Oxidation / Outgassing

[scottb630]

  ???

I haven't played my Heritage 535 in a few months. I pulled it out of the case and it looks like it's been near salt water (I don't live near the ocean).  The frets were tarnished (green), the bridge and tuners looked oxidized. Has anyone seen this before.   I have heard that the pickguard material can do this.  My black pickguard looks like smoky dark gray now (still black .. but cloudy black).   I was able to clean everything up, Neverdull, Microfiber and 'powercord' cleaner. Except the pickguard.

Whew ... if I didn't catch it it would have been worse! 

  This H-535 looks like a Chuck Berry or Alvin Lee (60's minus the hippie stickers) Red, hollow body ... GREAT Guitar!!

  Ideas?  Help!    I did send an Email to Kalamazoo asking if they had any input on the matter.

 

[Kuz]

  ???

I haven't played my Heritage 535 in a few months. I pulled it out of the case and it looks like it's been near salt water (I don't live near the ocean).  The frets were tarnished (green), the bridge and tuners looked oxidized. Has anyone seen this before.   I have heard that the pickguard material can do this.  My black pickguard looks like smoky dark gray now (still black .. but cloudy black).   I was able to clean everything up, Neverdull, Microfiber and 'powercord' cleaner. Except the pickguard.

Whew ... if I didn't catch it it would have been worse! 

  This H-535 looks like a Chuck Berry or Alvin Lee (60's minus the hippie stickers) Red, hollow body ... GREAT Guitar!!

  Ideas?  Help!    I did send an Email to Kalamazoo asking if they had any input on the matter.

 

 

Must too much humidity getting in that from some where. Where do you keep your case with the guitar in it (what room? Basement?) ?

[scottb630]

No Basement, it a split level, down stairs 45% humidity or dryer ...  it's a 'Music room', my band practices in it.

I have roughly 8 guitars, side by side in the same area, none of them have this same issue. This was in the middle of the 8.  It may have been hazy, hot, humid summer day last time I played it, but I can't believe that would trap in the case?! 

 

  I've been playing for 35 years ... this is the first time I've ever seen this happen to one of my guitars before.

I am an experienced guitar repairman (everything from  electronics to fret leveling & dressing to basic setups).

I have MANY specialized tools for guitar work (stewmac - Luthiers Merchantile etc.) so I'm not totally a newbee.

[Kuz]

I had a similar occurance happen to me.

 

I had a high end acoustic that I hadn't played since the summer (in it's case the whole time). I opened the case open to play her in mid-Dec and the action was so high I thought I would need a neck reset. My luthier said that the guitar was way too wet (even though our winter relative humidity is like 17%. He said the case must have been near air tight and they just adjusted the truss rod (no damage done, just a wet guitar in the dead of winter due to an air tight case)

 

I would guess this was the similar reason for your issues.

[scottb630]

OK  thanks

I don't think I want Silica in the case .. it'd dry out the guitar neck.

hmmm well ... maybe silica in the case when the guitar ISN'T in it.

[111518]

ScottB630:

I haven't heard of outgassing on Heritage guitar pickguards, but it is a chronic problem with older Gibson and other guitars.  The symptoms are exactly as you describe: the gas emitted as the plastic breaks down causes rapid corrosion of the the metal hardware on the guitar, and the plastic pickguard itself begins to change in appearance and feel ...and will eventually disintegrate.  Does your pickguard feel "oily," or "slimey," esp. underneath, at times when the guitar shouldn't logically display signs of sweat or condesation?  Does the finish on the top underneath the pickguard look discolored or feel soft or slimey?  If so, I'd take the pickguard off and get it out of the case ASAP.  In fact, I'd say that the change you describe in the appearance of the plastic is evidence enough to get the thing out of the case now! 

 

Like you, I'd been around guitars a lot before I encountered this problem, and couldn't quite believe what was going on when I did.  I learned the hard way: by opening up a case and finding a guitar with ruined hardware and a finish so damaged that the wood of the top was beginning to de-laminate.  Obviously, it is not something the manufacturers warn about, but it is very real.  Once you are aware of it, you begin to realize how many older guitars are sold without pickguards... because the pickguards disintegrate.  My 70 Gibson es is on its third. 

[Sparky]

Holy crap... man am I glad I don't use pickguards. If I saw something like this on my Heritage (my most expensive piece of musical furniture) I'd freak out.

Perhaps a wooden pickguard, or no pickguard at all would be a better idea? Would silica dessicant even help in a case (no pun intended) like this?

[SouthpawGuy]

Holy crap... man am I glad I don't use pickguards. If I saw something like this on my Heritage (my most expensive piece of musical furniture) I'd freak out.

Perhaps a wooden pickguard, or no pickguard at all would be a better idea? Would silica dessicant even help in a case (no pun intended) like this?

 

A lot of the Heritage pickguards are made from wood, coincidence or design ?

 

I recently took the pickguard off my own 535, purely because I wanted to see all of the top.

[GuitArtMan]

A lot of the Heritage pickguards are made from wood, coincidence or design ?

 

I recently took the pickguard off my own 535, purely because I wanted to see all of the top.

I've never seen a 535 with a plastic guard, they are always wood I thought.

[Kuz]

All 535/555 pickguards are made of wood (from the factory) an aftermarket could be made of anything? ???

[scottb630]

Here it is ... I'll try to get a better picture later today.

Right now I have to go work in the guitar shop ;-)

Heritage.jpg

Heritage.jpg_thumb

[SouthpawGuy]

 

Looks like a stock pickguard to me. Those fitted by some Heritage dealers, with the G'brand shape, are probably plastic.

This one looks original though so it is most likely made from wood.

[brentrocks]

Here it is ... I'll try to get a better picture later today.

Right now I have to go work in the guitar shop ;-)

 

that is hot man!!!

 

thanks for posting!!!

[Jim W]

Usually (IMHO) outgassing of pickguards is limited to the celluloid ones found on older guitars. I'm not sure if the newer ones do it as well, bu I think the plastic used now is pretty inert. Alicia's '69 Super 400 has the older type of celluloid guard (redish yellow swirly looking with binding applied to it).

[Kuz]

Usually (IMHO) outgassing of pickguards is limited to the celluloid ones found on older guitars. I'm not sure if the newer ones do it as well, bu I think the plastic used now is pretty inert. Alicia's '69 Super 400 has the older type of celluloid guard (redish yellow swirly looking with binding applied to it).

 

+1 I have never had that happen with an of my NEW pickguards, plastic, wood, or whatever material.

[111518]

Obviously, if ScottB's pickguard is wood, then the problem is not the guard itself outgassing (unless termites fart).  Just trying to offer some help based on experience ...I wish someone had told me to be aware of the early signs of the problem before my pickguard burned a hole in the top of my 355.

 

I think the wooden pickguards ARE both beautiful in their own right, and also a nice way to avoid the problem of pickguard disintegration.  The gibson-shaped guards that Wolfe specifies on his 535 specials are wood, by the way.  It is also true, in my experience, that the type of faux-tortoiseshell celluloid guard that Jim W. describes are among the most likely to outgass, but they are not the only plastic that degrades, and rates of deterioration, though related to age, can vary even from one batch of plastic to the next.  (Vintage Guitar had a very informative article on this problem, but I checked and it doesn't appear to be archived on their website.)

 

I don't get to actually see many Heritage guitars, and I assumed, based on pictures of guards like the one on Scott's guitar --uniformly black and seem to have the white edge of a two ply black/white guard with a bevel-- that Heritage had gone to plastic guards on some guitars.  I would be pleased to learn that I was wrong; again, I like the wooden guards as a mark of Heritage design.  My apologies if I've offered bad advice based on an incorrect assumption. 

 

If the guard is in fact wood, I'm still perplexed as to why the color of the pickguard would have changed, and not the finish on other wooden components of the guitar?  (Finishes can outgass as well as plastic.)

 

Pretty guitar, and I'm glad, whatever the problem, that it cleaned up so nicely.  (My relatives once said the same about me, but I don't think even powercord cleaner would do the trick these days.)

[scottb630]

It was actually the Never-dull by Eagle One that cleaned up the oxidation.

Never-Dull works great on any metal (drum hardware too). I originally bought it to keep the bluing  off the exhaust of my Harley. Another Hot-Rodded piece of equipment (S&S 96+ special porting for you motor heads). FXDXT (2003) looks like a rambler rides and accelerates like a Maserati. 

[scottb630]

  Thanks folks ... I'll get it figured out eventually. Once I do get an answer, I'll post just in case some else hits a similar problem.

  Well, right now I'm working on putting a Bone Nut on the 535,  the B is fretting out a little.

[wingnut1]

I keep all my guitars out of their case and in a multi-guitar stand.  This keeps them from having this kind of problem.

[scottb630]

  No Kids or Pets at home I bet ?  :wink:

[Kuz]

  No Kids or Pets at home I bet ?   :wink:

 

I hear ya on that!!! To honest in over 23 years of playing/collecting from vintage to new pieces, I have never seen ANYTHING like what has been described and ALL my guitars live in their case. I guess I have just been lucky.

 

Then again, I do all play them in a pretty consistent rotation. To not have one out of the case for 3-4 weeks is very unusual.

[Gitfiddler]

If the pickguard is not the source of the out-gassing, then maybe it is the case.

 

Seriously.  The synthetic materials and glue inside the guitar case may be reacting to the guitar's metal and plastic.  Check and see if the same thing happens if stored in another '335' type case, or left outside of the case for a few months.  Also, check if the temperature goes through extremes in your music room.  Extreme heat can cause a thermal reaction to glues and synthetic materials.

 

You could also experiment and put one of your other guitars inside the case for a few weeks and see if there is any chemical reaction to its parts.

 

I've had major out-gassing problems with my old Ibanez 2630 semi-hollow.  It ruined the electronics, frets, wood, the inside of the guitar case as well as the pickguard!!

[scottb630]

Good ideas ... although I think if it were the case it would seem that others would see this same issue. Which is why I am asking here. This case does have the 'The Heritage' in gold lettering on the top, so I think it's safe to assume it's the one that came with it from the factory.   

  This room (that the guitars are kept in) really doesn't have temp extremes.  Humidity maybe?!  the Northeast can get humid in the summer and pretty dry in the winter. It's something Fender necks hate and have to be adjusted with the season changes.  When a Maple neck Fender is new to this area we often see fret overhang and the frets have to be filed back along the fingerboard edge or they'll cut your hands like a razor (and why I'm not a huge fan of maple necks even though I have a couple).

[Cryoman]

I'm with GitFiddler on this one.  I suspect the case. All that fuzzy fur lining is glued down with spray adhesive and simply a change in either lining or glue (ie a "bad batch") could mean your case is giving off more volatiles than other cases or one constructed correctly.  You might consider putting that case open in the warm sun (assuming you'll have one where you live...) for a couple afternoons.  Even slightly elevated temperatures will help drive off the volatiles.

 

Cheers,  Cryoman

[scottb630]

  OK,

 

  I have left the case open for a few days.

  Maybe I keep the guitar out of it and close it up with Silica for a few days to pull any moisture out of it.

When it gets sunny and warm. I'll put it in the hot sun for a bit (or maybe but it in my dry furnace room for a week or two).

 

  Thanks for the suggestions,

        Scott B