H150 Stop Bar

[Jerkey]

I just recently purchased a Heritage H-150 directly from the Kalamazoo Factory. When I received the guitar I noticed that the stop bar was pretty high off the body and that both E strings were making contact with the bridge. I emailed Heritage with several photographs about my concern and was told that my setup was correct and totally normal. Here is a copy of the reply from Heritage about the situation. 

 

Daniel (Heritage Guitars)

Aug 21, 10:48 SGT

Hey Mike,

Thanks for hanging in there. Looking at the pictures, that is adjusted correctly. The tops on our guitars have more of a curve, as compared to other manufacturers, so the stop needs to be adjusted in that way. 

The carve is so the top reflects light better and shows off the wood in the light better. Hope that helps to clarify it a bit. Do let me know if you have any follow-up questions. 

Thanks,
Daniel

[LK155]

If you top-wrap the strings you should be able to lower the tail piece considerably.

 

[DetroitBlues]

Well, IMHO, that bridge is way too high.  If that’s the factory height, I think the neck isn’t set correctly.

the tailpiece being that high is because of the bridge.  Top wrapping is a great way to fix that.

[davesultra]

I've had a few Heritage & Gibson guitars with the neck angle set in a little off, which made the stopbar sit up higher. It's actually fairly common to find, and setup properly it still can be a great player. It doesn't necessarily mean it's "wrong", but it certainly isn't preferred.

[tbonesullivan]

The Bridge doesn't look to be super high though. Can you get a better resolution picture? Are the strings contacting the back of the bridge?

[HANGAR18]

1 hour ago, DetroitBlues said:

Well, IMHO, that bridge is way too high.  If that’s the factory height, I think the neck isn’t set correctly.

the tailpiece being that high is because of the bridge.  Top wrapping is a great way to fix that.

I think that answer from Heritage is complete (excrement from a a bovine male animal).

DB, I agree that the the neck must have been set at the wrong degree of angle.

But I think top wrapping is a band-aid, not a fix.

 

[HANGAR18]

1 hour ago, davesultra said:

I've had a few Heritage & Gibson guitars with the neck angle set in a little off, which made the stopbar sit up higher. It's actually fairly common to find, and setup properly it still can be a great player. It doesn't necessarily mean it's "wrong", but it certainly isn't preferred.

The strings should not make contact with the bridge. There is absolutely no excuse for that.

I'm getting more pissed off (at Heritage) the more I read this post. I'm going to bed.

[Spectrum13]

ABR-1 bridge will allow greater string clearance so that the stop tail could be lowered some too. The bridge height looks ok.  The top carve will absolutely affect that angle.

[deytookerjaabs]

Hmmmm, on the one hand this is a lot like some factory USA & Vintage Lesters....on the other hand it's now a $2500 small production instrument touting top shelf features. 

 

I don't know what side to take, lol. I know if you want to have a top notch H-150 that competes with it's more expensive brethren a lower bridge height is usually preferred though I'm not one to complain when mine are high. The reply seems correct only in the sense that the belly carve looks to be a good bit higher under the bridge than at the tailpiece. I agree, the bridge doesn't look too high compared to others I've seen but the nashville insert could mask that. Better & bigger photos would be nice. 

[yoslate]

I blew the picture up with a keyboard command.  Resolution's not good, but it seems to me that the pickup (bridge, of course) is sitting pretty high in the bezel, with the string height much higher still.  Seems the p'up could come down, then the bridge and tailpiece with it.  All of this said without any idea of where the action is, now.  If that guitar plays fine, with everything that sky-high at the bridge, something's not right.  Could be neck set.  Could be top carve.  Could be a combination.  And the break angle over the back of the bridge is not exactly shallow, which is odd given the height of the tailpiece.  That bridge and tailpiece are jacked!  As well, from Heritage: "The carve is so the top reflects light better and shows off the wood in the light better."  That's a new one on me.  But I've been playing Lesters for only fifty years....

[Jerkey]

Here is a link to some better pictures.

 

 

https://www.dropbox.com/sh/dx0fzxsh60ej8ak/AADMR5YlDRoM23v53t2FCl7aa?dl=0

[HANGAR18]

17 minutes ago, Jerkey said:

Here is a link to some better pictures.

 

 

https://www.dropbox.com/sh/dx0fzxsh60ej8ak/AADMR5YlDRoM23v53t2FCl7aa?dl=0

I just realized that my string gauge is in millimeters, which explains the difficulty I was having in using it.
I try to keep my string height at either 4 & 3 or 3 & 3 at each of the E strings. But that is pretty low for a lot of people.

(4/64th's low E & 3/64th's high E or 3/64th's for both E strings)

[High Flying Bird]

That shit ain't right. 

[Genericmusic]

If your not happy with it bring it back. Demand a refund or replacement. 

[deytookerjaabs]

Well, if I'm seeing this right I can tell you I never slot my saddles that deep which is part of the reason those strings are still hitting the bridge at a fairly normal break angle. But, even with new saddles with a more shallow slot that tailpiece will still sit a bit high I'm guessing?

Personally, I follow the vintage ABR method: I file the tops of my saddles down flat a bit so there's a bit more room then I slot them about as shallow as the slot can be while still being able to heavily bend the string taking a normal modest break angle into consideration. 

For example: 

 

My Flying V has a pretty steep break angle and if I push the strings down even further they don't touch the bridge base until the break angle is drastic. Even though I filed the saddle tops down..the slots are shallow. If you'll notice the string alignment isn't perfect, hey, it was literally hand made! 

[deytookerjaabs]

For additional comparison:

 

Here was my last H150, bridge sat real close to the top and a reasonable break angle with the tailpiece all the way down. Now that H150's are $2500+ I'd expect them to be closer to this. Angles and heights do vary but yours is really friggin high! 

[pro-fusion]

That action looks really high to me. You should be able to comfortably go a lot lower than that if the nut and the truss rod are set up correctly.

Also, I played TOM bridges for over 30 years with the strings making contact with the back of the bridge, and it never made a darn bit of difference. I have the tailpiece set up higher these days, but just so the string tension is lower.

[DetroitBlues]

11 hours ago, yoslate said:

I blew the picture up with a keyboard command.  Resolution's not good, but it seems to me that the pickup (bridge, of course) is sitting pretty high in the bezel, with the string height much higher still.  Seems the p'up could come down, then the bridge and tailpiece with it.  All of this said without any idea of where the action is, now.  If that guitar plays fine, with everything that sky-high at the bridge, something's not right.  Could be neck set.  Could be top carve.  Could be a combination.  And the break angle over the back of the bridge is not exactly shallow, which is odd given the height of the tailpiece.  That bridge and tailpiece are jacked!  As well, from Heritage: "The carve is so the top reflects light better and shows off the wood in the light better."  That's a new one on me.  But I've been playing Lesters for only fifty years....

There have been a lot of deep dish carves come and gone through my hands via ownership or other owners collections.  I would not expect to see something like that one bit.

Of course, I've only been playing Lesters for 20 years, so I know even less.

[FredZepp]

So is the truss rod set so the neck is flat?    I'd start with setting the truss rod, then set the action/intonation at the bridge  , then set the stop tail height.   And if at point it has to be that high to not slam against the back of the bridge (close to it but not resting on it ) .. I'd say that's an issue.   The better pics are helpful ... 

It looks like a really nice top on that one... I hope it works out. 

[Gitfiddler]

Send it back.

Good luck.

[Jerkey]

Well I gave them a call today. Had to leave a message. The action is fine to me, I can't see it being set any lower than it is and it plays fine. But that damn tailpiece is just to flippin high and it bugs the crap out of my picking hand. I'm definitely gonna be sending it back for a replacement or refund. Luckily I saved the box and packing material it came in.

[Steiner]

5 hours ago, Gitfiddler said:

Send it back.

Good luck.

+1

[Millennium Maestro]

First off.... This thread is silly, no one can evaluate a guitar from pictures!  Also when you buy factory direct there is no outside QC a typical dealer would perform to ensure a quality instrument is being delivered!  You saved money, spend some of that to have a PRO tech evaluate what was really delivered.   At minimum I suspect the setup was totally turd quality!
 

Nice piece of wood there... 

[brentrocks]

SEND IT BACK AND DEMAND A FREE TSHIRT

[Jerkey]

Trust me there was no money savings buying direct. Actually Heritage just started selling guitars directly form there factory in Kalamazoo Michigan this year. And as a matter of fact I was there first customer. And I will be the first to say  it is a very nice high quality instrument but I have a feeling the neck angle is wrong. They have a 30 day return policy and I have had this guitar since August 6, 2018. On August 16th I sent Heritage an email about my concerns with the stop bar and bridge. On August 21st I received a reply that can be seen in  the original post above.