MartyGrass Posted August 21, 2021 Posted August 21, 2021 I got this H-555 from eBay that had a repaired headstock. It's a custom order with a rosewood board and block inlays. The headstock was touted as having a stable repair for four years. The guy packaged it very well with double boxing. Nonetheless the headstock arrived in two pieces. I examined the break. It looks like the wood was not glued except on the edges. I contacted the seller immediately and returned the guitar. I got my refund. I told the seller that if he had it repaired properly it looks like it would be a usable instrument. These pics were taken right after I opened the case. Horror!
Steiner Posted August 21, 2021 Posted August 21, 2021 The break looks like virgin wood. It's a shame to see botched repairs.
MartyGrass Posted August 22, 2021 Author Posted August 22, 2021 I'm curious whether he will get his shipping refunded from FedEx. He did box it well. As soon as FedEx dropped off the package to me I took time stamped pics of the outer and then inner boxes because there was some mild damage to them. This was before I opened either box. I did that every time now because I had a FedEx claim this year, which they rightly paid for. One of the requirements at FedEx is that there has to be documentation that the box shows some damage.
yoslate Posted August 22, 2021 Posted August 22, 2021 Looks a great candidate for a repair to have been done correctly and been fine. And good advice on the photos! Whenever I receive a shipped guitar, the first thing I do is take pics of the box and packing job, and if I can, of the delivery guy bringing up the walk, it to the house.
brentrocks Posted August 22, 2021 Posted August 22, 2021 Easy repair to make playable Difficult repair to make look like new.
PunkKitty Posted August 22, 2021 Posted August 22, 2021 11 minutes ago, brentrocks said: Easy repair to make playable Difficult repair to make look like new. That's what I was thinking. It's not a straight break. There is enough wood that it can be glued and clamped. Ideally, you should use plugs for a break like that and then repaint it.
TalismanRich Posted August 23, 2021 Posted August 23, 2021 Yeah, that looks like it should be repairable. Is that where the original break was supposed to be? If so, what type of glue did that guy use? Conventional wisdom is that a properly repaired neck joint will be as strong or stronger than before. On another point, is there a good way to package a guitar so that the headstock won't snap if the box is dropped? Understanding that it's a weak point, would it be beneficial to add something inside the case to prevent movement and perhaps absorb some of the shock?
MartyGrass Posted August 23, 2021 Author Posted August 23, 2021 2 hours ago, TalismanRich said: Yeah, that looks like it should be repairable. Is that where the original break was supposed to be? If so, what type of glue did that guy use? Conventional wisdom is that a properly repaired neck joint will be as strong or stronger than before. On another point, is there a good way to package a guitar so that the headstock won't snap if the box is dropped? Understanding that it's a weak point, would it be beneficial to add something inside the case to prevent movement and perhaps absorb some of the shock? I don't think the original break was repaired well at all.
Millennium Maestro Posted August 23, 2021 Posted August 23, 2021 I had a Brand new one blocks/Rosewood disappear/stolen at the factory during the cleanup when Plaza took over... Those Serials don't match but I keep my eyes open for her! The factory did make it right with me... I loved those good ol' boys of the Golden Era!
DetroitBlues Posted August 24, 2021 Posted August 24, 2021 Seeing a picture like that makes my heart sink. I'd lose it if I opened a case and found a headstock broken like that. Honestly, I'd probably contact the seller and ask for them to pay for a proper repair. Guitar is a beauty and can be cleanly repaired, save the fact it needs a new veneer. Being close to K-zoo, might even get some help from the factory on its restoration.
MartyGrass Posted August 24, 2021 Author Posted August 24, 2021 It becomes complicated when asking for a partial refund. If the seller said he'd give $500 off or even $400 off if I'd get the repair done, then maybe. What he wanted to do was have FedEx pay for the damage. That would involve me getting the work done, he submitting the receipt and full documentation of the damage to FedEx then waiting a few months for payment. If I were FedEx I would not pay for the repair since the guitar headstock didn't look stable. I just wanted to extricate from the situation.
MartyGrass Posted August 24, 2021 Author Posted August 24, 2021 On 8/22/2021 at 8:18 PM, TalismanRich said: Yeah, that looks like it should be repairable. Is that where the original break was supposed to be? If so, what type of glue did that guy use? Conventional wisdom is that a properly repaired neck joint will be as strong or stronger than before. On another point, is there a good way to package a guitar so that the headstock won't snap if the box is dropped? Understanding that it's a weak point, would it be beneficial to add something inside the case to prevent movement and perhaps absorb some of the shock? The best way to pack a headstock is to make it unable to flex when dropped. To go to the extreme, take off the tuners. Pack under the headstock very tightly underneath and on the sides. Then pack it tightly on top of it. Fracture is caused by a rapid flexion, typically from dropping. If the upper neck and headstock are rigidly packed, there will be no fracture.
Steiner Posted August 24, 2021 Posted August 24, 2021 2 hours ago, MartyGrass said: The best way to pack a headstock is to make it unable to flex when dropped. To go to the extreme, take off the tuners. Pack under the headstock very tightly underneath and on the sides. Then pack it tightly on top of it. Fracture is caused by a rapid flexion, typically from dropping. If the upper neck and headstock are rigidly packed, there will be no fracture. By flex, do you mean torque? I love your idea of removing the tuners. Removing them significantly reduces the Ground Potential Energy when dropped. One still needs a little give at the headstock, not vice it rigidly to the case; especially when the body shifts, the headstock should be able to move and keep the steady-state of the guitar's geometry consistent. We should derive an easy way to fill the headstock case pocket with the spray foam in a bag. Given the proper durometer, this could be circumvented.
ElChoad Posted August 24, 2021 Posted August 24, 2021 4 years + 1 week was obviously too much. That sucks.
MartyGrass Posted August 25, 2021 Author Posted August 25, 2021 22 hours ago, Steiner said: By flex, do you mean torque? I love your idea of removing the tuners. Removing them significantly reduces the Ground Potential Energy when dropped. One still needs a little give at the headstock, not vice it rigidly to the case; especially when the body shifts, the headstock should be able to move and keep the steady-state of the guitar's geometry consistent. We should derive an easy way to fill the headstock case pocket with the spray foam in a bag. Given the proper durometer, this could be circumvented. I mean flexion. The vulnerability seems higher front to back or vice versa deceleration. Rotary motion would not impart that much energy. I have to believe that it's linear deceleration that creates the damage, for the the most part.
ElNumero Posted August 25, 2021 Posted August 25, 2021 On 8/22/2021 at 12:16 PM, brentrocks said: Easy repair to make playable Difficult repair to make look like new. But you would have been uo to the task Brent! How many you repaired now? At least a dozen.
ElNumero Posted August 25, 2021 Posted August 25, 2021 22 hours ago, Steiner said: By flex, do you mean torque? I love your idea of removing the tuners. Removing them significantly reduces the Ground Potential Energy when dropped. One still needs a little give at the headstock, not vice it rigidly to the case; especially when the body shifts, the headstock should be able to move and keep the steady-state of the guitar's geometry consistent. We should derive an easy way to fill the headstock case pocket with the spray foam in a bag. Given the proper durometer, this could be circumvented. You talk like a physicist instead of a retired accountant!
TalismanRich Posted August 25, 2021 Posted August 25, 2021 Will, I've got a couple of ideas to test. Can I perhaps use a few of your guitars to see if they work?
Steiner Posted August 25, 2021 Posted August 25, 2021 1 hour ago, ElNumero said: You talk like a physicist instead of a retired accountant! Funny how that happens...
GuitarsGuitarsGuitars Posted August 26, 2021 Posted August 26, 2021 I'm Sorry - but there is NO POSSIBLE WAY that happened during Shipping. And if it did - it was 90% plus broken before the shipping. Not a chance. Impossible to impart that amount of force through the box AND the Case. No way.
MartyGrass Posted August 26, 2021 Author Posted August 26, 2021 4 minutes ago, GuitarsGuitarsGuitars said: I'm Sorry - but there is NO POSSIBLE WAY that happened during Shipping. And if it did - it was 90% plus broken before the shipping. Not a chance. Impossible to impart that amount of force through the box AND the Case. No way. I don't the shipper did this. Could it be done by dropping the box 6 feet? Yes.
Steiner Posted August 26, 2021 Posted August 26, 2021 I dropped a boxed amplifier off at Fed Ex recently. The counter girl looked at me deadpan and asked if it could take a 10' fall No.
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