If their used value stays low, the better the deals for happy new owners. If value goes up, great for us.  Either way we're lucky. I'll still take my H-150 over a non-custom shop LP Standard any day, even over many custom shop models.

I think our guitars are generally worth more than their monetary value anyway. It's the Heritage. That's the point, right?

 

[TalismanRich]

17 hours ago, Yooper said:

I think our guitars are generally worth more than their monetary value anyway. It's the Heritage. That's the point, right?

 

I don't worry about the value of any of my Heritage guitars.    I can honestly say that I have NEVER given resale value a thought when buying any of my guitars.   I bought them because that was a guitar that I wanted to play.   

 

[ElNumero]

On 8/31/2018 at 11:33 AM, TalismanRich said:

I don't worry about the value of any of my Heritage guitars.    I can honestly say that I have NEVER given resale value a thought when buying any of my guitars.   I bought them because that was a guitar that I wanted to play.   

 

But won't you need to sell them for your retirement?

[myoldfriend]

On 8/29/2018 at 4:35 PM, Polo said:

Once upon a time not too long ago I TRULY felt that the monetary value of my Heritage Guitars would stand a better chance of appreciating faster than any of my mass produced guitars. I don't feel that way anymore.

Unfortunately, I think a steady wave of vintage and or high end gear is going to be making it's way to market as the vast number of boomers who are  starting to check out continue to grow.

 

For the OP - two words:  supply and demand; determining market value at a location near you, now and for millennia to come.  But it is interesting reading the thoughts of those who are emotionally attached to their widgets.

For Polo's quote above:  +1 and yes good Sir, it is already happening and one does not have to look very hard for evidence:  

   https://www.thegearpage.net/board/index.php?threads/vintage-purge-phase-1.1972772/

 

[Yooper]

47 minutes ago, myoldfriend said:

For the OP - two words:  supply and demand; determining market value at a location near you, now and for millennia to come.  But it is interesting reading the thoughts of those who are emotionally attached to their widgets.

For Polo's quote above:  +1 and yes good Sir, it is already happening and one does not have to look very hard for evidence:  

   https://www.thegearpage.net/board/index.php?threads/vintage-purge-phase-1.1972772/

 

In this case it's not even a boomer.! Gen X is riding close behind, as the crotchety old coot suggested. 

Most of these guitars will outlast everyone here, adding our individual imprint to the guitar's history. It's almost like the instrument plays it's owners, one after another. Some of our very own guitars will likely contribute to famous, or just incredibly beautiful, sounds some day. 

At least for now we can get in our own licks. Play on!

[myoldfriend]

Smoke 'em if you got 'em!

[TalismanRich]

On 9/1/2018 at 2:33 PM, ElNumero said:

But won't you need to sell them for your retirement?

Probably not.   I've been scoping out the local beaches, looking for a gate job.   Barring that,  I can always sell off my massive art collection.   That should get enough to at least pay for the senior drinks at Taco Bell.

[Spectrum13]

24 minutes ago, TalismanRich said:

P,  I can always sell off my massive art collection.   That should get enough to at least pay for the senior drinks at Taco Bell.

How much for the dogs playing cards on velvet?

[TalismanRich]

Spectrum,   Currently available for only $24000.   Genuine Walmart plastic frame also available for an extra $12.   It will be securely shipped via Zip Express in a Home Depot box with full bubble wrap!   Paypal,  cash or grocery coupons accepted.

 

Re: pricing relative to Gibby.   I can't make heads or tales of the Gibson Historic/VOS/R7 8 9 market.   Maybe its because I don't really pay a lot of attention to all of the various versions that are out there.    Looking at Reverb,  I see people selling VOS and R9s for as much or more than I can buy one from Sweetwater.   The VOS 58 is $1500 less than the VOS 59 or 60.   What's the big difference between a 58 VOS and a 59 VOS other than the neck carve?  Why does the "undesireable" 60s slim carve command the same price as a 59?     Why does Musicians Friend have a "private reserve" VOS 60s for $8600, which is $3600 more than Sweetwater?   Is it worth $3600 to have someone who works for Musicians Friend pick out a piece of maple for the top?   

For $3600,  I bet Pete Farmer would let me pick out a piece of wood, and include the rest of the guitar for free.   He would probably carve the neck the way I want too.  Net savings of $5000 to $6500.

In any case, these things go in cycles.   One nice downturn in the economy and you'll see all the collectors trying to raise cash, while the players will grab some nice guitars to play.