Fender Deluxe Tone Master

[ElNumero]

Wow, did Fender ever nail this 100%! The guitarist in one of the bands I play in snatched one in brand new condition off Craigslist for $600.  I’m not kidding this thing sounds every bit as good as a reissue Deluxe tube amp.  And it’s prett too with a blonde to,ex and ox blood grill. I’d buy one in a heartbeat!

[kbp810]

Remaining skeptical until I can hear one in person myself; but intrigued enough that I would indeed like to hear one in person. Lightly used at $600 would be a good price point if it delivers the tone; the 1k new price tag is a little tougher to swallow though. 

[DetroitBlues]

It would be a curious to compare to a real one.  The technology is similar to Quilter, but the Quilter tones while pleasant are not fully represented of the Fender amps they try to emulate.

I'm sure the weight of the amp makes a huge difference too when deciding to purchase...

[rockabilly69]

On 6/18/2022 at 1:13 PM, kbp810 said:

Remaining skeptical until I can hear one in person myself; but intrigued enough that I would indeed like to hear one in person. Lightly used at $600 would be a good price point if it delivers the tone; the 1k new price tag is a little tougher to swallow though. 

Stay skeptical, I have heard one in person. If you've ever been around a real Deluxe Reverb (especially blackface), which I'm pretty sure you have, you know that when they get around 7 on the dial, that's when the magic happens, to me that's where they get really fun. But that's where the Tonemaster shows it's true colors. For low volume stuff, clean with reverb, I think it would be a fine rig, and Ill just leave it at that. I'm not against technology as many times I record with Fender collection Amplitube plug-ins, but before my signal hits those plugs it's going through a Drawmer tube preamp. It's great. but not wound up Deluxe Reverb great.

[t0aj15]

IMO the very best Deluxe isn't made by Fender. To get truly improved Deluxe tone & performance you'll need a Rivera Stage IV. Yes it's more expensive then a Fender, but the improvements Paul Rivera made raise these amps to a whole new level over even the best Deluxe amps Fender ever made. The price has jumped $500 since I got mine in DECEMBER probably because they can't keep them in stock for more then a few days. The fact that they are all handmade here in the US makes the price easy to understand.

https://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/StageIV--rivera-stage-4-1-by-12-inch-tube-combo-amp

[ElNumero]

36 minutes ago, t0aj15 said:

IMO the very best Deluxe isn't made by Fender. To get truly improved Deluxe tone & performance you'll need a Rivera Stage IV. Yes it's more expensive then a Fender, but the improvements Paul Rivera made raise these amps to a whole new level over even the best Deluxe amps Fender ever made. The price has jumped $500 since I got mine in DECEMBER probably because they can't keep them in stock for more then a few days. The fact that they are all handmade here in the US makes the price easy to understand.

https://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/StageIV--rivera-stage-4-1-by-12-inch-tube-combo-amp

Wow that’s steep but probably worth it.  KBP810 made a couple fantastic Deluxe clones about 15 years ago and (ask Detroit Blues) they were as good as anything out there.  

[ElNumero]

Well, I’m throwing Sweetwater to the curb.  They wouldn’t budge and only 6 months financing.  My MF gear advisor just gave me $150 off a Tone Master Deluxe with 48 month promo financing. It’s on the way.  

[ElNumero]

23 hours ago, rockabilly69 said:

Stay skeptical, I have heard one in person. If you've ever been around a real Deluxe Reverb (especially blackface), which I'm pretty sure you have, you know that when they get around 7 on the dial, that's when the magic happens, to me that's where they get really fun. But that's where the Tonemaster shows it's true colors. For low volume stuff, clean with reverb, I think it would be a fine rig, and Ill just leave it at that. I'm not against technology as many times I record with Fender collection Amplitube plug-ins, but before my signal hits those plugs it's going through a Drawmer tube preamp. It's great. but not wound up Deluxe Reverb great.

My lead guitar player had his out on last Saturdays outdoor gig and it was LOUD and clean.  Just like you want a Fender to sound.  If you want dirt that’s what pedals are for.  Trust me this amp is an accurate beast!

[ElNumero]

On 6/30/2022 at 3:27 PM, DetroitBlues said:

It would be a curious to compare to a real one.  The technology is similar to Quilter, but the Quilter tones while pleasant are not fully represented of the Fender amps they try to emulate.

I'm sure the weight of the amp makes a huge difference too when deciding to purchase...

Since I will have it shortly I’ll give a comparison to the tube 65 Deluxe (reissue)

[skydog52]

1 minute ago, ElNumero said:

Well, I’m throwing Sweetwater to the curb.  They wouldn’t budge and only 6 months financing.  My MF gear advisor just gave me $150 off a Tone Master Deluxe with 48 month promo financing. It’s on the way.  

 

Just now, ElNumero said:

My lead guitar player had his out on last Saturdays outdoor gig and it was LOUD and clean.  Just like you want a Fender to sound.  If you want dirt that’s what pedals are for.  Trust me this amp is an accurate beast!

I look forward to your tone report. I've been checking them out lately.

[rockabilly69]

12 hours ago, ElNumero said:

My lead guitar player had his out on last Saturdays outdoor gig and it was LOUD and clean.  Just like you want a Fender to sound.  If you want dirt that’s what pedals are for.  Trust me this amp is an accurate beast!

I'm sorry Will, I do not agree, and I'll trust my ears. Trying to tell me that a Tonemaster could hang would be like me trying to tell you a Pearl import drum set could hang with a top of the line DW kit.

My opinion is, "Loud And clean" is not what Deluxe Reverbs are famous for, they have 6V6 tubes that break up sooner than the 6L6 tubes that the bigger Fender amps, that's more Super and Twin Reverb territory, I own a real '64 Deluxe Reverb and one of my best friends has a '65 and a '66 and all of them are tuned to absolute perfection, and I had mine right next to a Tonemaster, no contest, my '64 smoked it on all counts, clean and dirty. Sorry no cigar for the Tonemaster.

Fender hasn't made decent Deluxe Reverb since the early 70's, and the great ones were made pre '67. And don't get me started with their PCB board reissues.

In my opinion no one has ever made a better Deluxe Reverb than Leo Fenders original blackfaces!

Here's my '64 (which is actually a transitional model as it's from the VERY FIRST RUN of Deluxe Reverbs with a paper wound output transformer) 

[img]https://i.imgur.com/63aOdvw.jpg[/img]

(replacement 12A150 Weber speaker for gigging)

[img]https://i.imgur.com/8wxdC2e.jpg[/img]

(notice the 1 in Production run)

[img]https://i.imgur.com/iNAsxym.jpg[/img]

 

 

[JeffB]

I dont think they are quite there.

The reason Ive never kept a DR is because they arent loud and clean. The reason I had them was because that point at around 6-7.5 (depending on guitar/pickup) on the volume is a really great overdriven sound. Capture that in a stompbox and I would be happy - No one has.

When I sat with the TMDR I was in familiar surroundings where I have played many amps at reasonably high volumes and I had a DRRI to compare it to. It was the room that I first discovered my love for cranked DR overdriven sounds and realised that the sound I was looking for wasnt an overdriven marshall but an overdriven DR or similar.
The TMDR was a good sounding amp in its own right and I liked a lot about it. I  liked that it stayed clean until quite loud. But it didnt do the thing that I like about DR's at any volume, it attempted it, but it was not a great attempt. The clean sound was a good clean sound but I couldnt get it to directly line up with the DR I was using next to it. There was something missing -  Im not great at explaining these things.

Had I tried it by itself and without any expectation from previous experience I would have been more than happy with it. I havnt ruled out picking one up, most of my playing time is spent straight into a completely clean amp - real clean, or using an acoustic guitar. It is kind of the perfect light weight amp for me. Ive kind of just bookmarked the experience as something to revisit if I get back into playing more.

 
 

 

[ElNumero]

So I tried to get the same output and tone in comparing my 65 Deluxe Reissue (sorry Rockabilly I don’t own a real one) to the Tone Master Deluxe. I was using a Fender Strat with Fralin vintage hot pups.  Here are my observations:

Since the Tone Master has a Celestion Neo speaker and the Reissue has a Jensen C12, right off the bat I’m hearing different tones. 
 

The Reissue is louder-for example at 3 I had to have the TM at 4 to achieve comparible volume level.

The Reissue is bassier or to put it another way, the TM sounds thinner so to get them to sound the same I had to roll back the bass on RI to 4 while the TM remained flat at 5.  
 

Once I made these adjustments they started sounding similar and I started cranking both.  At 8, the RI is getting saturated and so seems the TM.  Not identical but close.  My room is too small to dime them.  While NO digital amp is going to replicate a tube amp, the TM can be useful in approximating the sound of the RI.  Therefore I am in agreement with Rockabilly for the most part.  
 

 

[rockabilly69]

21 hours ago, ElNumero said:

So I tried to get the same output and tone in comparing my 65 Deluxe Reissue (sorry Rockabilly I don’t own a real one) to the Tone Master Deluxe. I was using a Fender Strat with Fralin vintage hot pups.  Here are my observations:

Since the Tone Master has a Celestion Neo speaker and the Reissue has a Jensen C12, right off the bat I’m hearing different tones. 
 

The Reissue is louder-for example at 3 I had to have the TM at 4 to achieve comparible volume level.

The Reissue is bassier or to put it another way, the TM sounds thinner so to get them to sound the same I had to roll back the bass on RI to 4 while the TM remained flat at 5.  
 

Once I made these adjustments they started sounding similar and I started cranking both.  At 8, the RI is getting saturated and so seems the TM.  Not identical but close.  My room is too small to dime them.  While NO digital amp is going to replicate a tube amp, the TM can be useful in approximating the sound of the RI.  Therefore I am in agreement with Rockabilly for the most part.  
 

 

I think you hit the description of the tone differences square on the head, and if you really got to turn it up it would be more obvious. But as I said earlier, for low volume stuff I think it would be fine. 

[DetroitBlues]

Just returned from a backstage tour of the Grand Ole Opry.

I saw four Fender Deluxe Reverbs being used.

And guess what, all were Tone Lab’s.  Not a single tube amp to be found.

That must say something about the amps…

[PunkKitty]

7 minutes ago, DetroitBlues said:

Just returned from a backstage tour of the Grand Ole Opry.

I saw four Fender Deluxe Reverbs being used.

And guess what, all were Tone Lab’s.  Not a single tube amp to be found.

That must say something about the amps…

It says that Fender supplied the amps to the Grand Ole Opry in order to boost sales.

[DetroitBlues]

[Gitfiddler]

Considering the additional features loaded into the DR Tone Master rig, and the relatively close approximation to a tube DR, it makes sense why a venue like the Grand Ole Opry would use them as part of their back line.  They have the option of miking the amp's speaker old school, or go direct via their balanced XLR Output Control, Selectable Cab IRs and Ground Lift.  Plus TM DR amps are priced under a grand and should be maintenance free.  If I owned a big nightclub or stage venue the TM DR would definitely be included.

[DetroitBlues]

16 minutes ago, PunkKitty said:

It says that Fender supplied the amps to the Grand Ole Opry in order to boost sales.

I think they’d have a say in what amps they want from Fender.  Tube vs Solid state.

Their warm up area, they use Fender Champ solid state amps too…

[DetroitBlues]

Just now, Gitfiddler said:

Considering the additional features loaded into the DR Tone Master rig, and the relatively close approximation to a tube DR, it makes sense why a venue like the Grand Ole Opry would use them as part of their back line.  They have the option of miking the amp's speaker old school, or go direct via their balanced XLR Output Control, Selectable Cab IRs and Ground Lift.  Plus TM DR amps are priced under a grand and should be maintenance free.  If I owned a big nightclub or stage venue the TM DR would definitely be included.

One would think the tone is close enough else the band would throw a fit otherwise…

[TalismanRich]

4 hours ago, DetroitBlues said:

One would think the tone is close enough else the band would throw a fit otherwise…

I think this is probably the biggest point.   I'll bet that nobody in the audience is saying  "listen to that crappy solid state amp!"    Yeah, if you put the two next to each other, you can say they sound different (not necessarily better... that's a subjective call).    Now they don't have to worry about a tube going out just as the big star is walking out on stage with the TV cameras running. 

[DetroitBlues]

12 hours ago, TalismanRich said:

I think this is probably the biggest point.   I'll bet that nobody in the audience is saying  "listen to that crappy solid state amp!"    Yeah, if you put the two next to each other, you can say they sound different (not necessarily better... that's a subjective call).    Now they don't have to worry about a tube going out just as the big star is walking out on stage with the TV cameras running. 

That may be why as guitarists why we are so picky.  We hear more nuances than non-players.  
 

In the automotive world, there are specific quality standards that have to be met from a visibility standpoint, when I point them out to those not in Quality, they don’t see what’s wrong with the appearance.  Again, it’s about being tuned (pun intended) for the differences…. 

[rockabilly69]

20 hours ago, DetroitBlues said:

One would think the tone is close enough else the band would throw a fit otherwise…

I play in a lot of venues concerts were equipment is backlined, that doesn't mean I use the stuff. And I'm sure most of your guitar heroes that play there don't either. 

[DetroitBlues]

On 7/18/2022 at 1:50 PM, rockabilly69 said:

I play in a lot of venues concerts were equipment is backlined, that doesn't mean I use the stuff. And I'm sure most of your guitar heroes that play there don't either. 

True, but I think this comes to mind for the average audience member…

 

[rwinking]

 Is it true that you can’t just swap out speakers in the ToneMaster? I thought I had heard you can’t just throw a cellestion or a Weber in one and they have to be a certain kind.

One thing about the opry using them is that it is probably nice to have consistency. Having a rider saying that you want a fender deluxe at a festival or venue doesn’t necessarily mean you are going to get a good one. I have played enough of them that I can testify that there are a lot of twins and deluxes out there that suck. It may be blasphemy to say this but I have even played twins and deluxes from the 60s that sucked.

A guy in a band I am in is playing through a tonemaster super reverb. He likes it a lot. I never liked supers to begging with but I have to admit that his is really close.