535 compared HERITAGE MILLENNIUM

[ficecone]

Wolf Guitars has a Millennium for sale. I'm not familiar with the model but I've been looking for a 535. They look quite similar. Can anyone compare the guitars form me?

Thanks

[PunkKitty]

A 535 is more like a ES-335. The Millennium is smaller. It's more like a ES-339.

[Gitfiddler]

Due respect to PK, the ES339 is constructed like a smaller Semi-hollow 335/535.  The exterior dimensions are similar to Millenniums however.     

The Millenium's construction is closer to a CS336/356, with a Mahogany center core.  (see image below).  

Millies are Semi-Solid.  535's are Semi-Hollow.  Its tone is closer to a solid body than other semi hollow body gits. 

[cobo]

Agree with all of the above. Also note that the H535 is constructed with laminated maple (multiple layers, like plywood) and resonates much differently than the solid-wood front and back caps (I believe) on H155.  As Gitfiddler noted, that resonance makes the tone quite a bit different, especially at higher amplifier volumes where the H535 will feedback more easily than the H155. 

[Millennium Maestro]

Quite the loaded question.
535/335 has more neck access, the millenniums have typical  solid boy neck mount and heel unless you are talking a DC.  ES styled guitars are laminated woods and the Millenniums are solid woods. 
The Millenniums tend to be brighter and more resonant, 535s will catch feedback quicker.
Three brand new Millies I have for sale.

[cobo]

Ah, the pursuit of the Holy Grail (aka tone) ...

My H535 with Seymour Duncan 59s was so bright that I went through the gymnastics of swapping to Seth Lover’s. They were also too bright for my taste and since I was getting good at fishing wiring through the hollow body, I changed pickups again, this time to Sanford Magnetics 1812. It’a still a bright guitar, but I like the tone now. I have seen others posting on this forum about their bright H535s, so I know I’m not the only one on this forum with my high frequency hearing response still intact ... ?

That said, I find my solid-body H140, equipped with ThroBak SLE-101+ pickups, is less bright than my 535, even with the Sanford’s.  And that’s curious because, even though I’ve never played a Millie, most of the comments say its tone is similar to a solid body.  Hmmmm. 

Oh well. To each, his/her own!

[Steiner]

2 hours ago, Millennium Maestro said:

Quite the loaded question.
535/335 has more neck access, the millenniums have typical  solid boy neck mount and heel unless you are talking a DC.  ES styled guitars are laminated woods and the Millenniums are solid woods. 
The Millenniums tend to be brighter and more resonant, 535s will catch feedback quicker.
Three brand new Millies I have for sale.

I've owned both of models.  I still own the 155 That Millennium Maestro sold me!

[Gitfiddler]

7 hours ago, ficecone said:

Wolf Guitars has a Millennium for sale. I'm not familiar with the model but I've been looking for a 535. They look quite similar. Can anyone compare the guitars form me?

Thanks

One more point for the OP... 

The Millie at Wolfe Guitars, and the ones pictured above are the more deluxe versions.  In addition to the solid carved tops, etc. they have multi-layer binding, inlayed fretboards and bound headstocks.  As such they cost more than typical H535's.  You can't go wrong with either guitar, but it really boils down to what features matter to you.   Hope this helps.

[High Flying Bird]

9 hours ago, Millennium Maestro said:

Sweet!  Get a set of TV Jones and go to town with this one. 

I am a big fan of the 535.  I don't see how you can go wrong.

[Millennium Maestro]

10 hours ago, High Flying Bird said:

Sweet!  Get a set of TV Jones and go to town with this one. 

I am a big fan of the 535.  I don't see how you can go wrong.

Can't do... She is all original, new with Seths and I have a few highly interested non trigger pullers. What a Steal @ $2995 + shipping

[bolero]

I really like those Florentine cutaway Millie's!!

[DetroitBlues]

I know I was up in the air about a Millie and a 535 when I ordered one a few years ago.  I knew they'd be similar in tone, but to me it was two different guitar shapes that drew my attention.

I really like the size of Millie, but the fret access of a 535 is more like a SG or LP-DC.  You get much further up the neck without hitting your palm on the neck heel or spreading you fingers across the top.

Cost was the final determination for me.   Millie's cost a whole lot more and I suspect its due to being a carved top?  Older models were carved backs too, can't remember if they still do that.

Not to mention the additional eye candy of multiply binding, inlaid headstock, ebony fretboards, and large block MOP inlays.

I compared the Millie more to 150/157 than a 535 anyway.  Just a tad larger body size and much lighter than a typical 150/157.  

[bolero]

On 6/24/2019 at 6:42 PM, cobo said:

Ah, the pursuit of the Holy Grail (aka tone) ...

My H535 with Seymour Duncan 59s was so bright that I went through the gymnastics of swapping to Seth Lover’s. They were also too bright for my taste and since I was getting good at fishing wiring through the hollow body, I changed pickups again, this time to Sanford Magnetics 1812. It’a still a bright guitar, but I like the tone now. I have seen others posting on this forum about their bright H535s, so I know I’m not the only one on this forum with my high frequency hearing response still intact ... ?

That said, I find my solid-body H140, equipped with ThroBak SLE-101+ pickups, is less bright than my 535, even with the Sanford’s.  And that’s curious because, even though I’ve never played a Millie, most of the comments say its tone is similar to a solid body.  Hmmmm. 

Oh well. To each, his/her own!

did you look at changing any of the pot/cap values?

I have a 535 and it is anything but "too bright"; it just nails that '60's Clapton 335 vibe thru a Marshall

what amp are you using?

[cobo]

On 7/2/2019 at 10:18 PM, bolero said:

did you look at changing any of the pot/cap values?

I have a 535 and it is anything but "too bright"; it just nails that '60's Clapton 335 vibe thru a Marshall

what amp are you using?

The pots and caps  are the same value and even brand in both guitars. I use a 1977 Fender Princeton Reverb and a Fender Blues Deluxe Reissue.

There are some physical reasons why a lighter (hollow, semi-hollow) will sound brighter than a solid body. If you have two guitars that are otherwise identical: the lighter one will have a higher resonant frequency than the heavier one. It’s the same principle that makes a thinner (lighter) guitar string tuned to a given tension resonate at a higher frequency than a heavier (thicker) string at the same tension. 

[pro-fusion]

I briefly had a 555 and my Millie DC at the same time, and they sounded rather similar. Keep in mind, though, that my 555 was one of the earlier ones with a maple neck, and both guitars had HRW pickups. I'd expect a 535 to be slightly darker and "woodier" sounding than a Millie.

The Millie is a tremendously versatile instrument. The bridge pickup is anchored in the 'solid' portion of the body and is tight enough to go all the way to hard rock tones (probably not metal, though). The neck pickup is anchored in the carved top in the hollow portion of the guitar and acts much more like a traditional jazz guitar. Brilliant concept--you can cover a lot of ground with it. Probably not for anyone who's looking to get into late '70s Larry Carlton/Robben Ford territory, though.

[bolero]

9 hours ago, cobo said:

The pots and caps  are the same value and even brand in both guitars. I use a 1977 Fender Princeton Reverb and a Fender Blues Deluxe Reissue.

There are some physical reasons why a lighter (hollow, semi-hollow) will sound brighter than a solid body. If you have two guitars that are otherwise identical: the lighter one will have a higher resonant frequency than the heavier one. It’s the same principle that makes a thinner (lighter) guitar string tuned to a given tension resonate at a higher frequency than a heavier (thicker) string at the same tension. 

interesting theory, but I have had the opposite experience: my hollowbodies have always sounded darker than my solidbodies

 

 

[cobo]

4 hours ago, bolero said:

interesting theory, but I have had the opposite experience: my hollowbodies have always sounded darker than my solidbodies

 

 

I have no doubt that your hollow-bodies sound darker than your solid-bodies.  Many others have experienced the same as you have.  But there are a few others (including me) that have purchased 535s and have been surprised by the increased treble compared to their solid bodies.  The theory that the lighter weight body would have a higher frequency resonance compared to a solid body would require the guitars to have identical construction, and of course they are anything but identical in their construction.  There are many other factors that will shift the resonant peak(s) of the guitar body around, the biggest one is probably stiffness.  The way a hollow-body rim is attached to the top and back, whether the top and back are carved or made of plywood (like the 535), and the density of the body wood itself (mahogany vs maple vs ______), all make a difference. 

Based on the predominant comments from people saying their semi-hollow 535s sound darker than their solid bodies, I was stunned when my 535 sounded much brighter than my 140.  I changed the pickups, the pots, and the caps in my 535, but it still had noticeably more treble than my 140.  And, I found it difficult to tame the treble with the tone knob and the original SD 59s.  I changed the pickups to Seth Lovers - same problem.  I eventually changed to Sanford Magnetics 1812s, and could use the tone knob to roll off a  little bit of the treble without making the bass notes sound like mud.  BTW, after changing pickups in several of my guitars, I learned that the pickups can make an even bigger difference than the body wood or body construction.  So add the pickups into the mix of hollow body construction factors, and you can see why many people may get very different results.

Maybe I got a super-stiffly-constructed 535?  Don't know.  To my ear, I'm able to coax pleasant-sounding tones from my guitars; some just require a little more judicious use of the tone knob compared to others.  And that's what really matters at the end of the day. 

All the best to all of you!

[Yooper]

My 535 is bright as well. It also has fuller mids with ThroBak ER Customs. (Neck 7.9K , Bridge 8.3K, Short A5 magnets)

Having more treble with the volume rolled back is a nice thing. Tone control is handy too. 

It twangs on the bridge, rocks in the middle,  and does warm jazz tones on the neck. Isn't that what a 535 is about? 

And a Millie gets you between a 535 and a 150. A very comfortable and happy place.

[bolero]

no worries, and I was in no way trying to be argumentive!

just surprised

my hollowbodies certainly have more bass than my solids

but, as we all know, different pieces of wood & different guitars sound....different!

 

[Steiner]

10 hours ago, bolero said:

interesting theory, but I have had the opposite experience: my hollowbodies have always sounded darker than my solidbodies

I have the same experience as you Bolero.  At high volume, the lower hollowbody's strings resonate with more energy than the highs.  I get the opposing resonance with the solids.

[cobo]

6 hours ago, bolero said:

no worries, and I was in no way trying to be argumentive!

just surprised

my hollowbodies certainly have more bass than my solids

but, as we all know, different pieces of wood & different guitars sound....different!

 

Likewise!  I also hope I didn't come across as argumentative; I certainly didn't mean it that way.

[Kuz]

My Custom order 555 (basically it's a 535 with 555 inlays), is the brightest set neck guitar I own.   It is also the lightest.   I have a 535 with P90s, it is a little heavier with a beefier neck.  It sounds a little darker.  I also have a 2016 Gibson ES-345.  It is MUCH darker, with the classic ES-335/345 tone.

That said, I think the Heritages project more and probably sustain more.  But no doubt about it (especially the Custom 555) the Heritages are brighter than Gibson ES-335/345s.   And my Heritage 555 & 535 are brighter than my solid body set neck guitars.