cosmikdebriis Posted January 11, 2009 Author Posted January 11, 2009 ...and we also now have Jerrys site for our lefty fix. I just want to add my support for him too... He seems a nice guy and I wish him all the luck in the world. (even if he does sell backwards guitars for backwards people) ;D
SouthpawGuy Posted January 11, 2009 Posted January 11, 2009 I just want to add my support for him too... He seems a nice guy and I wish him all the luck in the world. (even if he does sell backwards guitars for backwards people) ;D ...and I hear he also exports to the UK ! 8)
OldCrow Posted January 11, 2009 Posted January 11, 2009 ...and I hear he also exports to the UK ! 8) You won't be disappointed, I got my Wine 150 from Jerry and he's awesome to deal with.
SouthpawGuy Posted January 11, 2009 Posted January 11, 2009 You won't be disappointed, I got my Wine 150 from Jerry and he's awesome to deal with. I got my blue ash body ASAT III from Jerry, great guitar ! I nearly got a Heritage from Jerry a few weeks back but the opportunity of the 170 and Stat came along at the exact same time :undecided: and I couldn't refuse those.
OldCrow Posted January 11, 2009 Posted January 11, 2009 I got my blue ash body ASAT III from Jerry, great guitar ! I nearly got a Heritage from Jerry a few weeks back but the opportunity of the 170 and Stat came along at the exact same time :undecided: and I couldn't refuse those. Don't blame ya! That 170 you got has been giving me gas since I saw it.
yoslate Posted January 11, 2009 Posted January 11, 2009 ...I DON'T THINK IT IS...WEIRD...TO DO NOTHING AND NOT CARE WHAT PEOPLE THINK.... As I get within a year or two of retirement (and I've been doing my job for only twenty-nine years), this "world view" begins to make more and more sense to me...seems more and more like a favorite old flannel shirt or pair of resoled shoes I'm happy wearing day after day! Not, of course, doing literally nothing, but "nothing" in the sense of not changing something which has always worked for me, to suit someone else. This recalcitrance may seem, to someone outside my experience, foolish, naive, or as though I just don't care. Fact is, I simply have no compelling reason, no intention, to live someone else's idealized version of my own life! And having met Jim, Marvin, and J.P., craftsmen of the first order who've plied their trade for fifty years with near mythic creative, if not business, success, I can see why an updated website just doesn't happen (Vince's welcome presence notwithstanding). We can speculate all we want about the effects of a state-of-the-art web presence on the fortunes of Heritage Guitars. Clearly, it's not a priority on Parsons Street...and I'll probably get an endorsement deal before it is. I just can't see any of those guys perched in an Aeron chair for hours on end, sweating layout and font for the new models on the site, nor caring if someone else was, when they could be matching up some maple for a 150 top, spraying an almond burst 525...or playing golf....
Kuz Posted January 11, 2009 Posted January 11, 2009 I'm 46 (I'd guess about average age here).I'm 42. I guess we're going to have to differ on the importance of the web page. No problem. You posed the question and I gave my take on it. Interestingly though, despite only a few people having posted comments, as it were, "on my side" the votes cast so far show a very different story with over 80% going for a complete re design. I LOVED FOR NEW DESIGN. But again don't have to keep the light on at Parsons St. If it were up to me running Heritage, and I wanted to grow the business a new web site would have come BEFORE Vince joined. But it isn't up to us and we don't know Heritages' business goals or plan. It's not, for me at least, really a question of accepting reality. I'm not suggesting anything we say or do here will actually make a difference. The idea was just to debate the subject. Fine we agree, but be open to opininons that contradict yours. To be perfectly honest I was hoping to get more of the newer members involved and, so far, I have to admit, I appear to have failed. Maybe the "confrontational" elements in this debate have been a little off putting? I'd hope not. Some people do seem to be voting but not posting. Perhaps they just feel it's all been said before or perhaps they just "don't want to get involved" in our (at times) rather heated debate. Reading the posts, I see a health communication back in forth. It wasn't until you stated my comments as "WEIRD" that I thought anyone was being "confrontational". Never said that your points were "bizarre" until you got combative. If you pose a question and just want everyone to accept your position, it's more like Europe of 1939. One thing I did do, by way of research was check out Wolfe Guitars web site. Made me wonder if perhaps they should come to a deal with them and get them to organise/incorporate it? I know for a fact that Jay has private consults with the Heritage owners directly (where they have come down to Florida) to talk about new products and marketing. So HEY, here we are close to agreeing on a point in this topic. But I also know straight from the owners lips, that getting in bed with only a few big shops vs many smaller stores--- "the bigger dealers always want an unrealistic price break, so we try not to deal with only a few large dealers" My final comments. Cosmic I have no problem with you. We just have a difference of opinion.
pushover Posted January 11, 2009 Posted January 11, 2009 I've never been a fan of the web site, and think Heritage would benefit (as in more sales, and more satisfied customers who go their to find stuff out and learn about Heritage guitars from the web site) from a better web site, but I personally am in the "don't care" category. There seem to be many things we puzzle about regarding the folks at Parsons st. They have an add in the guitar magazine one month, but not the next? It's not clear whether that's part of a plan, or just a budgetary restriction, or what? I do think however, that updating the web site alone is only part of the overall "picture". Some of the issues that Jerry brings up in terms of advertising campaigns for increased brand recognition, etc which would improve sales are really what would be needed in conjunction with a new web site to step up to the next level. It does seem however that Heritage isn't really interested in stepping things up. They seem happy where they are, and I base this on the comments from the forum members who know them personally. So if they're happy where they are, it probably doesn't make any sense to change the web-site. If they do decide to change the web site, then they should also consider all of the other things they would also want to do next to attract people to the web site, and to Heritage guitars in general.
JeffB Posted January 11, 2009 Posted January 11, 2009 Sometimes when we buy a product that we really like and are passionate about we feel some kind of affiliation with, or ownership of the company that made the product. Like following your fav football, cricket, or what ever sports team. You sit on the side lines and comment on every decision made regarding management off field and play on field. How you disagree with this and that, and if it was up to you you would have done it that way and we wouldnt be in this mess if only they listened to the rank and file. Spectators know more than anyone else. They are far more qualified than both club management, coaching staff and players. But often the spectators are excluded from the decision making process despite their deep in site, experience and wishes for the future of the club. It seems to me a lot of people on this forum only buy s/h Heritage guitars. Do Heritage need to upgrade their site so people can research their next ebay purchase? ;D
cosmikdebriis Posted January 11, 2009 Author Posted January 11, 2009 It does seem however that Heritage isn't really interested in stepping things up. They seem happy where they are, and I base this on the comments from the forum members who know them personally. So if they're happy where they are, it probably doesn't make any sense to change the web-site. If they do decide to change the web site, then they should also consider all of the other things they would also want to do next to attract people to the web site, and to Heritage guitars in general. Regards the first part of what you say. My argument was not particularly to increase sales. But partly just to look proficient. Regards the "So if they're happy where they are, it probably doesn't make any sense to change the web-site" I think many dealers may have a different view on that. Supporting their dealers is reason enough to take the matter more seriously regardless of the many other issues. Regards the "they should also consider all of the other things" I agree 100% though that is a little out of the scope of this particular thread.
cosmikdebriis Posted January 11, 2009 Author Posted January 11, 2009 Here's a little quote from the Wolfe web site to counter in some way much of my argument... "Because Heritage AND Wolfe Guitars carefully control overhead and expensive promotions, Heritage Guitars are surprisingly affordable".
pro-fusion Posted January 12, 2009 Posted January 12, 2009 If I were going to give Heritage the benefit of my useless advice, I would tell them to greatly simplify the web site. Focus primarily on BIG pictures of their beautiful guitars. The guitars pretty much sell themselves, IMHO. If they don't intend to do regular updates, then don't put dates on it and tell the viewer to contact their dealer for details. The funny thing is, the big money web sites that Gibson and Jackson have are also confusing messes. The best guitar co. web site I've seen is probably Carvin's. But since they only sell direct, their web site pretty much *has* to be good.
Spectrum13 Posted January 12, 2009 Posted January 12, 2009 Guess I'm the only "let it be" vote. Back in the 60's I used a catalogue to purchase from Parson's street. Anyone can learn all they need to know from the dealers and this forum so let them guys build stuff. The site has Mojo! :afro:
shark_bite Posted January 12, 2009 Posted January 12, 2009 I think it's in everyone's interest for Heritage to continue onward with the status quo. If their business model is to have incredibly talented and experienced guitar builder building instruments by hand, then it stands to reason that if they're selling what they're making, they're doing it right. If they started to get a backlog of orders that could only be satisfied by traditional "organic growth" someone on their end might make a little more money, but they'd either have to start working 14-hour days or they'd have to bring in less talented, less experienced people to assist. It's THEIR heritage - I don't think they'll ever be comfortable leaving it in the hands of a bunch of newbies, no matter HOW good they are. Or - worse - a bunch of robots. What I love about Heritage is that we're all part of a pretty small club here - you don't see these guitars every day. They're still a relatively well-kept secret. So they're not terribly expensive, all things considered, and they are at the apex of quality. They look great, they sound great, and they'll be rare and collectible during most of our lifetimes. Well, especially mine as I'm only 25. This isn't quite the equivalent of getting to go back in time and buy a 59 'burst for a few hundred bucks, but it may as well be. One day they're either going to close the factory or the last of the original Gibson employees will retire. The company will never be the same. So really... I don't care about the website. They seem to be doing fine - they're still building damn good guitars, and that's all that matters to me. I'd like five more.
yoslate Posted January 13, 2009 Posted January 13, 2009 Way to wail on your first post, shark_bite! I think you've echoed the sentiments of many of the long-timers here, certainly not all, but many. And that is one of the cool things about this place: we can agree to disagree. Welcome to the forum!
Kuz Posted January 13, 2009 Posted January 13, 2009 Yes, Karma up Shark Bite. I can't disagree with any of your points. We would to see pics of any Heritage you have, so I guess I am making an exception here giving you Karma without posting a pic. So (despite this one time exception) :this_thread_is_useless_withou
cosmikdebriis Posted January 13, 2009 Author Posted January 13, 2009 And a thumbs up from me too... Welcome to the forum and thank you indeed for joining in on this debate. You're views are gratefully received. Some new blood, not scared to give an opinion, is just what we need to keep things healthy here. I was just going to give you a Karma up... But got pipped to the post by Kuz. I should second the warning though... People can get all upset if you don't post pics of your guitars. :wink: ;D
shark_bite Posted January 13, 2009 Posted January 13, 2009 Haha, thanks fellas. I'll put a pic up of my only Heritage so far once I get my camera/computer situation sorted out. Hopefully sometime tonight. Any of you who are TGP-ers might know me by the same name there... but I drank the Heritage Kool-Aid and it tasted goooood.
Paul P Posted January 13, 2009 Posted January 13, 2009 I think it's in everyone's interest for Heritage to continue onward with the status quo. If their business model is to have incredibly talented and experienced guitar builder building instruments by hand, then it stands to reason that if they're selling what they're making, they're doing it right. If they started to get a backlog of orders that could only be satisfied by traditional "organic growth" someone on their end might make a little more money, but they'd either have to start working 14-hour days or they'd have to bring in less talented, less experienced people to assist. It's THEIR heritage - I don't think they'll ever be comfortable leaving it in the hands of a bunch of newbies, no matter HOW good they are. Or - worse - a bunch of robots. I mostly agree with you but I think there's room for an apprentice or two to be assigned to the current masters, who could eventually carry the torch onward. I don't know what Heritage's plans are in this respect but there's a lot of similarity between what they do (and the way they do it) and traditional cabinetmakers. These always had an apprentice to do the basic stuff, the hard simple work making use of their youth, while they learned the trade by osmosis. The thing with apprentices though is that they weren't paid, or hardly, other than maybe room and board. Does such a young person still exist ? One that would be prepared to slug away at it for what, seven years ?, for little or no pay, to learn the trade of a lifetime ? Would our society let them ? Heritage probably doesn't have the financial means to hire a bunch of newbies for minimum wage or more and hope that they stay on afterwards. But they could probably put up with a few that didn't cost them anything and had the spirit to follow in their footsteps. I see this as about the only way Heritage could continue to be what it is, and have that continue on past the eventual retirement of they current masters. Paul P
pro-fusion Posted January 14, 2009 Posted January 14, 2009 Heritage has quite a few younger employees, AFAIK, and I thought part of the idea of bringing Vince in as a co-owner was to ensure continuity once the founders decide to take up fishing full-time. Now, whether this actually happens is another matter.
Paul P Posted January 14, 2009 Posted January 14, 2009 Heritage has quite a few younger employees, AFAIK, and I thought part of the idea of bringing Vince in as a co-owner was to ensure continuity once the founders decide to take up fishing full-time. Glad to hear it. Are there enough of them ? I've been under the impression that the oldtimers were still doing most of the work. I'm just back into the world of Heritage after a bit of a leave of absence so I'm not up to date about what's going on at the factory like the rest of you. Paul P
pro-fusion Posted January 14, 2009 Posted January 14, 2009 Glad to hear it. Are there enough of them ? I've been under the impression thatthe oldtimers were still doing most of the work. I'm just back into the world of Heritage after a bit of a leave of absence so I'm not up to date about what's going on at the factory like the rest of you. I can't say I'm totally up on what's going on with Heritage, but there's a very good article about Heritage in a local K'Zoo magazine called "Encore". It's linked on the Heritage web site and somewhere around here, also. According to the article, Heritage has about 20 employees, including a number of younger people who never worked for Gibson. Vince himself is only about 40 or so, I believe. And I'm pretty sure the article expressly states that the founders would like to see the company continue after they retire. I think the idea is that the founders will train the younger people to make the guitars properly, with Vince primarily handling business affairs.
cosmikdebriis Posted January 14, 2009 Author Posted January 14, 2009 I'd like to think Heritage will continue. Hopefully in much the same vein. (I suppose some of you may be surprised I think that) Maybe some new "young blood" will add another dimension. Youthful enthusiasm... (I think I may have had that once, but it was a long time ago) ;D Hopefully they may be a bit more "web aware" too:wink:
jerrysleftyguitars Posted January 14, 2009 Posted January 14, 2009 A lot of the discussion has centered on the assumption that Heritage has the work (guitar building) that they can keep up with and would not want any more. So no reason to change anything (like the website) because it would attract more business. They are only working 4 day weeks at the moment. I did not ask why, but I would not be surprised it is because they don't want to completely catch up with existing orders. I know they have been doing promotions to the dealers lately to get more orders.
cosmikdebriis Posted January 15, 2009 Author Posted January 15, 2009 They are only working 4 day weeks at the moment. I know they have been doing promotions to the dealers lately to get more orders. I'm not sure how to take that news... It's kinda worrying though. I hope things are okay. Perhaps on the brighter side it is often smaller companies that survive in a financial crisis because they are more adaptable. Hopefully they're not in too much debt to the banks. Whilst we're on the subject... Hope you're business is doing okay too. These are scary times. My business has seen a definite downturn but so far not too bad. Luckily for me I haven't had to borrow money, I'm firmly in the black. I'm owed approx $30,000 though. Hopefully none of my debtors will go bust.
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