HRW Pickups

[rwinking]

So I hear of these wonderful HRW pickups on a lot of older Heritage guitars and was wondering something. Why doesn't Heritage or Ren re-issue them? I have never played a guitar with them as they seem to be rare and anytime someone has a set for sale they go in a matter of hours at a price that I am not sure I can afford. I also know what pickups actually cost to manufacture and it ain't very much.

What is the deal?

[PunkKitty]

They are Schaller pickups that Ren modified. That's all we know about them. I asked Ren, and he wouldn't say. I know Schaller pickups are difficult to get. 

[Steiner]

I went through a phase where HRWs were replaced with throbaks.  As new and better high gain amps were introduced here, it appeared the HRWs are better pickups (subjectively) so I'm regressing back.  Perhaps I'll throw the throwbacks in the Duncan equipped guitars.  The change is a 180 degrees from recent intent.  Also, the point of reference is a 90's Golden Eagle with HRWs hooked to a high gain monster.  The HRWs produced all the deffenition and clarity desired.  Everybody looks for different nuances from their guitars so nobody can guaranty they are exactly what you want.  The beauty is, if you buy a used set to try, you can very likely get your money back if you decide to sell them...

[rwinking]

That's interesting that they were modified Schallers. However, it would be nothing for someone to get a set and back engineer them and then sell them. Are you listening, Heritage? Each set could then come with a white switch with a black dot on it.

[Gitfiddler]

1 hour ago, Steiner said:

I went through a phase where HRWs were replaced with throbaks.  As new and better high gain amps were introduced here, it appeared the HRWs are better pickups (subjectively) so I'm regressing back.  Perhaps I'll throw the throwbacks in the Duncan equipped guitars.  The change is a 180 degrees from recent intent.  Also, the point of reference is a 90's Golden Eagle with HRWs hooked to a high gain monster.  The HRWs produced all the deffenition and clarity desired.  Everybody looks for different nuances from their guitars so nobody can guaranty they are exactly what you want.  The beauty is, if you buy a used set to try, you can very likely get your money back if you decide to sell them...

Heresy!! 

 

[rwinking]

A Golden Eagle with a high gain amp? That sounds odd....What kind of music were you playing, Steiner? It seems that the Eagle would really feed back?

[Steiner]

42 minutes ago, Gitfiddler said:

Heresy!! 

 

I know, right?  At least I came to my senses before they sold. 

 

33 minutes ago, rwinking said:

A Golden Eagle with a high gain amp? That sounds odd....What kind of music were you playing, Steiner? It seems that the Eagle would really feed back?

Oh!  They feedback horrifically!  In an entertainingly fun way.  It gets to the point that one must be more concerned about reducing string energy than inducing the same.  The comparison was conducted through an OX so in this case i was using cans to compare.  It's a more intimate setting and helped the HRWs shine.  If you're into recording, you need a pair. Of pickups, that is...

[Gitfiddler]

@Steiner:  Seriously, during aggressive feedback, wouldn't the Golden Eagle's thin top vibrate so much as to possibly crack the lacquer...or worse?  I know you are the 'wood whisperer', so you've likely considered this, but I had to ask.

[brentrocks]

I’ve never been a fan of HRWs.   I thought the bridge was too bright.   The neck sounds the best IMO. 

[Steiner]

3 minutes ago, Gitfiddler said:

@Steiner:  Seriously, during aggressive feedback, wouldn't the Golden Eagle's thin top vibrate so much as to possibly crack the lacquer...or worse?  I know you are the 'wood whisperer', so you've likely considered this, but I had to ask.

@Gitfiddler:  Anything is possible.  Given one hits the top's resonate frequency at sufficient magnitude, absolutely - akin to the Memorex glass.  Given the bracing on the top, I think my ears may bleed first.  Wood is tremendously resilient.  I've cut, hammered, drilled, steamed & bent, etc.  The darn stuff is remarkable.  But, wouldn't it be fun!???

[Gitfiddler]

1 hour ago, Steiner said:

@Gitfiddler:  Anything is possible.  Given one hits the top's resonate frequency at sufficient magnitude, absolutely - akin to the Memorex glass.  Given the bracing on the top, I think my ears may bleed first.  Wood is tremendously resilient.  I've cut, hammered, drilled, steamed & bent, etc.  The darn stuff is remarkable.  But, wouldn't it be fun!???

See, I knew you would offer excellent counsel.  Thank you, sir.

Now crank up that Dumbell Amp and make a joyful noise.

[rwinking]

Still no answer as to why nobody has re released these pickups.

[Steiner]

1 hour ago, rwinking said:

Still no answer as to why nobody has re released these pickups.

The only person with the formula is Ren Wall.  He's never let it out.

[MartyGrass]

I don't foresee the reissuing of HRWs.  These pickups emerged because of all the right ingredients coming together at the same time.  That time has passed.

Ren Wall is a clever guy.  I only know a small fraction of his innovations.  But I do know he thought a lot about improving all things guitar.  He is ingredient number one.

Heritage got its hardware from Schaller, presumably at a bulk discount.  It was and is well engineered, but it's not the usual for American built guitars, particularly the roller bridge and the heavy tailpiece.  The pickups are very good in my opinion, but many viewed them as less desirable than American made pickups.  Heritage would put in Seymour Duncans or anything else you wanted for an upcharge and often did.  That scenario is the second ingredient.

The third is that if Heritage had it's own pickup, that could be the secret sauce that would bring more business.

Ren did keep his HRW creating a moderately well guarded secret.  My understanding is that the Schallers were frozen in liquid nitrogen and reborn as HRWs.  If you think this makes no sense, this process has been used with other pickups.  

https://www.seymourduncan.com/single-product/zephyr-tele  

https://www.guitar-list.com/guitar-science/cryogenic-pickups

I asked Ren directly about this and he just smiled.  But I've heard this confirmed over the years by others at Heritage.  If you take the cover off the HRW you will see that it has not been fully disassembled and there are no new parts in it.  The cryo treatment is consistent with all of that.

If I were Ren and was looking for a new pickup sound, I'd try cryo treatment because it's easy and it does alter the sound.

For some time there was a $150 upcharge for HRWs over Schallers.  That's a reasonable profit and a nice selling point.  Soon after their introduction the HRW won a European award for best new pickup of the year, adding to the attraction.  People were sending their Heritages back to the factory to get the new pickups installed and the HRW may have improved new guitar sales.

I am speculating that Schaller may have had a problem with altering the pickup.  Also Heritage switched their hardware and pickups sources.  Whatever the reason, the HRW production ceased.

Over the years I've struggled with getting HRWs to produce the sounds I want, particularly the bridge pickup.  There were threads on HOC on how to dial them in with screw and height adjustments.  It was frustrating to me and I gave up on them.  About five years ago I got a Super Eagle with a HRW.  I plugged it in and it was easy to get a fantastic, sparkly yet warm jazz sound from it.  Now I have a Golden Eagle with one in it, which also sounds as good as it gets.  Lastly I have a H-555 with set on them.  The bridge is on the bright side, which can be managed by rolling to tone to 7-8.  The neck is excellent.  It just took me a while to learn the HRWs secrets.

Here is a sample of Henry Johnson using HRWs. 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z9SRnlkEhRE

By the way, the HRW toggle switch cap takes about a minute to make.  They start with either a black or white plastic caps, drill a small divit into the top of it, and glue a fretboard dot marker into that divit.  I watched that magic happen!  Again, that's Ren Wall being brilliant.

 

 

[tbonesullivan]

I seem to recall there were supply issues with Schaller for a while. There were some issues with the company itself,  resulting from the death of founder Helmut Schaller and his son Rene Schaller in 1999-1998. Helmut Schaller's widow Grete than ran it, but it really stagnated, and I think veered towards bankruptcy. In 2006 is when it got close to bottom, and was restructured as Schaller GmbH.

[rwinking]

1 hour ago, MartyGrass said:

By the way, the HRW toggle switch cap takes about a minute to make.  They start with either a black or white plastic caps, drill a small divit into the top of it, and glue a fretboard dot marker into that divit.  I watched that magic happen!  Again, that's Ren Wall being brilliant.

Wow! I just increased the value of my H-150 with that neat little trick!

[High Flying Bird]

I bought a used 535 from Steiner that had HRWs in it.  I ended up replacing them with Phat Cats.  The HRWs were very clean with just an amp and a small Dallas/Arbitor boost pedal.  They didn't have much flavor or color to me.  I sold them to Guy with the switch tip included.  The HRWs sounded to me like louder, cleaner Schallers.  I can see where folks like Guit would like them for Jazz.  I guess if you play with a bunch of stomp boxes they could sound good for Rock too.  I just don't hear a blues tone coming out of them like the cheaper pickups. 

[DetroitBlues]

12 hours ago, rwinking said:

Wow! I just increased the value of my H-150 with that neat little trick!

Don't forget the pickup rings and pickups must be four adjustment screws not two.

As far as HRW's and not being reissued, with all the manufactures making pickups it doesn't make a lot of sense. 

Now the new Custom Core Models do have custom made pickups, so in a way, they might be considered the new HRW's.....

[MartyGrass]

6 hours ago, DetroitBlues said:

Don't forget the pickup rings and pickups must be four adjustment screws not two.

HRWs and Schallers swing both ways.  They'll take one or two screws on each side.  Seymour/Gibbons or Schaller bezels are fine.

[myoldfriend]

HRW's?  Smoke 'em if you got 'em!

 

[Gitfiddler]

HRW x 3 = Tone, Tone, Tone!

[Steiner]

9 hours ago, Gitfiddler said:

HRW x 3 = Tone, Tone, Tone!

+1 for the tres-tone hombre!

[Gitfiddler]

1 hour ago, Steiner said:

+1 for the tres-tone hombre!

!Muchisimas Nachos, Amigo!

[High Flying Bird]

16 hours ago, Steiner said:

+1 for the tres-tone hombre!

That was the one we thought about stealing from the Guit as we drove to Kzoo isn't it?  You called it the, "Triple Lunger."  What elaborate plans we came up with...

[Steiner]

6 hours ago, High Flying Bird said:

That was the one we thought about stealing from the Guit as we drove to Kzoo isn't it?  You called it the, "Triple Lunger."  What elaborate plans we came up with...

The very same.  Unfortunately, our best laid plans were thwarted once we realized he could palm both our heads with one hand!