Does the H150 sound different than a G brand LP?

[zguitar71]

I recently watched a blind test video that Andersons loves to make. This one had 11 different versions of the classic LP type guitar. One of the guitars included is a Heritage CC H150, the tester Rob has good things to say about the guitar, calls it “Les Pauly” but does say it doesn’t sound like a Les Paul. I have not found this in my life, I can’t tell the difference. I can tell a difference from one guitar to the next within G branded LPs and the same is true with Heritage but they all have the same classic LP sound though different flavors of it. If the Heritage has a unique sound then is there a “Heritage” sound? Rob plays the Heritage at 7:34 into the video.There is a review at the end of the video and he talks more about the 150 having a different sound. Mostly I take this with a grain of salt but why not have a discussion about it? Does only a G brand LP sound like an LP? This is eluded to in the video.

 Heritage

[TalismanRich]

Z,  it's obvious you don't have cork sniffing golden ears.

They did the same thing with a bunch of Klon clones.   Of course they were turning knobs and adjusting the sound so that moves the results.  Is A=B or A=E?  Is A=A? 

In my opinion, the biggest factor in the "tone" of an electric guitar (maybe 3/4) will be in the pickups.  THEN you can start adding in all the other stuff,  wood,  hardware,  setup, pick (yeah, your choice of pick has a HUGE influence).   But you're absolutely right, there's no absolute target LP tone to my ear.    You can compare the LP to the 150cc and say they are different in some maybe minor respect, but if you pick up 10 150s and 10 LPs, you'll probably find the same variation within those 10.  I did that some years back when playing a bunch of ES335s at Wilcutt.   Even unplugged they were all different.  WIthin a range (and assuming you are talking multiples with the same model pickup) they'll have a certain characteristic compared to a Strat, or a Tele, or a Rick or a Gretsch.  Yank out the 225 pickups or the Burstbuckers and put in some Duncan Invaders, or EMGs and you've got a completely different animal.

I find that guitars feel different, and that would clue me into what I'm playing pretty drastically.  

 

 

[davesultra]

I find most Mahogany necked/Mahogany body & Maple capped guitars have a general sound, regardless of manufacturer. I agree with Rich regarding pickups making the biggest difference. Lesson here is that, sniffing corks can make you lose your mind!

[zguitar71]

Yes, I agree the pickups have the biggest influence on the sound of the guitar. The 225 pickup are a bit bright so possible that is what gave the impression that it doesn’t sound like a LP. 

[nuke]

I detest the absolute absurdity of YouTube videos like this.  There are a couple of YT formulas to get a lot of hits on guitar vids, the first being, "...I can make this cheap used squier just as good as the custom shop all those rich guys paid too much for!"  The other is "you can't hear it/yes I can hear it!"

First of all, Gibson has churned out a LOT of things with the "Les Paul" model name on it.  Thing is, they ALL SOUND DIFFERENT even though they all say, "Gibson Les Paul". It depends, what wood, what construction method, what hardware, what pickups and even what strings are on it, what it is plugged into and most of all, who's playing it. 

My 1998 H150 came with SD 59's, and Nashville Tune-o-Matic and a zing stop bar.  It weighs a bit over 9lbs.  It also came with 70's era Les Paul potentiometer in it, namely, 300K/100k volumes and tones. So, it sounded pretty dark most of the time I've owned it. I had occasion to replace a pot, was surprised to find the values and put in the more commonly used "vintage" era 500k pots. Incredible difference in tone, much brighter, fuller and a touch more output. 

I have a 60th Anniversary Gibson Les Paul 1960-Reissue, V2. It's 1 piece mahogany, no weight relief, 8lbs, 1oz in weight. It has the correct "'burst" era ABR-1 screwed into the wood and the light aluminum stop bar. It has the Custombucker III pickups, unpotted, alnico-III very PAF type in it, and the 50's era wiring.  It does that, "beefy telecaster" Les Paul thing, in spades. Plus, at 8lbs, it is a joy on my aging back. 

These two sound incredibly different from each other, despite being so extremely similar in so many ways. 

But my Gibson Les Paul sounds incredibly different than a Norlin era Les Paul with the pancake body and a maple neck, and different than an 11lb example from the 1980's with Tim Shaw's, or T-tops, or any of the overwound, ceramic magnet pickups they offered at the time. 

So, really, no one can hear the "brand", but you can discern between instruments that were built differently, of different materials and methods, even if the brand and model are the same. 

My just acquired 2001 H535 is super light and it gets that classic 335 tone. I had a 1997 ES335 "dot reissue" that sounded like poo, no matter what you did with it. 

[zguitar71]

1 hour ago, nuke said:

I detest the absolute absurdity of YouTube videos like this.  There are a couple of YT formulas to get a lot of hits on guitar vids, the first being, "...I can make this cheap used squier just as good as the custom shop all those rich guys paid too much for!"  The other is "you can't hear it/yes I can hear it!"

First of all, Gibson has churned out a LOT of things with the "Les Paul" model name on it.  Thing is, they ALL SOUND DIFFERENT even though they all say, "Gibson Les Paul". It depends, what wood, what construction method, what hardware, what pickups and even what strings are on it, what it is plugged into and most of all, who's playing it. 

My 1998 H150 came with SD 59's, and Nashville Tune-o-Matic and a zing stop bar.  It weighs a bit over 9lbs.  It also came with 70's era Les Paul potentiometer in it, namely, 300K/100k volumes and tones. So, it sounded pretty dark most of the time I've owned it. I had occasion to replace a pot, was surprised to find the values and put in the more commonly used "vintage" era 500k pots. Incredible difference in tone, much brighter, fuller and a touch more output. 

I have a 60th Anniversary Gibson Les Paul 1960-Reissue, V2. It's 1 piece mahogany, no weight relief, 8lbs, 1oz in weight. It has the correct "'burst" era ABR-1 screwed into the wood and the light aluminum stop bar. It has the Custombucker III pickups, unpotted, alnico-III very PAF type in it, and the 50's era wiring.  It does that, "beefy telecaster" Les Paul thing, in spades. Plus, at 8lbs, it is a joy on my aging back. 

These two sound incredibly different from each other, despite being so extremely similar in so many ways. 

But my Gibson Les Paul sounds incredibly different than a Norlin era Les Paul with the pancake body and a maple neck, and different than an 11lb example from the 1980's with Tim Shaw's, or T-tops, or any of the overwound, ceramic magnet pickups they offered at the time. 

So, really, no one can hear the "brand", but you can discern between instruments that were built differently, of different materials and methods, even if the brand and model are the same. 

My just acquired 2001 H535 is super light and it gets that classic 335 tone. I had a 1997 ES335 "dot reissue" that sounded like poo, no matter what you did with it. 

I completely agree that G’s LPs have changed over the years. Just taking a standard model, the Norland difference is huge, many had 3 piece maple necks. If they put on a blindfold and played a mid 70s LP with a pancake body and maple neck would they say it doesn’t sound like a LP or would they gush over how great and perfectly LP it sounds. It really is ludicrous to think the branding on a headstock could make a difference in tone on otherwise identically built guitars. 

[High Flying Bird]

20 years ore more ago people would buy digital cameras and test them and the lenses by taking pics of newspapers tape to their walls and go on about the good and bad.  They never used their cameras to get decent photos.  They would buy and sell and buy and sell -never satisfied.  Was it the gear or was it the photographer?  These discussions always take me back to that. 

[hopkinwfg]

There is a certain wood qualities that brings out the tone which each of us are looking at.... not just the G's Rs which i personally felt they are consistent in everyway which played unplugged its so loud and has that girthy mid quack... where the H150 new era i recieved sound more balanced out sweeter chimer than the Gs.... 

I did a comparison when i first recieves my H150 oxblood it turns out that the QC isnt at best and i wanna do an exchange but i ended up keeping the H150 after testing out a new piece whom Heritage had sent out.... 

The first piece i gotten weights about 9lbs where the new replacement felt lighter and am sure i did set the string height to roughly same ballpark and tune were same gauge too.... but what it impressed on me was the original whom i gotten just sounded more ballsy, tighter more aggressive then the new replacement piece which sounded "meh" 

Since then i always think heavier LP would more or less sounded better imo...?  

Into the Gs i own 1 black beauty R7 an R8 and R9.... both the Rs plays and sounded fantastic while i gotta chance to try a Standard LP and the tone it yield is telling.... 

[bolero]

 I had a Gibson R7 LPC black beauty reissue & while it sounded good, it must have weighed 12 lbs or more, and the tuners were crap. They sort all their heaviest mahogany body blanks into the LPC builds for some stupid reason. I bet the original 50s LPC's didn't weigh 12 lbs.

 I custom ordered a Heritage H157, asked them to use all mahogany for the body just like the original 50's LPC's, and unlike the H157's which had a maple cap.

I transferred the Throbaks I had in the R7 BB into the H157 and that guitar just kills!

 Then I suggested to Marv they should make that a standard Heritage model, just like the original 50s Les Paul Customs. With P90s too. I said all the vintage aficionados out there might be quite fond of that idea. Heritage did make that limited edition P90 mahogany H157 run about a year later.

Anyway in that case, this Heritage H157 is definitely a better guitar. I think a lot depends on the wood, and the weight. Which is unique to each instrument. Once you start using different pickups & hardware there's other variables at play, hard to generalize. Good wood & crap parts? Crap wood & good parts?

[bolero]

I tossed that last sentence out in a hurry & can't edit the post anymore: but "crap" is an exaggeration of what I meant to say.

[mars_hall]

Been playing a while and believe if you have the ear, every single guitar will have a subtle difference in response from the next. 

The difference heard will be based on the variation in everything involved in the system, delivery, and individual perception within that moment. 

You may arrive somewhere close in an arbitrary tonal neighborhood, but you will never be at the house because it has never existed.

[bobmeyrick]

If you want Les Paul-type comparison videos, I reckon these are guys are the best...

 

14 hours ago, nuke said:

My 1998 H150 came with SD 59's, and Nashville Tune-o-Matic and a zing stop bar.  It weighs a bit over 9lbs.  It also came with 70's era Les Paul potentiometer in it, namely, 300K/100k volumes and tones.

I seem to recall in Doug and Pat's second video they changed the pots in their Heritage to 500k with good results... (9 minutes into the Doug and Pat Show Pickup Shootout 2)

 

[zguitar71]

I’m a firm believer in the wood of a guitar does mater. I also find I prefer the sound of my 9.25 lbs 150 to any other LP I’ve played or owned which includes a PRS, G brand, Collings, Tokai and Eastman. I still have the Tokai and the Eastmans. The others were all lighter weight guitars and they were more resonant or louder acoustically but the actual tone wasn’t the bell like ring on the bottom end that I really love about the 150 and every note has the same intensity.  That quality comes out through the amp, the Collings was close but not quite there. I have been lucky enough to play 2 Black Beauties, a ‘59 and a ‘60. Both were heavy probably upper 9 to 10 pounds and triple pickups. I passed on buying the ‘59 in 1988 for $1000 (if I could only reverse time) and the ‘60 I played in 2019 at a local shop with the $60k price tag hanging on it. The ‘60 was just dull.  I would not trade the 150 for either of these guitars. I would love to get my hands on one of the limited run 157s with the p90s, I’ve always had an attraction to the black customs. 

[bolero]

Hey that's good info on the vintage BB's

[hinesarchtop]

You could line up 7 R7s and they would sound similar, but not exactly the same.

A while back I had several L.P. style guitars in the house so a friend and I decided to have a tone party. The lineup consisted of an R7 goldtop from mid 2000s, a 70s L.P custom, a L.P. classic, and finally a core 150 with stock 225 pickups. We played all through a Suhr SL68 100w plexi style head into a 70s Marshall 412 bottom cab loaded with original blackbacks. I really do love a good R7 with the fatty neck and burstbuckers, but I've gotta say, we both clearly choose the Core 150 as the champion that day. When I first heard those 225 pickups I was underwhelmed.  I just didn't spend enough time to get what makes them good. The lower output makes for great clarity, but when run into an amp that is cranked up it was a thing of sonic beauty. Seriously, it sounded way better than the guitars that were there that day. The L.P. custom had some hand wound units...can't remember the winder. Also, the R7, whole lit was a nice guitar, I've had other ones that were better sounding. Saying that a core 150 sounded "Les Pauly" is an odd statement. 

[High Flying Bird]

23 hours ago, hopkinwfg said:

Since then i always think heavier LP would more or less sounded better imo...? 

I had a '99 H-150 that must have been between 11 to 12 pounds.  It sustained for days.  I liken it to a piano.  Great tone!  I sold it because it was so heavy -even in my late twenties.  I have only heard one guitar like that and it was a friend's father's '59. 

Yeah, nice suite...  I found several suits in the dumpster out side of my apartment.  I brought the jackets in to give to a young kid living near me.  A buddy said to put on the jacket and glasses and do a Stephen Stills thing and he took a photo.  The kid loved the jackets.  I didn't tell him they probably belonged to a dead man. 

[bolero]

That's a great pic!

I have a guitar that belonged to a dead man. I think of him every time I pick it up. I hope he approves of the stuff I play on it.

RIP

[hopkinwfg]

10 hours ago, hinesarchtop said:

You could line up 7 R7s and they would sound similar, but not exactly the same.

A while back I had several L.P. style guitars in the house so a friend and I decided to have a tone party. The lineup consisted of an R7 goldtop from mid 2000s, a 70s L.P custom, a L.P. classic, and finally a core 150 with stock 225 pickups. We played all through a Suhr SL68 100w plexi style head into a 70s Marshall 412 bottom cab loaded with original blackbacks. I really do love a good R7 with the fatty neck and burstbuckers, but I've gotta say, we both clearly choose the Core 150 as the champion that day. When I first heard those 225 pickups I was underwhelmed.  I just didn't spend enough time to get what makes them good. The lower output makes for great clarity, but when run into an amp that is cranked up it was a thing of sonic beauty. Seriously, it sounded way better than the guitars that were there that day. The L.P. custom had some hand wound units...can't remember the winder. Also, the R7, whole lit was a nice guitar, I've had other ones that were better sounding. Saying that a core 150 sounded "Les Pauly" is an odd statement. 

Was actually late on an LP... but isnt the gibson custombucker similiar to the 226 parson pickup? Both has alnico 3 magnets... except for 225 parsons is potted and that could have blanketed the unpotted pickup abit.... yet what are the tonal diff between these? The 225 parson vs Custombuckers.... 

[hopkinwfg]

4 hours ago, High Flying Bird said:

I had a '99 H-150 that must have been between 11 to 12 pounds.  It sustained for days.  I liken it to a piano.  Great tone!  I sold it because it was so heavy -even in my late twenties.  I have only heard one guitar like that and it was a friend's father's '59. 

Yeah, nice suite...  I found several suits in the dumpster out side of my apartment.  I brought the jackets in to give to a young kid living near me.  A buddy said to put on the jacket and glasses and do a Stephen Stills thing and he took a photo.  The kid loved the jackets.  I didn't tell him they probably belonged to a dead man. 

Nice picture !! The kids must have rocking hard on that 12LBS LP !!! In my personal point of view i am thinking heavier LP will sound better? Am still unsure and am sure many debate will arise on weight issue..... maybe am more of a old school guy... remember hearing Alex skolnick from Testament (previously a Heritage H150 artist) said weight is on the LP that rocks.... 

Fast forwarding today i was lucky to have pickup a 2001 era R7 BB at 4.5kg, R8 at 4.4kg and recently R9 at 4kg with my H150 oxblood whom i bought last year weights 4.3kg.... i probably think LP least at 4kg.... not too light else it wont feel like an LP

[davesultra]

I remember my first LP was a 79’ Custom. I swapped out the T-Tops, because they were too microphonic. I put a set of Duncan 59s’ which in 90’ were still considered great pickups. This was way before the whole “Boo-teek” thing started. That guitar sounded great, but had to weigh 12lbs. Back in 90’ I was a kid, so the weight wasn’t an issue. Over the years I’ve found that heavier LP style guitars sounded better (to me). Not sure if there’s any science behind that, or just by chance. 

[HANGAR18]

On 4/29/2024 at 7:21 PM, nuke said:

I detest the absolute absurdity of YouTube videos like this.  There are a couple of YT formulas to get a lot of hits on guitar vids, the first being, "...I can make this cheap used squier just as good as the custom shop all those rich guys paid too much for!"  The other is "you can't hear it/yes I can hear it!"

First of all, Gibson has churned out a LOT of things with the "Les Paul" model name on it.  Thing is, they ALL SOUND DIFFERENT even though they all say, "Gibson Les Paul". It depends, what wood, what construction method, what hardware, what pickups and even what strings are on it, what it is plugged into and most of all, who's playing it. 

My 1998 H150 came with SD 59's, and Nashville Tune-o-Matic and a zing stop bar.  It weighs a bit over 9lbs.  It also came with 70's era Les Paul potentiometer in it, namely, 300K/100k volumes and tones. So, it sounded pretty dark most of the time I've owned it. I had occasion to replace a pot, was surprised to find the values and put in the more commonly used "vintage" era 500k pots. Incredible difference in tone, much brighter, fuller and a touch more output. 

I have a 60th Anniversary Gibson Les Paul 1960-Reissue, V2. It's 1 piece mahogany, no weight relief, 8lbs, 1oz in weight. It has the correct "'burst" era ABR-1 screwed into the wood and the light aluminum stop bar. It has the Custombucker III pickups, unpotted, alnico-III very PAF type in it, and the 50's era wiring.  It does that, "beefy telecaster" Les Paul thing, in spades. Plus, at 8lbs, it is a joy on my aging back. 

These two sound incredibly different from each other, despite being so extremely similar in so many ways. 

But my Gibson Les Paul sounds incredibly different than a Norlin era Les Paul with the pancake body and a maple neck, and different than an 11lb example from the 1980's with Tim Shaw's, or T-tops, or any of the overwound, ceramic magnet pickups they offered at the time. 

So, really, no one can hear the "brand", but you can discern between instruments that were built differently, of different materials and methods, even if the brand and model are the same. 

My just acquired 2001 H535 is super light and it gets that classic 335 tone. I had a 1997 ES335 "dot reissue" that sounded like poo, no matter what you did with it. 

Well said. What if they did a blind test three times, all using the same exact guitar? How many times have each of us changed the tone of a single guitar by swapping out pickups? (I think the amp and the length of the cable makes a much bigger difference than the pickups.) Hell...  Billy Gibbons in recent years has been able to get a Les Paul tone out of a Telecaster by having his technician tweak the guitar and everything in the signal chain for his shows with ZZ Top. All we really need to do is pick one solid body guitar that feels good to play and that should theoretically be the last guitar we'll ever need because we can tweak it to sound like any solid body guitar ever made.

[Gitfiddler]

All of the above comments in this thread discussing how the many varieties of H150's, LP's, etc. sound different are very interesting and enlightening.

For some odd reason however, I sound pretty much the same on all of my solid body guitars.

[davesultra]

43 minutes ago, Gitfiddler said:

All of the above comments in this thread discussing how the many varieties of H150's, LP's, etc. sound different are very interesting and enlightening.

For some odd reason however, I sound pretty much the same on all of my solid body guitars.

I too sound the same regardless of what guitar I play. I can make them all sound like poo!

[Kuz]

Look, this is a very subjective and controversial subject on what impacts the tone of a guitar the most.

I will default to Terry Mcinturff (master luthier and has made guitars for all major artists).  Check him out on YouTube.  His main concept is that pickups are only microphones that amplify the acoustic sound of an electric guitar's chassis.  He states how Barbara Streisand's voice will definitely will change (mostly tonally) when she sings through different vintage microphones, but her basic vocal characteristics (her vibrato, her vocal range, her loudness and punch, ect) are still the same.  His point; the wood dictates the essentials of an electric guitar's tone & sustain.  Different pickups will change the overall tone/timbre, but it won't enhance the sustain, or the openness, or fix muddy or thin guitars.  Pickups can only magnify what the acoustic tone coming from the body's chassis is producing.  

I have owned two McInturff's (still own one Carolina Custom) and it is truly the best single cut/LP style guitar, I have ever played. 

Bottom line, when shopping for an electric guitar spend most of your time playing it acoustically listening for the overall tone, sustain, and check for dead spots (sustain and dead spots can't be fixed by different pickups). 

[LK155]

Well said, Kuz.  

My take on the whole thread is this:  Who cares?

So an H150 might sound different from a Gibson LP.  So what?  That doesn't make it a bad or undesirable guitar.  The entire 'holy grail' thing about LP tone is utter nonsense.  Why should that be the standard by which everything else is judged?

I think people should look at how much they enjoy an instrument's playability first--if you don't enjoy playing it, you're not likely to play it--, and maybe its sound later.  Sound can be altered in so many ways from pickups to pedals to amps to amp settings, and I think it's pointless to chase after some mythical sound they think they hear from something manufactured 65 years ago.