DetroitBlues Posted January 10, 2023 Posted January 10, 2023 I've been lugging my Marshall DSL20C back and forth to practice, but I'd rather have an amp there I don't have to lug around. Been trying to find a 20+ watt amp that is inexpensive, sounds good, and under $350. Tall order in an overpriced used gear market. Had a couple hundred dollars in gift cards from birthdays/Christmas over a couple of years I sort of forgot about. So I have some money burning a hole in my pocket and a need for another amp. What I can I do? Ah yes, Guitar Center shopping I go! So went to GC's used gear site, looked up tube amps in my price range with the most amount of wattage. Found the Jet City JCA2212. I've had this amp in the past, not exactly a clean platform, but the crunch channel on its lowest preamp volume is clean-ish. This is probably my fourth Jet City amp over the years. (JCA2112, JCA22H, JCA20HV) I've never been disappointed in the amps just as long as you understand they are mostly one-trick ponies that are not known for clean tones. I figure I can swap a preamp 12AX7 with a 12AT7 to lower the gain if necessary. The earliest Jet City amps were Soldano designed, built in China. Not really bad amps if you want a decent overdriven sound at lower volumes and can't afford a real Soldano. Don't get me wrong, this does not sound just like a Soldano, but it has a "in the ballpark" sound. I can tell you, much like the Lil Dawg amp, its a much fuller/louder amp than the Marshall.
ridethatbike Posted January 10, 2023 Posted January 10, 2023 I always heard good things about those amps although I've never had the chance to play through one. I hope it scratches the itch for ya!
Steiner Posted January 10, 2023 Posted January 10, 2023 Cool beans DB. I like the 12AT7 idea. Mike said, when they were setting up the Jet City shop, he traveled there to verify the workers had hoods for soldering and clean, well lit work stations. The appreciation for the workers seems to have come through in their amps. As many Jet Citys(ies?) you've had, we still need to plug in a 4x12 and make waves! Congrats!
kbp810 Posted January 10, 2023 Posted January 10, 2023 Happy NuAD! Also like the 12AT7 swap idea, though if you need to procure a new one, it would be worth having it screened for low microphonics.
Kuz Posted January 10, 2023 Posted January 10, 2023 I tried the 12Ax7 to 12At7 swap before and hated it. It total changed the tone of the amp from a 3D harmonic rich tone to an anemic flat tone. Yes, the gain structure will be lowered but your tone will be lowered too.... IMHO, YMMV.
DetroitBlues Posted January 10, 2023 Author Posted January 10, 2023 2 hours ago, Kuz said: I tried the 12Ax7 to 12At7 swap before and hated it. It total changed the tone of the amp from a 3D harmonic rich tone to an anemic flat tone. Yes, the gain structure will be lowered but your tone will be lowered too.... IMHO, YMMV. I’m going to try it as-is, not going down that path unless I need to.
Kuz Posted January 10, 2023 Posted January 10, 2023 18 minutes ago, DetroitBlues said: I’m going to try it as-is, not going down that path unless I need to. I found it knocked the overall volume down a lot, so I had to turn it up considerably. So I guess turning up the volume offset the 30% less gain stack so what was the point? But it may work for you. I exclusively use pedals for my OD so maybe the At7 will work if you are using the amp's break up.
DetroitBlues Posted January 11, 2023 Author Posted January 11, 2023 12 hours ago, Kuz said: I found it knocked the overall volume down a lot, so I had to turn it up considerably. So I guess turning up the volume offset the 30% less gain stack so what was the point? But it may work for you. I exclusively use pedals for my OD so maybe the At7 will work if you are using the amp's break up. My thought was an ability to increase the clean headroom. I suspect the preamp volume will be impacted, but the power section should be pushed without distorting. I use OD/Distortion pedals to push the amp.
Steiner Posted January 11, 2023 Posted January 11, 2023 1 hour ago, DetroitBlues said: My thought was an ability to increase the clean headroom. I suspect the preamp volume will be impacted, but the power section should be pushed without distorting. I use OD/Distortion pedals to push the amp. For a $10 tube, it's worth the effort. I'd wager your method, on any high gain amp, will work.
Kuz Posted January 11, 2023 Posted January 11, 2023 10 hours ago, Steiner said: For a $10 tube, it's worth the effort. I'd wager your method, on any high gain amp, will work. It will work, but it will change the tone. Kind of like switching from big and full A2 magnets in a humbucker to lower output, more focus and less harmonic A3 magnets.
kbp810 Posted January 12, 2023 Posted January 12, 2023 18 minutes ago, Kuz said: It will work, but it will change the tone. Kind of like switching from big and full A2 magnets in a humbucker to lower output, more focus and less harmonic A3 magnets. It depends... your analogy is an accurate one, and very often true; but sometimes it's can also be like switching from scorching hot ceramic/active pickups down to a rich and full A2 humbucker. Varies greatly on the amp and what's plugged into the amp. It doesn't even always change the tone; sometimes it's just the rough equivalent of turning the volume down a few notches.. but then again, sometimes it will absolutely change the tone, and not for the better. Sometimes it will kill the harmonics and/or leave you with a fizzy or flat sound. If you've got an unruly amp, never hurts to give it a try and see how it works out.
Steiner Posted January 12, 2023 Posted January 12, 2023 7 minutes ago, kbp810 said: It depends... your analogy is an accurate one, and very often true; but sometimes it's can also be like switching from scorching hot ceramic/active pickups down to a rich and full A2 humbucker. Varies greatly on the amp and what's plugged into the amp. It doesn't even always change the tone; sometimes it's just the rough equivalent of turning the volume down a few notches.. but then again, sometimes it will absolutely change the tone, and not for the better. Sometimes it will kill the harmonics and/or leave you with a fizzy or flat sound. If you've got an unruly amp, never hurts to give it a try and see how it works out. Pure poetry! +1
Kuz Posted January 12, 2023 Posted January 12, 2023 11 hours ago, kbp810 said: It depends... your analogy is an accurate one, and very often true; but sometimes it's can also be like switching from scorching hot ceramic/active pickups down to a rich and full A2 humbucker. Varies greatly on the amp and what's plugged into the amp. It doesn't even always change the tone; sometimes it's just the rough equivalent of turning the volume down a few notches.. but then again, sometimes it will absolutely change the tone, and not for the better. Sometimes it will kill the harmonics and/or leave you with a fizzy or flat sound. If you've got an unruly amp, never hurts to give it a try and see how it works out. +1 Well said.
DetroitBlues Posted January 12, 2023 Author Posted January 12, 2023 18 hours ago, kbp810 said: It depends... your analogy is an accurate one, and very often true; but sometimes it's can also be like switching from scorching hot ceramic/active pickups down to a rich and full A2 humbucker. Varies greatly on the amp and what's plugged into the amp. It doesn't even always change the tone; sometimes it's just the rough equivalent of turning the volume down a few notches.. but then again, sometimes it will absolutely change the tone, and not for the better. Sometimes it will kill the harmonics and/or leave you with a fizzy or flat sound. If you've got an unruly amp, never hurts to give it a try and see how it works out. It can be a bit of an experiment. But, I don't like to change things until I try them first. Whether its a tube or a speaker or even pickups. I try to give them the benefit of the doubt before I make a change. Not that I always thought that way, but perhaps I'm subscribing to the 5 Watt World analogy, the most amount of music from the least amount of gear. I interpret that is let's not be hasty and spend money when you don't need to.
DetroitBlues Posted January 13, 2023 Author Posted January 13, 2023 Had my first go at the amp last night to refamiliarize myself with the amp. If I kept the preamp volume set around 2-3 it stays releatively clean. My pedals do push it to higher gain and most importantly, using the guitar volume does allow the sound to clean up. I have to try it further when the wifey isn't home so I can really let the tubes breathe to see how it reacts before I make any decisions. The amp sounds really full in comparison to my Marshall. Again, this is the difference between an amp that has minimal complexity vs an amp that has all sort of bells and whistles.
DetroitBlues Posted January 17, 2023 Author Posted January 17, 2023 Had a few moments this weekend to let the valves breath. (I.E, I could finally turn it up!) Keeping the preamp volume at 2-3 and the master volume around 6, this amp sounds great as is. While not Fender clean, it is a Marshall clean sound. Loud and proud, and good use of the guitar volume keeps it clean. The amp sounds glorious with my different flavors of OD/Distortion. To my ears, this amp sounds much better than my Marshall amp. Not sure if this will be a gig amp, as I think I'm going to use my Lil Dawg Pug for live work.
Steiner Posted January 17, 2023 Posted January 17, 2023 Ah! Guitar volume attenuation. What a capitol idea. I agree with your assessment of Fender clean, there's nothing better than that Marshall chime. Your Pug should do the trick. Enjoy!
DetroitBlues Posted January 18, 2023 Author Posted January 18, 2023 13 hours ago, Steiner said: Ah! Guitar volume attenuation. What a capitol idea. I agree with your assessment of Fender clean, there's nothing better than that Marshall chime. Your Pug should do the trick. Enjoy! Such a novel concept the little knobs on a guitar actually serve a purpose. Evan at one point thought he needed new pickups in his 150GT because they were causing too much distortion when he was playing clean. I told him to start playing, rolled back the volume and what do you know? The distortion cleaned right up. Wish more people were taught that sooner in life. As far as Marshall vs. Fender, definitely a tonal difference between the 2 for clean tones possibly because Marshall does have more mid tone sculpting unlike most vintage style Fenders.
ridethatbike Posted January 18, 2023 Posted January 18, 2023 All guitar players of the rock/blues/good music persuasion should watch Warren Haynes play a song and see how many times he adjusts his volume and tone. Derek Trucks is much the same way. I know those guys are pretty mediocre and all but they play out pretty regularly. /s
TalismanRich Posted January 18, 2023 Posted January 18, 2023 1 hour ago, ridethatbike said: All guitar players of the rock/blues/good music persuasion should watch Warren Haynes play a song and see how many times he adjusts his volume and tone. Derek Trucks is much the same way. I know those guys are pretty mediocre and all but they play out pretty regularly. /s Mediocre... you're a funny guy!!!!
Steiner Posted January 18, 2023 Posted January 18, 2023 2 hours ago, ridethatbike said: All guitar players of the rock/blues/good music persuasion should watch Warren Haynes play a song and see how many times he adjusts his volume and tone. Derek Trucks is much the same way. I know those guys are pretty mediocre and all but they play out pretty regularly. /s Doesn't Warren play through an SLO? Those amp are sensitive to rolling off the vol/tone. Nobody ever told me about the trick but once you see enough big boys doing it...
ridethatbike Posted January 18, 2023 Posted January 18, 2023 51 minutes ago, Steiner said: Doesn't Warren play through an SLO? Those amp are sensitive to rolling off the vol/tone. Nobody ever told me about the trick but once you see enough big boys doing it... The SLO has been a constant of his for quite awhile. He usually plays dual amps, it was a Diaz for a long time but switched to Homestead amps maybe 5 years ago? The SLO is set to be the more dominant of the pair, fwiw. It's pretty surprising how many tones you can get out of one 4 pot humbuggy equipped guitar.
Steiner Posted January 18, 2023 Posted January 18, 2023 The relationship within and between the pots makes a vast difference in getting different voices from the instruments. Some lore about that period of guitars is that the CTS pots were far more accurate than the current Chinese CTS pots. Given forethought about the circuit and interactions, one can feasibly optimize the end result. That's why I've planted so much cash at RS Guitar Works' door. They've helped me climb that next sound ladder rung. I've recently found StellarTone.com. They appear to have the precision down but I'm not sure they've maximized the overall circuit; a quick review of their website confirms the snake-oil marketing push (can you say throback?) Both companies have discovered an edge but neither can seem to tell you why - serendipity? Joe, like Warren and Derek, does a lot of knob adjusting and swirls within songs. It works
ridethatbike Posted January 18, 2023 Posted January 18, 2023 Might as well drive this thread clear off the tracks… I really like RS guitar works as well, that’s what I have in my Tokai ES right now. Although I am troubleshooting a bad neck pickup ground at the moment; I’d much rather be playing…
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