Heritage Blowout thread

[rwinking]

Was the thread for the CME heritage blow out taken down? Why? Was it controversial?

[Gitfiddler]

 

[davesultra]

My guess is that Big H wasn’t too happy about it.

[High Flying Bird]

Hahaha...  In 2016 I standing inside of 225 Parsons and told a fellow member that the spirit of Heritage was dead.  He didn't believe me.  I suspect that the powers that, now, be at 225 Parsons didn't like a retailer selling their guitars so low and had their feelings hurt.  Well... bless their little fuckin' hearts. 

Back in the day we all knew that Heritage would soon come to an end.  It happened in 2016.  I hope the old timers made a bucketful of cash when they sold the joint.  I would have done the same thing if I were them.  One prolific member here said that Heritage had Mojo.  You can buy the building, you can buy the trademark and you can buy new blood but you can't buy Mojo.  Can I get an Amen?

[JeffB]

 

[Polo]

Shortly after the thread was deleted I reached out to inquire whether the post had violated any forum rules.

 

The response was:

"No, not at all.  But CME and Heritage asked it to be removed.  I guess the Rep wasn't supposed to put wholesale prices in writing".

 

A response that I rather find amusing AND par for the course on all accounts.....

[Steiner]

It never occurred to me to call Swee twater or Guitar denter and ask them to beat those prices

[DetroitBlues]

Out of respect for both CME and Heritage, the original post and its subsequent responses were deleted.

It turned out to be a too good to be true situation; a rogue representative of CME overstepped his position and was unauthorized to offer guitars CME paid for and left no profit for CME.

CME was more hurt in the sale than Heritage.

 

 

 

[deytookerjaabs]

Liquidating NOS inventory at or near cost is not even close to out of the ordinary over at CME. I lived two blocks from there for years and still know a few of the fellas around the shop. "Overstepping"...yeah. Blame the sales guy. Still plenty of 2018 NOS Heritage guitars on Reverb for those who want to take the plunge!!

 

 

 

[skydog52]

CME is still making money on them. So did Heritage just not as much when you blow them out the door by both of them. 

[Gitfiddler]

7 minutes ago, skydog52 said:

CME is still making money on them. So did Heritage just not as much when you blow them out the door by both of them. 

...And every guitar sold (at whatever price) by CME reduces their inventory tax liability.   

The only 'problem' I see is that the CME blowout prices were put in writing.  Typically they request potential customers seriously interested, should call for 'blowout prices'.

[davesultra]

13 hours ago, High Flying Bird said:

Hahaha...  In 2016 I standing inside of 225 Parsons and told a fellow member that the spirit of Heritage was dead.  He didn't believe me.  I suspect that the powers that, now, be at 225 Parsons didn't like a retailer selling their guitars so low and had their feelings hurt.  Well... bless their little fuckin' hearts. 

Back in the day we all knew that Heritage would soon come to an end.  It happened in 2016.  I hope the old timers made a bucketful of cash when they sold the joint.  I would have done the same thing if I were them.  One prolific member here said that Heritage had Mojo.  You can buy the building, you can buy the trademark and you can buy new blood but you can't buy Mojo.  Can I get an Amen?

I'm going to have to give Ron an "Amen" on this one. Late this past summer I picked up a very nice 2019 H535 for essentially a crack price from one of "H's" authorized dealers. It was listed as used (not shopworn), but it certainly didn't appear to be used at all. Given the proximity of the serial number date, and the date in which I purchased it, I don't believe it ever was "used". And while it is indeed a great guitar, I honestly feel there is something missing. Perhaps being so close to the old guard "H" makes me think this way, but I swear that it just ain't the same. YMMV 

   And on a side note, the retailer who is very prolific is no longer advertising that they are a Heritage dealer. Hmmmm....

[212Mavguy]

Well, there ya go.  Can understand the pulling of the post from the corporate viewpoints of both entities involved.  Short term butt hurt, for them fo sho.  HOWEVER...the folks that actually pulled their triggers got some screaming deals, and in the long run both corporate entities now have increased their "Goodwill" substantially.  The benefiting Heritage guitar new owners are gonna love their new instruments, they likely are going to be fans of Heritage guitars for the long run if they are not already.  The short run has both corporate entities thinking that they "took it in the shorts," though.  

If you buy and play a Heritage guitar, you have something special in your hands.  Hopefully most if not all the trigger pullers are gonna really enjoy what they got and become passionate fans of the brand and product  if not already...like the rest of the crew here.  Hopefully we will see a few new members.  

 

[yoslate]

21 hours ago, Gitfiddler said:

 

 

14 hours ago, JeffB said:

 

This is a public "thank you" on my part to two of my favorite posters.  Just as Bird observed that, for him, Heritage has misplaced its mojo, I've felt for some time the HOC has lost a bit of its...funk of yore, our ability to laugh at ourselves.  Sorry!  I dig reading about radiuses (or radii, if you prefer) and capacitance and finishes as much as the next guy, but where has all the juke and jive gone?  Tim, Jeff thanks for the posts here!  Tim, I watched the entire thing.  That you would post that...high concept (context is everything)performance art, and at the same time tick some delightful harmless voyeuristic personal boxes....  Jeff, yours.  Vintage Jeff quirk.  Still laughing at both...even as I tune back into "Live, From the Senate Floor...."  Made my night, boys.  

[Kuz]

16 hours ago, High Flying Bird said:

Hahaha...  In 2016 I standing inside of 225 Parsons and told a fellow member that the spirit of Heritage was dead.  He didn't believe me.  I suspect that the powers that, now, be at 225 Parsons didn't like a retailer selling their guitars so low and had their feelings hurt.  Well... bless their little fuckin' hearts. 

Back in the day we all knew that Heritage would soon come to an end.  It happened in 2016.  I hope the old timers made a bucketful of cash when they sold the joint.  I would have done the same thing if I were them.  One prolific member here said that Heritage had Mojo.  You can buy the building, you can buy the trademark and you can buy new blood but you can't buy Mojo.  Can I get an Amen?

I got ya Bird..... A M E N.    And others can quote better QC all they want.   If Pre-2016 Heritages were good enough for Kenny Burrell, Henry Johnson, Mimi Fox, Roy Clark, Alex Skolnick, Gary Moore, Doyle Bramhall II, Alvin Lee, and Sammy The Boy Wonder (I jest) .... then they are F*cking good enough for me.   The QC thing has been WAY over blown and I would love for the "The Best Heritages ever made were made in the last 3 years" camp need to come play my Custom 555,  my Florentine Golden Eagle, and my 535 P-90.  I defy them to find one f*cking thing wrong with them.  I set up all my own guitars and if you don't know how to adjust your truss rod or lower/raise your bridge.... then maybe you need to pay double for a Post-Plaza Heritage.

[Spectrum13]

To paraphrase Jon Legend the Mojo was in the perfect imperfections.

[Steiner]

1 hour ago, 212Mavguy said:

Well, there ya go.  Can understand the pulling of the post from the corporate viewpoints of both entities involved.  Short term butt hurt, for them fo sho.  HOWEVER...the folks that actually pulled their triggers got some screaming deals, and in the long run both corporate entities now have increased their "Goodwill" substantially.  The benefiting Heritage guitar new owners are gonna love their new instruments, they likely are going to be fans of Heritage guitars for the long run if they are not already.  The short run has both corporate entities thinking that they "took it in the shorts," though.  

If you buy and play a Heritage guitar, you have something special in your hands.  Hopefully most if not all the trigger pullers are gonna really enjoy what they got and become passionate fans of the brand and product  if not already...like the rest of the crew here.  Hopefully we will see a few new members.  

 

I know of two people that went for it.  The first was delivered yesterday.  He posted that it was delivered and he was waiting for it to acclimate just before going radio silent for many hours.  When he posted again, it was ecstatic adulation for his NGD.  The second was due to be delivered today to a member here.  He has been silent all day.  I wonder what he's doing?

[High Flying Bird]

4 hours ago, Kuz said:

If Pre-2016 Heritages were good enough for Kenny Burrell, Henry Johnson, Mimi Fox, Roy Clark, Alex Skolnick, Gary Moore, Doyle Bramhall II, Alvin Lee, and Sammy The Boy Wonder (I jest) .... then they are F*cking good enough for me.   The QC thing has been WAY over blown and I would love for the "The Best Heritages ever made were made in the last 3 years" camp need to come play my Custom 555,  my Florentine Golden Eagle, and my 535 P-90.  I defy them to find one f*cking thing wrong with them.  I set up all my own guitars and if you don't know how to adjust your truss rod or lower/raise your bridge.... then maybe you need to pay double for a Post-Plaza Heritage.

There it is. 

I set up my own guitars too.  I also help take care of my buddies Heritages. 

[JRL]

16 hours ago, Kuz said:

I got ya Bird..... A M E N.    And others can quote better QC all they want.   If Pre-2016 Heritages were good enough for Kenny Burrell, Henry Johnson, Mimi Fox, Roy Clark, Alex Skolnick, Gary Moore, Doyle Bramhall II, Alvin Lee, and Sammy The Boy Wonder (I jest) .... then they are F*cking good enough for me.   The QC thing has been WAY over blown and I would love for the "The Best Heritages ever made were made in the last 3 years" camp need to come play my Custom 555,  my Florentine Golden Eagle, and my 535 P-90.  I defy them to find one f*cking thing wrong with them.  I set up all my own guitars and if you don't know how to adjust your truss rod or lower/raise your bridge.... then maybe you need to pay double for a Post-Plaza Heritage.

I set up all of my guitars also and I'm well aware of how to adjust a truss rod and raise and lower a bridge and move saddles to intonate.  I do not replace string nuts and bridge saddles that were very obviously slotted with uneven string spacing and depths and I believe nobody should have to do so.  That being said, when these problems were corrected for the guitars became great.  I currently have 3 and absolutely love them all.  I have a 14, 15, and 17, and all of them had issues with the nut slots and bridge saddle slots being cut unevenly and sloppy.  The 2015 gold top has orange-peel, cloudy clearcoat on the back, and many obvious imperfections on the front of the guitar.  I realize many great guitars came out of Heritage and I know many came out with the same issues I've had.  Thank goodness for the PLEK machine and better quality control.  Two of my friends won the guitars at the last two PSP events and the guitars are perfect in every way.  I'm new to Heritage as of 2017, as I was taken on a private tour with Archie Leach's friends.  After learning about Heritage as far as what it was from the beginning and what it's become I have a deep appreciation from start to present.  I love the guitars, this forum, and the people on it.  I wouldn't hesitate to buy a current Heritage or a pre-2016 but given the experiences I've had I would expect to have some nut/bridge work done to the pre-2016 and again, I know many great guitars with no issues were put out prior to 2016.  I love these guitars, old and new, and I hope more people continue to discover and appreciate them and their story just I have.

Josh, Ohio

[skydog52]

Back to the original OP. 
 

Back door deals are done every minute of every day. Companies do it for all kinds of reasons. 

Before we get on the new Heritage we can’t be so naive in thinking that the old Heritage didn’t do the same thing. The new Heritage just did it in a big and what turned out public way. 
 

I know of HOC members that brokered deals without going through “Dealers” including me. 

I fell in love with Heritage Guitar 25 years ago and will be a supporter until they close the doors. I’m from Michigan and I am proud of the Kalamazoo story. 
 

My 2 cents 

[Gitfiddler]

Heritage Guitars, as run by the old guard, sold most of their standard and custom models at what would now be considered "blowout prices".  They used to be priced so far below market that we got spoiled.  That's partly the reason there are so many older custom Heritage instruments floating around...sold for premium prices...or being hoarded in closets.

 

[Gitterman]

1 hour ago, skydog52 said:

Back to the original OP. 
 

Back door deals are done every minute of every day. Companies do it for all kinds of reasons. 

Before we get on the new Heritage we can’t be so naive in thinking that the old Heritage didn’t do the same thing. The new Heritage just did it in a big and what turned out public way. 
 

I know of HOC members that brokered deals without going through “Dealers” including me. 

I fell in love with Heritage Guitar 25 years ago and will be a supporter until they close the doors. I’m from Michigan and I am proud of the Kalamazoo story. 
 

My 2 cents 

Amen

[Steiner]

Firing my friends for a couple bucks/hr was and always will be a cardinal sin IMHO.

When the management lied to my face and covered it by casting me into the layers of bureaucracy, I gave up on them.

The golden era was approachable and open.  That stimulated me to wanting "my" design.  Costs be dammed.  I won't trust the new guard and have voted appropriately with the dollars I don't send them.

[111518]

2 hours ago, Steiner said:

Firing my friends for a couple bucks/hr was and always will be a cardinal sin IMHO ...and have voted appropriately with the dollars I don't send them.

Yup.  I still check out HOC on occasion, cause there are lots of participants here whose opinions I respect, but, since the event Steiner describes, I couldn't imagine buying a new Heritage guitar.    Forget the shape of the headstock; the label "Heritage" seems mockery.  Owning and playing out with a Heritage once said something, or at least I thought it did, about honoring a community of craftspeople, in a world where such community has become more and more rare --and screw the hype of big-corporation advertising and lifestyle.

A new one now says nothing to or for me worth paying to say: there are lots of guitars out there with impeccable fit and finish, made in pursuit of the corporate bottom line.

I understand and respect that others have different connections to K'zoo and the instruments, and, feeling as I do, there hasn't been much reason to post --maybe the change was inevitable, and, I have no desire to discourage purchases by others from a company that provides much needed jobs, even if the nature of those jobs has changed. 

But, when I read Steiner's post, I couldn't help but think ... he and I disagreed often, maybe even usually,  back in the days when this forum hosted some wide-ranging debate.  On this point, we completely agree.  Seems worth saying, and thanks to Steiner, and 'Bird, and Kuz, and Deytook, and others, for saying it well.   

[Steiner]

+1

I knew we'd see alike eventually...