Gianluca Posted January 28, 2023 Posted January 28, 2023 just came across this article, could that be a good thing?https://guitar.com/news/industry-news/gibson-heritage-legal-battle-over-settlement-dismissal-trademark-antitrust/
blackholegravity Posted January 28, 2023 Posted January 28, 2023 That's good news, Gibson's constant litigation and legal threats are what steered me away from them. I like their guitars (if you find a good one), but hate their business practices...Gibson should focus on making better guitars, not trying to eliminate all competition via the courts.
skydog52 Posted January 28, 2023 Posted January 28, 2023 From Heritage sight. Well the lawyers made some money.........................
davesultra Posted January 28, 2023 Posted January 28, 2023 I believe Gibson found out that Heritage has deeper pockets than originally thought. A case of “Going along to get along”.
Gitfiddler Posted January 29, 2023 Posted January 29, 2023 Excellent! Get back to building guitars...and not paying lawyers!!
Dick Seacup Posted January 29, 2023 Posted January 29, 2023 3 hours ago, davesultra said: I believe Gibson found out that Heritage has deeper pockets than originally thought. A case of “Going along to get along”. I'm not a lawyer, and I don't play one on TV, but, from what I read, I figure Gibbons effed up when they decided not to fulfill their contract with Swee Lee because "Heritage." Seems to me that opened the door to the monopoly counter-suit. Which seemed to have legs.
MartyGrass Posted January 29, 2023 Posted January 29, 2023 19 hours ago, skydog52 said: From Heritage sight. Well the lawyers made some money......................... They lost me here. Everything was fine until the "over 30 years, known for its attention to detail and quality". I would go along with beautiful. The wood sourcing was really good. The concepts also were excellent (maybe not Little One). But for a long time detailed work ranged from perfect to out of specs. The quality now seems excellent. I've known a number of people who worked at Heritage in the lean years and who stayed until better paying work opened up elsewhere. Some of them filed frets, put on hardware, masked for stingers, did routing, binding scraping, and soldering. They were decent laborers but not committed craftsmen, and some said they were under time pressure. If we are to be honest, it was common in the earlier years to have tuners not lined up, filing marks on the fretboard (often abundantly), stingers off center, binding not fully scraped, and sloppy soldering. I've had several guitars, very good guitars, that I had Pete Moreno straighten the tuners because they were weirdly rotating in a few of them. I had him recut the routing on a Super Eagle because the pickup routes were cut at an angle compared to the fretboard. Ren Wall was telling me one day at Heritage that he would inspect the Jay Wolfe rack of guitars with a close eye because of the high rejection rate by Jay. I saw some of the rejects with Jay's comments on why he was sending them back. I don't think it is disloyal to speak the truth. Heritage has come a long way in terms of great consistency. Having said all of this, all of my Heritages are from the earlier days. They are among the most beautiful instruments out there. The archtops equal or best Gibson and Guild from any era. So I'm posting this knowing some will take offense. Those who were around in the first few decades will recall the growing pains Heritage had. Yes, it is true they made some flawless instruments, many of them, during that era. But it is deceptive messaging to imply that Heritage was known in the earlier years for attention to detail. It was better known for the shape of its headstock, no long tenon, great value, and traits of being handmade (in other words minor flaws). To pretend otherwise negates the efforts of the older HOC members to support Heritage in its early years.
skydog52 Posted January 29, 2023 Posted January 29, 2023 I understand your post and have owned some of those less than perfect guitars. I have also owned the same not so perfect guitars from Gibson. I wish I had a dollar for every time Jim or Marv said to me there is no perfect guitar. I am absolutely on board with the Original Heritage owners. Love the story and the people involved. We've lost one of the original owners, JP Moats and the other founders are getting up in age and starting to show the signs of it. I'm just glad we have this Forum to share some of their stories to the people who didn't get to know them like some of us do. The new Heritage is a different animal from what we were used to. I still try to support them. Until I don't.
hinesarchtop Posted January 29, 2023 Posted January 29, 2023 The consistency of quality really is way up now. I too have some vintage Heritage archtops, which are amongst my favorite ones I own. The crooked tuners drives me crazy because it's so easy to avoid. Most of the old headstocks were off center, giving a slight broken nose effect.
hinesarchtop Posted January 29, 2023 Posted January 29, 2023 I miss J.P. he was passionate, and loved the fancy wood!
MartyGrass Posted January 29, 2023 Posted January 29, 2023 The story of Heritage is for many of us a journey. The original company owners were not sophisticated businessmen and marketers. I have the sense that Gibson saw them as no threat and sold them the factory and much of its contents. Decades later, Heritage is taking market share away from Gibson. Of course almost everyone involved in the decision to sell 225 Parsons to them is retired or dead. Heritage broke it's own rules back in the day and did a lot of one-offs without heavy fees. They were wild men (and a few women).
hinesarchtop Posted January 29, 2023 Posted January 29, 2023 A very early Golden Eagle from the good ol days.
hinesarchtop Posted January 29, 2023 Posted January 29, 2023 A beautifully executed instrument. The back is very unique in that the center is on the quartered grain revealing flame figure, but it immediately transitions to flatsawn orientated grain displaying a lovey quilted figure.
MartyGrass Posted January 29, 2023 Posted January 29, 2023 That's amazing. The cupid's bow is a work of art.
tsp17 Posted January 30, 2023 Posted January 30, 2023 We wouldn't all still be hanging around HOC for this many years if we didn't love the essence of Heritage, the history, and many guitars bought, sold, traded, loved, the occasional disappointment and the journey. Something about the history, the people, and the underdog story.... Some of the best and most beautiful guitars I've ever played and or owned have been Heritage (mostly purchased from fellow HOC members). Currently 2 out of 3 electrics in my stable. Neither will ever be sold.
TalismanRich Posted January 30, 2023 Posted January 30, 2023 It's good to see that the crazy back and forth lawsuits have been resolved. Get back to the business at hand, making and playing nice guitars and posting guitar porn of them.
DetroitBlues Posted January 31, 2023 Posted January 31, 2023 I've had a couple bad Heritages, my first H150 had a twisted neck. Most of mine were used and reworked several times to suite the tastes of the previous owners or just myself. Later models were much nicer right off the bat. I've had no issues with my 535, my son loves his 150. My 137 is having the electronics swapped out for a microphonic issue that isn't the manufacturing process fault. The first agreement Heritage had placed restrictions on some models and shapes. What I am curious to know the impact of the current production models. Doesn't look like anything changed, so perhaps it was Gibson settling with Heritage, meaning Heritage won their case not Heritage compromising to meet Gibson demands.
davesultra Posted January 31, 2023 Posted January 31, 2023 Yeah, it wasn’t like Heritage was getting ready to reissue the H-357 anytime soon.
MartyGrass Posted January 31, 2023 Posted January 31, 2023 Just now, davesultra said: Yeah, it wasn’t like Heritage was getting ready to reissue the H-357 anytime soon. I wish.
Gianluca Posted January 31, 2023 Author Posted January 31, 2023 17 minutes ago, DetroitBlues said: Doesn't look like anything changed, so perhaps it was Gibson settling with Heritage, meaning Heritage won their case not Heritage compromising to meet Gibson demands. agreed, same as I thought
DetroitBlues Posted January 31, 2023 Posted January 31, 2023 I didn't see anything different on their website, so the core models and custom shop custom core are still there.
Spectrum13 Posted January 31, 2023 Posted January 31, 2023 Does this mean the 150 can go back to the gibson cutaway and headstock??
DavesNotHere Posted January 31, 2023 Posted January 31, 2023 On 1/29/2023 at 8:50 AM, MartyGrass said: "They lost me here. Everything was fine until the "over 30 years, known for its attention to detail and quality". I would go along with beautiful. The wood sourcing was really good. The concepts also were excellent (maybe not Little One). But for a long time detailed work ranged from perfect to out of specs. The quality now seems excellent. ....... I don't necessarily disagree with anything you said, but "Half assin' it for over thirty years" doesn't make for good copy.
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