Setting up my H-150

[Gianluca]

Hi All,

NGD releated thread here

After I cleaned the guitar I re-strung it usign D'Addario XL110 (10-46),
leaving all as it was after tuning it, it was buzzing up to 4th fret.
Previous strings were very old and thin.

So I thought  to raise the bridge, I started very progressively but I had to go until the buzzing was gone.
The bidge+tail height was looking too high so I thought to loosen the neck and re-do the setup, trying to keep bridge+tail lower.
In order:
 - loosen the neck of one full step and a tad more
 - loose the strings
 - lower the bridge+tail
 - retune and try.
It was buzzing almost same way but a bit less, I kept raising the bridge+tail height in order to get rid of buzzing and not keep the angle between string and stop tail too low so to keep the bridge body clear of them, but I couldn't make it so

Last night I tried again, without adjusting the neck, and the action is a bit lower and playbility is closer to what I like (I do not prefer low action a loosen strings) but bridge+stop tail height is not looking good in my opinion and strings angle to the tail is still not clear and touching the bridge body again.
Clearly the PU height has been re-adjusted everytime.

As can be seen on the pics the tension on the bridge is not only toward the back of the guitar as it should be but toward the neck too given the strings angle to the tail which is in turn having some torsion apparently. 

All help and hints appreciated, I'm a nwebie in guitar setup.
Sorry if some of the pics are not perfect especially when I had to use the flash, but they should be good enough for the topic and purpose.

 

[Spectrum13]

Lots of assumptions but...  

I assume you removed all the strings to clean the frets and finger board. After restringing one might need to play the guitar back into the previous setup before taking "action on the action" The neck had tension removed and then after restringing, returned to pitch. 

You need to measure relief and the string height at nut and adjust before setting the bridge. Looks like you have a nashville style bridge with the saddles set all the way back towards the tail. Is intonation set like that?

[Gianluca]

I touched the intonation too, the saddles are all with the flat side looking at the neck and the screws are looking the stop tail since I bought the guitar.
Should the top end strings be like that bottom end (D, A, E) with flat side toward the tail?

What I do not understand as of now is how to set the neck and how the bidge and stop tail can follow accordingly.
Should the neck be straight? I thought loosening it could let me lower the bidge.

As you all know on Yotube there a ton of videos on the topic and confusion is easy.
Some videos I watched just as a refence:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zbNqtsIhVHg 

 

[Gianluca]

3 minutes ago, Spectrum13 said:

Lots of assumptions but...  

I assume you removed all the strings to clean the frets and finger board. After restringing one might need to play the guitar back into the previous setup before taking "action on the action" The neck had tension removed and then after restringing, returned to pitch. 

You need to measure relief and the string height at nut and adjust before setting the bridge. Looks like you have a nashville style bridge with the saddles set all the way back towards the tail. Is intonation set like that?

 

Yes I removed the strings, the pickguard and the PUs for cleaning the entire guitar, it was really needed, in the linked thread there is the description of what I did to clean the FB using Dunlop 65 lemon oil and Dunlop 65 Cleaner-Polish for the rest.

After restringing it I could not play it, the buzzing was unacceptable, that's why I had to take action.
The bridge is Nashville yes ? saddle are not all the way down.

[KEITHSPANGLE]

HI Gianluca
I took a closer look at my H-150 (2018 model) and found the string height at the bridge looked to be the same as yours ~ 20mm, but at the 12th fret it's about 1/2 mm lower. but.. the saddles are at the pickup side of the bridge. the guitar seems to play well, so I'm guessing your bridge height is OK too even if it feels a bit tall. I suspect th nexck relief needs slight adjustment, but that's not something I've experience of on my guitar, take care.

[Gianluca]

at 1st fret, ruler touching the wood it measures 2mm to the center of the bass E string

intonation is not bad, the G string is not quite good though

[LK155]

A solution for the tailpiece being too high is to top-wrap the strings.  Meaning insert the new strings from the bridge side of the tailpiece and wrap them over the top of the tailpiece.  This will give you enough height to avoid having the strings touch the bridge before they sit on the saddles.  Brent's latest For Sale posting about his H150 shows a top-wrapped tailpiece.

And I've never seen one of my Heritage guitars (or any other make of solid-body for that matter) properly intonated with the saddles all in a row like yours.  Whatever gets the job done, though.

[kennyv4]

Could it be the previous owner filed the nut to fit a larger gauge string?  

[Gianluca]

@LK155 I know of the wrap around but I do not think I want to go that way with a stop tail, I prefer learn what I am doing wrong, I think I can lower it and get to a better setup ?

@kennyv4 as you can read here and linked post the previous gauge was thinnner ?

 

thanks guys, much appreciated

[Gianluca]

update:

I thought to loosen the neck of one step so to lower bridge and tail to reduce string tension and I achieved it,
the action is kept where it was,
reviewed PU height and balanced,
intonation is ok for D, A, E and high E, not really ok for G and B of a hair

maybe a bit too loose but surely there is room to bring it back to a little more tension later on, for now I'll let it settle and tomorrow play it more

The H-150 is a fantastic instrument ?

[Gitterman]

On 2/20/2020 at 4:52 PM, Gianluca said:

I touched the intonation too, the saddles are all with the flat side looking at the neck and the screws are looking the stop tail since I bought the guitar.
Should the top end strings be like that bottom end (D, A, E) with flat side toward the tail?

What I do not understand as of now is how to set the neck and how the bidge and stop tail can follow accordingly.
Should the neck be straight? I thought loosening it could let me lower the bidge.

As you all know on Yotube there a ton of videos on the topic and confusion is easy.
Some videos I watched just as a refence:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zbNqtsIhVHg 

 

I like to face the adjustment screws towards the neck, as it makes it a bit easier to intonate. 

[Gianluca]

My 1990 Les Paul "Classic 1960" has the ABR-1 and screws are facing the neck
My H-150 Gold Tophas the Nashville and screws are facing the stop tail

last H-150 I saw like that is:

from: 

I couldn't find it too difficult to access ?

 

[Gitterman]

just saying with the screws facing the neck, you can turn the screw and tuning key at the same time. But your right its not that hard.

[Gianluca]

ah...I didn't think of that ?

[TalismanRich]

Sometimes its difficult to adjust the screws when they are on the pickup side , if the pickup is too close to the bridge.  Its much easier coming from the tailpiece side in that case.

 

[Gitterman]

ah, good thought. never had that issue, but Im an ABR1, guy.

[Gianluca]

after my last setup the guitar is very good, and I'm already happy with the playability, what a tone ?
though I felt like the high strings are a bit too high

so I bought two tools to help keep my setup
a Spanner
and String Action Gauge - Metric, I think it's a StewMac with a ToneTech decal on it
I bought them from Ton Tech in UK, no need to make it come from overseas

it's going to be a nice weekend ?

and I even found the new name for my Gold Top

 

[Gianluca]

the action is now fine tuned, those tools gave the right help
interesting how I brought the setup very close
playbility has improved after properly fiìxing the action E-to-E strings

what a beautiful tone she's got
I'm a lucky man

[Gitterman]

+1