Heritage lacquer formula changes and checking

[exileonmeatspace]

I've had multiple Heritage guitars for many years, two 1999's and a 1997 and all living non-pampered lives in the Northeast, and I've always noticed that compared so some of my other guitars the finishes on these have never checked aside from some very minor checking on one of the 1999's.

I've read that Heritage has changed their formula at various points, and being a big fan of the subtle texture of natural checking (as opposed to exaggerated artificial aging) I've been thinking about picking up another Heritage that has a more checking-prone finish.

Curious about any and all experience here.

[davesultra]

I’m only aware of some checking “issues” around 2015/16. Beyond that I’m not sure about any finish formulation changes, although I would suspect that there have been some. I’ve owned many Heritage guitars ranging from 87’-22’. I’ve had some checked ones, but then again I buy used. I’ve seen many checked “H” guitars over the years though.

[exileonmeatspace]

2 minutes ago, davesultra said:

I’m only aware of some checking “issues” around 2015/16. Beyond that I’m not sure about any finish formulation changes, although I would suspect that there have been some. I’ve owned many Heritage guitars ranging from 87’-22’. I’ve had some checked ones, but then again I buy used. I’ve seen many checked “H” guitars over the years though.

Thanks for the insight! Do you mean 2015/2016 guitars were more prone to checking? Arrived from factory with more checking?

 

As I understand it that time period was a bit of a dip in quality control across the board. 

[DetroitBlues]

My 2016 H535 show no sign of checking.  It hangs in my basement on an exterior wall.  Other than an occasional truss rod turn, it has been stable.  My 2020 137 is supposed to ship back to me any week now, no idea if the cold shipping methods will impact it or not.

I've had several Heritages from the 80's, 90's, and 2000's, I have not experienced checking on any of them.  It will happen, but its rare I believe.

[ridethatbike]

I had the same question here and I even wrote the factory. This is their response:

"Thanks for writing in. The guitar has a nitrocellulose lacquer finish which will settle into the woodgrain over time. It may or may not have checking as it ages. It is dependent on temperature and humidity. As it stands, we have not had any reports of any Custom Core checking since their release a couple of years ago."

My CC is over a year old and hasn't shown any signs of checking. I've had good results checking other instruments (even Gibson reissues) but not sure if this one is going to check or not. I'll cycle this thing a few more times just to be sure, but I'd wager there's too much stablizers/plasticizers for these things to check the way we've grown accustomed to seeing (which I'd add is done more with razor blades than anything else).

I'd wouldn't mind seeing a CC Artisan Aged in person, but I think they are a little gratuitous with the schmutz they put in the cracks to make them stand out.

[exileonmeatspace]

Thanks folks, really helpful feedback here.

 

Sounds like if I'm looking for some really subtle textural checking, Heritage is unlikely to be the ticket. Seems it's more one extreme or the other.

[ridethatbike]

Holy smokes, I stand corrected. This is after two hours in the freezer. Didn’t even need a hair dryer. 

I’m still wiping it down to get the moisture off, so don’t y’all worry about that

The headstock area is really hard to see. Gibbys were much easier to see checking there, maybe their nitro is thicker?

[ridethatbike]

I probably just added a few hundred dollars resale value to non-artisan aged owner's 150s for all the fools like me.

[exileonmeatspace]

3 minutes ago, ridethatbike said:

I probably just added a few hundred dollars resale value to non-artisan aged owner's 150s for all the fools like me.

Well I'll be...

Looks like Heritage is still in the running for me. At this point I was mostly looking at Eastman and Maybach, but if I'm honest I have a soft spot for Heritage and I'm not sure there is *any* guitar company, on any continent, that can pull off a lemon burst like Heritage does, especially with vintagey non-bookmatched tops.

[TalismanRich]

I've only got 5 Heritages,  ranging from 1987 to 2006.   None of them have any checking.

You'll probably have little to no chance of determining if there was a "formulation change".   From the visits we've made to the factory,  the cans of lacquer were Behlen/Mohawk, if I memory serves me.   It's been quite a few years and I don't see any photos of the cans in my gallery.

[davesultra]

My recently acquired 22’ H535 has some very light checking lines on the face of the headstock. But then again I did purchase it as an unofficial “2nd” from Dave’s Guitar Shop.

[skydog52]

22 hours ago, davesultra said:

I’m only aware of some checking “issues” around 2015/16. Beyond that I’m not sure about any finish formulation changes, although I would suspect that there have been some. I’ve owned many Heritage guitars ranging from 87’-22’. I’ve had some checked ones, but then again I buy used. I’ve seen many checked “H” guitars over the years though.

I remember Marv telling me they think they got a bad batch of Nitro around this timeline. Last I heard there was a rep coming out

to check it out, no pun intended. They didn't have any issues after that time period.

[davesultra]

1 minute ago, skydog52 said:

I remember Marv telling me they think they got a bad batch of Nitro around this timeline. Last I heard there was a rep coming out

to check it out, no pun intended. They didn't have any issues after that time period.

Yup, I do believe that’s what I had heard as well.

[bolero]

I can't believe some of the crazy shit people do to their guitars. Do people buy PRS private stock guitars & throw them in the freezer, "relic" them too?

[exileonmeatspace]

24 minutes ago, bolero said:

I can't believe some of the crazy shit people do to their guitars. Do people buy PRS private stock guitars & throw them in the freezer, "relic" them too?

I dunno, maybe I would. Are they nitro? 

[exileonmeatspace]

Here's a particularly elegant example of a pre-checked expensive boutique guitar:

https://www.vintageandrare.com/product/Eggle-Patrick-James-Eggle-Patrick-James-Eggle-Macon-Single-Cut-83770

 

[TalismanRich]

I think of checking of the finish the same way I think of rust developing on a car...    I don't want it,  I don't need it.   I personally don't think it makes a guitar look or feel better.   If you play a guitar for 20 years and it wears the finish off and gets a few dents, fine.   If you drive a car 100,000 miles, it's going to get chips in the paint,  a ding or two on the doors, maybe a bit of rust in the fender well.  That's natural.    But to stick a guitar in a freezer and then hitting it with a hair dryer is, to me,  the same as taking rocks and throwing them at your nice new 2023 Charger Hellcat,  then taking a disk sander to the paint.   Maybe a whack with a hammer on the tail light so you can put some red tape over the hole, just to give it that extra bit of flair.    When was the last time you saw someone take their new car home and do that?

Just my personal opinion about fake relicing.  I know others feel differently.

[TalismanRich]

4 hours ago, exileonmeatspace said:

Here's a particularly elegant example of a pre-checked expensive boutique guitar:

https://www.vintageandrare.com/product/Eggle-Patrick-James-Eggle-Patrick-James-Eggle-Macon-Single-Cut-83770

You really think that looks "elegant"?    If I bought a guitar that looked like that, either I get a discount, or it goes back.

[exileonmeatspace]

3 hours ago, TalismanRich said:

I think of checking of the finish the same way I think of rust developing on a car...    I don't want it,  I don't need it.   I personally don't think it makes a guitar look or feel better.   If you play a guitar for 20 years and it wears the finish off and gets a few dents, fine.   If you drive a car 100,000 miles, it's going to get chips in the paint,  a ding or two on the doors, maybe a bit of rust in the fender well.  That's natural.    But to stick a guitar in a freezer and then hitting it with a hair dryer is, to me,  the same as taking rocks and throwing them at your nice new 2023 Charger Hellcat,  then taking a disk sander to the paint.   Maybe a whack with a hammer on the tail light so you can put some red tape over the hole, just to give it that extra bit of flair.    When was the last time you saw someone take their new car home and do that?

Just my personal opinion about fake relicing.  I know others feel differently.

Less Charger Hellcat and more Jeep TJ.

If they own it and like it that way, then that's cool, as long as it isn't a rare part of history.

 

10 times out of 10 I'll thumbs up relicing a new axe over somebody taking a 1956 Les Paul and chopping it up into a Burst "conversion".

[High Flying Bird]

8 hours ago, TalismanRich said:

Just my personal opinion about fake relicing.  I know others feel differently.

Rich, I don't understand it either.  To each their own. 

[exileonmeatspace]

Even if you're not into it, the idea has been around forever:

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wabi-sabi

The aesthetic is sometimes described as one of appreciating beauty that is "imperfect, impermanent, and incomplete"

[ridethatbike]

20 hours ago, exileonmeatspace said:

Here's a particularly elegant example of a pre-checked expensive boutique guitar:

https://www.vintageandrare.com/product/Eggle-Patrick-James-Eggle-Patrick-James-Eggle-Macon-Single-Cut-83770

 

I do like that heel. 

[bolero]

I guess it's easier than driving to a gig in Upper Michigan mid-February, with all your gear in the back of an unheated cube van :)

 I hear Fender is doing a limited run of Rory Gallagher strats they're shipping to Ireland & leaving in a flooded ditch for a few days, to get that authentic Rory wear & Irish peat aroma. No wording on price yet.

[ElNumero]

On 2/6/2023 at 7:38 PM, exileonmeatspace said:

Thanks for the insight! Do you mean 2015/2016 guitars were more prone to checking? Arrived from factory with more checking?

 

As I understand it that time period was a bit of a dip in quality control across the board. 

I can attest to it. I bought a 2015 Millennium DC from Wolfe that had checking from the factory.  Jay said they had issues that year. So I got a little knocked off the price and it has character!

[ElNumero]

On 2/12/2023 at 2:00 PM, bolero said:

I guess it's easier than driving to a gig in Upper Michigan mid-February, with all your gear in the back of an unheated cube van

 I hear Fender is doing a limited run of Rory Gallagher strats they're shipping to Ireland & leaving in a flooded ditch for a few days, to get that authentic Rory wear & Irish peat aroma. No wording on price yet.

Your obviously kidding!