Solid State Amps..any takers?

[212Mavguy]

What KBP 810 most eloquently said...and speaking from the standpoint of the guy that was the first to pen the phrase, over and over again...

Boutique amps for boutique guitars, 

Boutique guitars for boutique amps!

 

[rwinking]

There is a public radio show that airs from here called Live From the Divide and I occasionally play on it. The studio bought one of the new Fenders and it is pretty amazing. The acts that come in from the road want a deluxe reverb and unbeknownst to them play through the new modeled deluxe. After the show it is pointed out that they were playing through a non tube amp and to a person, they have been amazed.

I am stubborn and did not want to like the amp but I do.

[rockabilly69]

NO

[DetroitBlues]

8 hours ago, rockabilly69 said:

NO

 

Congrats on 4,000 posts!!!

[rockabilly69]

39 minutes ago, DetroitBlues said:

 

Congrats on 4,000 posts!!!

With only 2 letters!!!! Whoo Hoo!

[Gitfiddler]

1 hour ago, rockabilly69 said:

With only 2 letters!!!! Whoo Hoo!

And no edits to #2000 post!

Congratulations, sir.

[Hfan]

On 11/20/2019 at 11:35 AM, Gitfiddler said:

Back in the day, it appeared that only Roland's JC120 was the only solid state amp worthy of taking on stage.  And that is one heavy a$$ amp!  Now there are quite a few great sounding solid state amps and modelers to consider.

From reading all of the positive reviews about Fender's new Tone Master Twin (35 lbs with built-in attenuation!?) amp, I'm ready to consider going tubeless...maybe.   

After hearing about the new Fenders I did a search. A month ago there was a thread on TGP of over 100 pages..if anyone is really bored. I skimmed a few pages. It seems some love them, others say they are a one trick pony and other brand options may be as good with more versatility.

 

[DetroitBlues]

1 hour ago, Hfan said:

After hearing about the new Fenders I did a search. A month ago there was a thread on TGP of over 100 pages..if anyone is really bored. I skimmed a few pages. It seems some love them, others say they are a one trick pony and other brand options may be as good with more versatility.

 

I think the new Fenders are basically, analog solid state amps.  My guess they took the idea from Peavey and Quilter, but using their own unique voicing.  

One of the biggest issues with solid state is the confusion between digital modeling and analog circuitry.

Many agree analog circuitry does come close to tube amp tones.  

Digital modeling is in the ballpark, but rather unreliable, often finicky, and puts many users in tweaker paralysis.

Both are often put in the same camp.  To me, that's like taking a fully hollowbody with humbuckers in the same category as a solid body single coil guitar.  Sure they are electric guitars, but they are not the same in sound or functionality.

 

When everyone above mentions the different tones, articulation, bloom, etc.. of a tube amp, the problem is most people cannot turn their tube amps up enough to get the power tubes to react that way (most of what everyone is talking about is related to the power section of a tube amp).

So to many solid state amps, analog or digital fit the bill because to their ears (and I will say my ears too), the non-tube amps sounds the nearly identical because we cannot turn tube amps up loud enough to really hear the difference.

I think that is why solid state amps are the getting more popular, even among the pros.

Not to mention, when in a band environment, I think the nuances of tube amps is lost with digital effects, compressed processing, and digital recordings.

[kennyv4]

I own a fair share of American made tube amps and I love the tone but not the weight.  I am fortunate enough to have two residences.  I play in a snowbird band in Florida and I was not going to lug around a tube amp, so I purchased a Boss Katana 100 watt amp.  The Boss is adequate for my needs.  I recently picked up a Quilter Labs 101 amp head for a backup.  I like the sound of both amps.  The Boss has a lot of features, so there is no need for a pedal board if you purchase the Boss footswitch.  The quilter has better sound, which is amazing considering how little it weighs, but neither sound as good as a decent tube amp. IMO the Quilter sound is closer to the sound of a tube amp than the Boss amp.   

[Hfan]

On 11/20/2019 at 9:34 PM, kbp810 said:

Eh... if it sounds good to your ears, that's all that matters; and in the hands of someone who has things dialed in, and hitting all the right notes, it's probably going to sound good to most others as well. 

Myself, however, am one of those cork sniffin' tube aficionado types. My ears are sensitive to details and highlights. When I'm playing for myself, or listening, and I mean really listening, to what's coming out of someones amp... my ears long to not only hear the note, but what happens immediately after the note. That harmonic, bloom, chime, after note, momentary decay, etc... that tiny little, blink (with your ears), and you'll miss it detail, that happens in that instant after a note is played. And while I have heard some amazing sounding SS amps (which were also conveniently paired with amazing playing), I have yet to hear one that legitimately reproduces this effect in the same way that a tube does (to my ears). 

Then there is also the way a guitar can interact and manipulate a tube amp... you sort of become one with the amp, and figure out how to strike a note of chord just so to either get a tight accurate sound, or heavier attack to get some grit or sag. Yes, you can get some interaction with an SS amp, but not at the same level of character you can coax out of tubes. 

That's not to say I think anyone else should think or feel the same way I do on the matter... it's just the way my ears work and what they want to hear. 

Nice to hear from you!. And, coincidentally, the excellent Reverb Deluxe you made for me back in 2012 or so is one reason I'm even thinking about a "non tube" amp. It was making some funny noises, and I was swapping out V1 and V2 I assumed that one of those would cause odd noises ..only using one channel etc.. worked for a while .. eventually I found it was the pre amp tube right next to the pwr tubes. I'm probably due for a new crop of spares.

[Genericmusic]

On 11/22/2019 at 8:35 AM, DetroitBlues said:

When everyone above mentions the different tones, articulation, bloom, etc.. of a tube amp, the problem is most people cannot turn their tube amps up enough to get the power tubes to react that way (most of what everyone is talking about is related to the power section of a tube amp).

So to many solid state amps, analog or digital fit the bill because to their ears (and I will say my ears too), the non-tube amps sounds the nearly identical because we cannot turn tube amps up loud enough to really hear the difference.

I think that is why solid state amps are the getting more popular, even among the pros.

Not to mention, when in a band environment, I think the nuances of tube amps is lost with digital effects, compressed processing, and digital recordings.

This! They have a purpose. 

[rockabilly69]

On 11/22/2019 at 6:35 AM, DetroitBlues said:

When everyone above mentions the different tones, articulation, bloom, etc.. of a tube amp, the problem is most people cannot turn their tube amps up enough to get the power tubes to react that way (most of what everyone is talking about is related to the power section of a tube amp).

So to many solid state amps, analog or digital fit the bill because to their ears (and I will say my ears too), the non-tube amps sounds the nearly identical because we cannot turn tube amps up loud enough to really hear the difference.

 

DB you would think the problem of high volume is limited home practice, but I HATE recording loud guitar amps. It seems it's always causing something in my small project studio to rattle when the amps get cranked, so I collect little amps that aren't as loud and give up there tone at a reasonable volume. None of them are ear splitting...

 

 

 

And the Regal II in this picture can be loaded with just one 6V6 tube with a 5Y3 rectifier and it's totally manageable volume wise...

[Genericmusic]

I have 10 amps, 7 are tube and 3 solid state. All acquired through the years with a specific purpose or sound to accomplish a task. Simply put they are tools. This is  long read but a short skim about this very topic of tube vs. solid state amps. It really is all about personal taste . I threw in the video because GM knows tone.  

 

https://spinditty.com/instruments-gear/Tube-Amp-vs-Solid-State-Which-Best-Guitar-Amp-You 

 

 

 

[rwinking]

SO the way I understand the new Fender's is this.....Yes, they are a one trick pony and they do that trick well. Unlike other modeling amps, they used all of the processing power to emulate just one amp instead of several....you get either the deluxe or the twin and not an AC30, Plexi, etc. It is for people who just want the sound of a Deluxe or a Twin and nothing more. They are lighter and you don't have to deal with tubes. I was at a rehearsal and one guy was using the new deluxe. My tube amp started making preamp tube noise and I said to him "Can your amp do that?"

[JeffB]

A friend used to play through an old 70's Acoustic brand guitar/bass amp. It was a ss head, I cant find pics on teh webz because if I type in Acoustic guitar amp I get rolands and other acoustic guitar amps.

He used od pedals in front of it for gain. 

He had one of the best guitar sounds I had heard. He was a good player and musician. When I tried to play through his gear everything sounded clunky and it felt lifeless and it sucked all my self esteem.  

Eventually, around 2008, the amp died.

 

Theres more to the story but its quite long windy and its already 2:00am.  I think the key points are already all there.

 

[tsp17]

39 minutes ago, JeffB said:

Theres more to the story but its quite long windy and its already 2:00am.  I think the key points are already all there.

 

LOL.  Less is usually more anyway...

[Genericmusic]

5 hours ago, JeffB said:

When I tried to play through his gear everything sounded clunky and it felt lifeless and it sucked all my self esteem.  

 I can relate to that! 

It was probably an acoustic 270 or 370 amp. I used one during the 70's for a while when I performed out doors. Great amp and took pedals really well. I sold it a few years back. 

[RhoadsScholar]

Those new Fender ToneMasters are great.  I have been playing the Twin Reverb ToneMaster and it sounds great for classic rock, clean surf, jazz, you name it.  works great in a band setting and takes effects well. They make a Deluxe and and a Twin (21lbs and 33 lbs respectively). Still have a couple KPB810's (aka Brian's amps), a Princeton and a Concert along with my Mustang III and some modeler's but fender is doing something right with these ToneMaster's.  Playing is believing but no one had them in stock (had to order)

[bolero]

I have a couple old SS amps that actually sound pretty good

my practice amp is SS,  saves wear on tubes

John Fogerty got some great sounds out of his Kustom

keep on chooglin'

whether it's solid state or tooblin'

 

[ElNumero]

I still have a Peavey Transtube Bandit and a Peavey Transtube Express, both purchased in the 90's and work perfectly and still sound amazing. They are my go to amps when wifey is home in the evening. 

[EllenGtrGrl]

On 11/20/2019 at 3:30 PM, AP515 said:

I have a, now getting pretty old, Peavey "red stripe" SS amp.  I like it.  Sounds good but without that bloom you get with tubes.  Still it is easy to haul around and gets a good tone without the volume requirement.  At practice volumes or for lessons, it's a great way to go.  If you are talking about gig's I'd still go with tubes.

Yep, I have one too - a Red Stripe Studio Pro 112.  It gets the job done for me, and unlike my old tube amps, I don't have to just about break my back to carry it.  I've been playing for 41 years, and in my experience, there are both good and bad, when it comes to tube and solid state amps.  For example: 

A.)  The all tube Sound City 120 head I had for a short time after I graduated college in the 80s, had have the fartiest tones I've ever heard from an amp.

B.)  The Fender Hot Rod Series - absolutely awful sounding drive/dirt channels.  IMO, why even include that feature on those amps, since almost everybody who uses them, ends up resorting to a dirt box, for decent sounding distortion tones. 

C.)  The infamous Line 6 Spyder.

D.)  The (IMO) mediocre sounding Marshall MG series amps.

[DetroitBlues]

On 11/24/2019 at 10:16 PM, rockabilly69 said:

DB you would think the problem of high volume is limited home practice, but I HATE recording loud guitar amps. It seems it's always causing something in my small project studio to rattle when the amps get cranked, so I collect little amps that aren't as loud and give up there tone at a reasonable volume. None of them are ear splitting...

 

 

 

And the Regal II in this picture can be loaded with just one 6V6 tube with a 5Y3 rectifier and it's totally manageable volume wise...

Sorry, I cannot focus on your amps... The guitars are drawing too much attention....

[DetroitBlues]

20 hours ago, EllenGtrGrl said:

Yep, I have one too - a Red Stripe Studio Pro 112.  It gets the job done for me, and unlike my old tube amps, I don't have to just about break my back to carry it.  I've been playing for 41 years, and in my experience, there are both good and bad, when it comes to tube and solid state amps.  For example: 

A.)  The all tube Sound City 120 head I had for a short time after I graduated college in the 80s, had have the fartiest tones I've ever heard from an amp.

B.)  The Fender Hot Rod Series - absolutely awful sounding drive/dirt channels.  IMO, why even include that feature on those amps, since almost everybody who uses them, ends up resorting to a dirt box, for decent sounding distortion tones. 

C.)  The infamous Line 6 Spyder.

D.)  The (IMO) mediocre sounding Marshall MG series amps.

I did have a USA Redstripe Bandit 112.  That sounded good... The rest on your list... 

Fender HRD's required modification to sound good.  Probably why many prefer the Blues Deluxe over it.

Spyders... how often we associate solid state with those pixel-screen of death boxes.

MG Series, the only way to get a full stack to look impressive until you play through it....

[AP515]

4 hours ago, DetroitBlues said:

I did have a USA Redstripe Bandit 112.  That sounded good... The rest on your list... 

Fender HRD's required modification to sound good.  Probably why many prefer the Blues Deluxe over it.

Spyders... how often we associate solid state with those pixel-screen of death boxes.

MG Series, the only way to get a full stack to look impressive until you play through it....

So the consensus seems to be that we like the Bandit red strips...Check

We hate the HRD gain channel...Check

The line 6 sucks...Check

I've never played the MG but I'll take your word for it.

[tulk1]

Just to pile in here, altho' I may be a bit late to the game. No real need to mention all the tube amps I've played over the years. But recently I dumped them all for a Quilter Aviator. Got to admit it took a week or so of playing to get used to it. Not unlike my many other amps, or even guitars. Before that, I had used a Mesa TA-15 (oops, mentioned an amp!). I played probably 6 gigs with the Aviator before Tracy (singer, boss) even noticed. And what she noticed was the combo amp as opposed to head/cabinet. Honestly, she has been VERY vocal about the amps I've used thru the years, and this one passed muster with flying colors.

The Quilter Aviator 112 weighs a whopping 26lbs!! Not sure what fairy dust Pat Quilter is using, but he knows how to use it. Don't miss those other amps at all. Except as maybe a nostalgia thang.