Try someting different (rant content)

[JeffB]

Ok Im venting here. Please excuse me if its not coherent, grammaticaly correct and theres spelling mistakes.

 

Im sick of people not even picking up a Heritage to even try them.

They take one look and say wheres your G666on's

You explain to them the story and the HERITAGE behind Heritage but they wont even try them.

We have some Gisbon's for them to try and to compare the Heritages with ad believe me you know the Heritage's stack up real well against the name brand. In my humble opinion bettr much better.

But they wont even try them. Why?

The Heritages we have sold have all gone to what I would probably describe as hard core gear junkies that have bought, own or owned lots of Gobsin's in search of a good one and have found it in a Heritage. In other words theyve stopped shopping by brand and started shopping with their hands and ears. The exception is a guy who swa me at a gig came over started chatting asked if he could check out my gear had a small play and asked to buy my H150. No way. Its mine.

He came in and bought his own one. Wealthy guy and likes nice things. Couldve bought any guitar. He just liked that it was different. Oh yeah, and it played and sounded great.

I just dont get the reluctance to try something different. It does my head in. Im not saying every Gonsib's is a dog, we know thats not true.

Theres a lot of good and superior products like Heritage in guitar land that just dont get a fair go, because people wont try them. The ones that do are rewarded with tone playability and something unique. Does no one want that anymore?

Ive come to the conclusion there is no hope for humanity and am suprised we got this far.

How can we hope to become truely civilised as a race if we are so blinkered and inflexible over things like guitar brands.

 

 

Oh well thats about it. Sorry if you read this

[shook494]

I'm glad you got that off your chest Tully I have to agree with you about the absolute quality of these fine instruments! The only reason I tried one in the first place was because I read the history of Heritage guitars on the web. I'm very glad I did. My two 150's are my babies and I would guard them with VIOLENCE. I grab those guitars more often than not. I also wish more people would try them out. Maybe the new add will help a little? At least we all know about them. My .2

[Spectrum13]

When given the freedom to have whatever they want...they get what everyone else has!  Like trying to teach a pig to sing, it just annoys the pig!

[guitarjump]

Marketing, peer pressure, image, brand loyalty, history.... all add up.

[Thundersteel]

That just means there's more for us!

[jacques]

Do you want assholes to buy a Heritage?

[yoslate]

Marketing, peer pressure, image, brand loyalty, history.... all add up.

 

 

Lemmings, herd mentality...seeing Republican or Democrat as the only options....  Our inherent insecurities make it difficult for most to take the road less traveled.  I suspect this is one of the reasons this forum works so well.  Those sorts of insecurites, which often lead to injured feelings, rants, and ad hominem attacks, just don't seem to exist among the players posting here!    8)

[brentrocks]

What pisses me off is when people say, "well, the headstock is so ugly"

 

MAN THAT MAKES ME MAD

[shook494]

I have to agree Brent.  I love the headstock.  I think it compliments these guitars very well!

[High Flying Bird]

Do you want assholes to buy a Heritage?

 

To late, I already own a few.

[OldCrow]

What pisses me off is when people say, "well, the headstock is so ugly"

 

MAN THAT MAKES ME MAD

 

No kidding. I dig the headstock after a little time with it.

 

It reminds me of old timey acoustics.

[pro-fusion]

I like the Heritage headstock--by having straighter string-pull than the G-word "open book", it's actually more functional.  And I like the understated quality of it.  Let your playing do the talking, and all that.

 

A lot of people are swayed by marketing hype and peer pressure.  Heck, look at all the people who buy a certain car or drink a crappy mass-produced beer just because they saw it on TV and "everyone else does."

 

But do we really need to weep for Heritage?  They're selling every guitar they can make and apparently have no desire to get bigger.  Heritage 'competes' with G-word only in the sense that they pick off a relative handful of the more practical customers who aren't blinded by marketing hype.

 

Given Heritage's lack of marketing, I'm often surprised at how many people on various Internet boards I run into who do know about the company and are interested in checking out the guitars.  Having access to a local dealer is probably the biggest issue facing potential Heritage customers.  Lots of people will buy G-words online without playing them first (usually a bad idea), but that's a harder sell with a less-known brand like Heritage.  Tully, I think you're right in saying that Heritages pretty much sell themselves once they get into a player's hands.  Having a good dealer network is the most important factor in that.

[Spectrum13]

Problem is once they sell themselves... you want more. I never had a desire to buy the complete set when it comes to G, F or R. Now it's like playing poker when the winning hand is....

 

Straight - 137 - 150 -155 -535 - 575

 

Royal Flush 555 -"16"- Milli Eagle - Eagle - Super Eagle

 

Pairs  150 & 157 with Buckers 150 & 157 P90's -525

[pro-fusion]

Problem is once they sell themselves... you want more. I never had a desire to buy the complete set when it comes to G, F or R. Now it's like playing poker when the winning hand is....

 

Straight - 137 - 150 -155 -535 - 575

 

Royal Flush 555 -"16"- Milli Eagle - Eagle - Super Eagle

 

Pairs  150 & 157 with Buckers 150 & 157 P90's -525

 

Ok, sir, step away from the credit card...    :laugh:

[PacerX]

Heritage has, in some cases, made their own bed here.

 

Part of it is a litany of quality issues that have continued to dog them.  They're getting better, I hope, but I know of more than one local Michigan dealer who had it up to his eyeballs with having to fix the damned things so often when they came in - so he dropped them.  GIBSON gave him less problems quality-wise.  If that doesn't open people's eyes here, nothing will.

 

 

 

The bar has risen from the old days.  You can't build 2 out of 10 any more that need repair, or need a significant amount of work to get right.  You can't build 2 out of 50 that do.  Fender will build 500 or 1,000 American Standards or American Deluxes in a row without having a significant quality issue, as will PRS and Taylor.

 

Taylor, does that... and then even goes to the extreme of "we make the best quality production acoustic guitars in the world - PERIOD.  And we don't care if you bought it used, if something on it broke or doesn't work due to a quality issue, we'll fix it - PERIOD."

 

Today's customers expect a guitar to be dead-on perfect quality-wise.  You can buy a dead-on perfect Mexican Standard Strat for what?  $400?  Walk down the aisle of our local top-notch music store, and there's a freaking wall full of them - every one of them flawless quality-wise.

 

At ~$2,000, Heritage better be selling a dead-on perfect guitar, needing only minor adjustment to accomodate a player's particular action or string gauge preferences.

 

At the price points Heritage is selling at, a set up being required is understandable - generally, guitar players at this level know that they're going to want it tweaked.  That being said, a badly cut nut, or electronics problem or other issue that is significantly detrimental is not acceptable.

 

 

 

For Heritage to truly become robust and viable in the long term, they are going to have to get to the point that every one that leaves the building on Parsons is FLAWLESS... or so close that you need a microscope to find the flaws.

 

At that point, THEN tell the story about the history...

[shook494]

Problem is once they sell themselves... you want more. I never had a desire to buy the complete set when it comes to G, F or R. Now it's like playing poker when the winning hand is....

 

Straight - 137 - 150 -155 -535 - 575

 

Royal Flush 555 -"16"- Milli Eagle - Eagle - Super Eagle

 

Pairs  150 & 157 with Buckers 150 & 157 P90's -525

 

 

 

I like this concept!!  Gives us something to shoot for!!

[cosmikdebriis]

The thing to do would be. Get your customers, sit them down in front of an amp... Blindfold them... Hand em half a dozen different guitars and see which on they prefer. ???

 

The problem would be. VERY few people would be prepared to do this. They/we would be afraid that we might choose the "wrong" guitar. When I say wrong, I mean the one that our peers would judge as wrong and make us look stupid. Or the not the one that we "wished" we had chosen in the first place :wink:

 

It's an interesting idea... But unlikely to catch on...

 

If we are really honest with ourselves. How many of us are so talented that we could choose a guitar irrespective of label but because we like it. And how much of our decision is based upon buying a brand that we feel reflects our talents or even wished for talents.

 

To look at it another way. Imagine standing on stage with, say, a cheapie Epiphone. Either you're going to have to play that thing till the audience ears bleed or they're going to think you're crap. You're going to need some serious self belief to put up with that. Far better to get out your Gibbon and then everyone will assume you know what you're doing regardless of talent:P

 

I may have exaggerated slightly to make my point but hopefully you can see where I'm coming from.

[guitarjump]

Heritage has, in some cases, made their own bed here.

 

Part of it is a litany of quality issues that have continued to dog them.  They're getting better, I hope, but I know of more than one local Michigan dealer who had it up to his eyeballs with having to fix the damned things so often when they came in - so he dropped them.  GIBSON gave him less problems quality-wise.  If that doesn't open people's eyes here, nothing will.

 

PacerX - that's interesting. The largest music retailer in the D.C. area (Chuck Levin's/Washington Music Center) said the same thing to me when I asked about Heritage guitars. They USED to carry them, but because of poor Q/C and lousy service they gave up on them and dropped the line. The only Heritage I ever poayed before I purchased my first one on the 'bay was a used one that just happened to land at the local Guitar Center. Once I tried it, I could tell what the fuss was about.

[JeffB]

The thing to do would be. Get your customers, sit them down in front of an amp... Blindfold them... Hand em half a dozen different guitars and see which on they prefer. ???

 

The problem would be. VERY few people would be prepared to do this. They/we would be afraid that we might choose the "wrong" guitar. When I say wrong, I mean the one that our peers would judge as wrong and make us look stupid. Or the not the one that we "wished" we had chosen in the first place :wink:

 

It's an interesting idea... But unlikely to catch on...

 

If we are really honest with ourselves. How many of us are so talented that we could choose a guitar irrespective of label but because we like it. And how much of our decision is based upon buying a brand that we feel reflects our talents or even wished for talents.

 

To look at it another way. Imagine standing on stage with, say, a cheapie Epiphone. Either you're going to have to play that thing till the audience ears bleed or they're going to think you're crap. You're going to need some serious self belief to put up with that. Far better to get out your Gibbon and then everyone will assume you know what you're doing regardless of talent:P

I may have exaggerated slightly to make my point but hopefully you can see where I'm coming from.

I gigged for a year with a yamaha Pacifica 112. No worries. Maybe I have overly high self esteem ;D

[jacques]

To late, I already own a few.

 

Well, Ron, you are just about the LAST person I think about when I imagine assholes....

 

But - what I really meant folks, is the following; and I will try and explain my feelings about this topic with an analogy.

Have you ever experienced this phenomenon: you have discovered some obscure band who've made one or two albums that nobody seems to know, except for a few fellow travelers with the same exquisite taste as your own. Then they start to break through. At first you think: ah, there's still justice ! But then they appear on tv, even on the ugliest shows. They make the hit parade and are heard in between all the other ugly hit songs. All kinds of people whose tastes are very unlike yours start liking them. They even know things about the musicians that you don't. Record companies force them to make more records. Pretty soon the lustre of the old days, when you secretly cherished their wonderful music in your den, is totally gone...

 

What would happen to our beloved small company when all the assholes would want a Heritage guitar?

[les paulverizer]

Well, Ron, you are just about the LAST person I think about when I imagine assholes....

 

But - what I really meant folks, is the following; and I will try and explain my feelings about this topic with an analogy.

Have you ever experienced this phenomenon: you have discovered some obscure band who've made one or two albums that nobody seems to know, except for a few fellow travelers with the same exquisite taste as your own. Then they start to break through. At first you think: ah, there's still justice ! But then they appear on tv, even on the ugliest shows. They make the hit parade and are heard in between all the other ugly hit songs. All kinds of people whose tastes are very unlike yours start liking them. They even know things about the musicians that you don't. Record companies force them to make more records. Pretty soon the lustre of the old days, when you secretly cherished their wonderful music in your den, is totally gone...

 

What would happen to our beloved small company when all the assholes would want a Heritage guitar?

 

This reminds me of what happened to Aerosmith, word by word.

The thing is that Aerosmith were kinda coerced into becomin'(a waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaayyyyyy better!) Bon Jovi (that's a cuss 7 letter word!) because of financial issues; the previous management ripped off left & right soooooo much that they had to....kinda "get a job" in order to pay for arrears, current bills and stuff henece, since they are musicians anyway, they did on in their own way what a lotta other players do in that situation; join a cover band. (Know what I'm sayin'...? :wink:)

The great thing with Heritage is that they don't have that kinda pressure, which all the other big companies have since they got so big(!) so they have the freedom to do what they do best, which is makin' great guitars!

When I bought my H150 I was on the look out for another Les Paul/type so I tried a-w-h-o-l-e-l-o-t-t-a  guitars, PRS's & Gibson's mainly, untill I came across to this H150 from the Texas Guitar Show, and there was no goin' back. Period.

When I say I tried a lot oif guitars I mean I tried the very best, Custom Shop stuff and all, so my Heritage won over some xtremely serious competition, but the sound, the feel, the mighty Tone was there in such great quantities that it was simply a "no-brainer".

The more I play it the more I luv it, the more serious experienced musicians hear it the more they luv it! Simple as that. 8)

I'm not aware of any quality issues , probably cuz mine was second-hand...

[Kuz]

Well, Ron, you are just about the LAST person I think about when I imagine assholes....

 

But - what I really meant folks, is the following; and I will try and explain my feelings about this topic with an analogy.

Have you ever experienced this phenomenon: you have discovered some obscure band who've made one or two albums that nobody seems to know, except for a few fellow travelers with the same exquisite taste as your own. Then they start to break through. At first you think: ah, there's still justice ! But then they appear on tv, even on the ugliest shows. They make the hit parade and are heard in between all the other ugly hit songs. All kinds of people whose tastes are very unlike yours start liking them. They even know things about the musicians that you don't. Record companies force them to make more records. Pretty soon the lustre of the old days, when you secretly cherished their wonderful music in your den, is totally gone...

 

What would happen to our beloved small company when all the assholes would want a Heritage guitar?

 

My thoughts exactly!!!!!

[cosmikdebriis]

I'm not aware of any quality issues , probably cuz mine was second-hand...

 

Yes.... I'm with you... There's a lot to be said for buying a guitar second hand. Most "issues" will have been sorted by the previous owner. :wink:

[JeffB]

In my original post I wasnt actually bemoaning Heritages success or lack of it or whatever.

I just dont understand why people wont try different things.

Another example is a brand of guitars that make alot of other brands guitars. They all come out of the same factory made by the same people and probably for the most part the same machines.

But when confronted with a choice and armed with the knowledge above, people will still opt for the name brand and the $50(or more) upcharge.

Truth is the cheaper home  brand is normally finished better.

I guess Im more trying to come to terms with........I dont know!!!.... Human nature?

 

[pro-fusion]

In my original post I wasnt actually bemoaning Heritages success or lack of it or whatever.

I just dont understand why people wont try different things.

 

Beyond the herd mentality that we've already discussed here, I think there might be another factor at work, particularly as it relates to high-end guitars.  Pop music, including jazz, has largely ossified and lacks the innovative spirit of earlier decades. 

 

This is especially true of music that incorporates guitar.  Everything is retro these days, and the choice of guitars so often seems to be about a particular retro image rather than musical substance.  You *have* to play a Tele for country, a Strat or Les Paul for classic rock, a pointy thing for metal, a big ol' box for jazz, a Jaguar/Jazzmaster for punk, etc. etc.  And it had better be the brand name if you want to be taken seriously.  I'm old enough to remember when one's choice of guitars was as much practical and financial as it was image-driven.

 

We fetishize these things now, but it's worth remembering that those 1959 Les Pauls were moldering away unwanted in pawnshops when Clapton and then Green rescued them for use in the Blues Breakers.  Les Pauls were again moldering away unwanted in pawnshops (except the ones I owned) in 1985 before Slash made them popular again a couple of years later.

 

When Hendrix broke big, the Strat was a moldy oldy in the middle of Fender's product line, below the much 'hipper' Jaguar.  He received Strats by the box load from CBS and beat them like a mule--he certainly didn't agonize over every little detail.  I don't think his guitars lasted long enough for him to do that.   ;D

 

Carlos Santana played some of his best-sounding and most accomplished guitar work (IMHO) around the time of Borboletta and the resulting tours--on a hideously ugly Gibson L6-S.  You couldn't give those things away until just a couple of years ago.

 

On another thread we've been discussing the $25,000 replica of Eddie Van Halen's cheapo parts guitar.  I think that one speaks for itself.

 

But all of that stuff happened so long ago.  If there ever is another popular guitar innovator, my guess is that he'll come out of left field playing on an instrument that none of us would think of picking up now.  It's also worth noting that many of the best studio and session guys play custom-built instruments that aren't trendy at all.  And that a lot of endorsers of the big brands play some of their funky old favorite guitars in the studio--the ones that have the mojo.

 

Maybe this is a long-winded explanation of my point, but I think it illustrates why G-word can charge obscene prices for inferior versions of designs that are 50 years old.  People aren't buying a guitar as much as they're buying an image, a talisman of their youth (or what they thought their youth was like).  And the young guys do it too because there's nothing new going on right now and they go for the retro chic.