Kuz Posted May 4 Posted May 4 10 hours ago, LK155 said: Well said, Kuz. My take on the whole thread is this: Who cares? So an H150 might sound different from a Gibson LP. So what? That doesn't make it a bad or undesirable guitar. The entire 'holy grail' thing about LP tone is utter nonsense. Why should that be the standard by which everything else is judged? I think people should look at how much they enjoy an instrument's playability first--if you don't enjoy playing it, you're not likely to play it--, and maybe its sound later. Sound can be altered in so many ways from pickups to pedals to amps to amp settings, and I think it's pointless to chase after some mythical sound they think they hear from something manufactured 65 years ago. When you commission a custom build from Terry McInturff he will ask you for a SPECIFIC audio example of WHICH "Holy Grail Vintage Les Paul" you want him to replicate the tone of on his builds. He has FIVE different "Holy Grail Vintage Les Paul" tone voicing you can choose. He says there are 5 tonal choices because each "Vintage Burst LP" sounds different. Then he cautions to make sure you are factoring in the amp that was played, the speakers in the amp, and if any pedals were used with the recording of the "Vintage Burst Tone" you want him to try to replicate.
bolero Posted May 4 Posted May 4 Many people out there obsess over this stuff. A '59 Les Paul is the Stradivarius of the guitar world!! Like it or not. Can Terry build me a guitar that sounds like like Barbra Streisand? I think that should be the new standard in tone comparisons. "That '59 Les Paul sounds pretty good, but does it do a convincing Barbra Streisand?"
hopkinwfg Posted May 4 Posted May 4 12 hours ago, LK155 said: Well said, Kuz. My take on the whole thread is this: Who cares? So an H150 might sound different from a Gibson LP. So what? That doesn't make it a bad or undesirable guitar. The entire 'holy grail' thing about LP tone is utter nonsense. Why should that be the standard by which everything else is judged? I think people should look at how much they enjoy an instrument's playability first--if you don't enjoy playing it, you're not likely to play it--, and maybe its sound later. Sound can be altered in so many ways from pickups to pedals to amps to amp settings, and I think it's pointless to chase after some mythical sound they think they hear from something manufactured 65 years ago. Blame it on Eric clapton the woman tone, Jimmy page and of course Gary moore !! Lol irony is they all use G brand and thats how the R9, R7,R8,R0 was born to capture buyers like us looking for that famous tone, branding and look.... we been pressed by media in our heads, records magazines , posters were mostly famous players holding on to their Geez... inevitably we been suck into this deep dollars trench... yet in my humblest G is something special only on their upper tier their Rs.... their standards ,deluxe, classic has all been rounded up by H150 (standard) thats just my point of view....
zguitar71 Posted May 4 Author Posted May 4 On 5/3/2024 at 7:06 AM, Kuz said: I will default to Terry Mcinturff (master luthier and has made guitars for all major artists)…... His point; the wood dictates the essentials of an electric guitar's tone & sustain. Different pickups will change the overall tone/timbre, but it won't enhance the sustain, or the openness, or fix muddy or thin guitars. Pickups can only magnify what the acoustic tone coming from the body's chassis is producing. I have read so many arguments about wood making a difference, the discussions seem to fall apart into chaos and anger. I’m not sure how anyone could argue with Terry Mcinturff though. I also firmly feel wood plays a huge role in the sound of the guitar and feel of the guitar. It is why I love my 150 so much, it is a joy to play plugged in or not. It is a joy to thump the neck with my finger and hear what it sounds like. When the guitar sounds great unplugged or just tapped on with a finger it will definitely sound great with good hardware, electronics and a great amp. They all come together for a killer sound. I play all my guitars unplugged the majority of the time. When I plug them in they all translate the unplugged sound and feel into the amp. I don’t use pedals and all my amps are fender derived so not super high gain and I think that really allows the guitar to express itself. Each one has its own character but they are all LP derived.
JeffB Posted May 5 Posted May 5 I have compared my H150 directly with new and older LPs. It didnt really sound like any of them, and to be honest even the LPs didnt sound the same as each other. My H150 also didnt sound like any of the H150s I compared it to although a lemon burst had a similar vibe about it, same tight clear bottom end. Even with different pickups it still didnt sound like anything Ive compared it to. My stock 1978 Ibanez CN100 or 200(?)( I cant remember) sounded more like some of the R8,9s than my H150. The Ibanez had a bolt on neck :0 . If the H150 sounded like any of the LPs I looked at, I doubt I wouldve bought it. I wouldve kept looking for the sound I was looking for in a LP style guitar. Its not that my H150 doesnt have a LP style guitar sound, most LP style guitars do, it just has a "thunk", a tight, deep, clear bottom end and a clarity right through the mids to the top without getting harsh and fizzy but still giving the right amount of "chank" and "ching". Most LP style guitars Ive tried, H150s included, had a "chalkiness " through the whole range of frequencies that annoys me. I think most people actually look for and desire that chalky sound, so I could be describing it wrong. Thunk, chank, ching and chalkiness... I know what I mean.
yoslate Posted May 7 Posted May 7 From Terry McInturff: "To over-simplify a very deep and misunderstood topic...the reason as to why the innate ( non/electronic) resonant characteristics of the electric guitar are of pivotal importance is this: the characteristics of the unplugged guitar dictate how the strings can/cannot vibrate, and hence how the strings can/cannot interact with the pickup(s). In this way it can be shown that the unplugged resonant "signature" of an electric guitar places true boundaries upon what can/cannot be amplified, no matter what the pickups or other electronics may be. If a certain spectrum of the overtone series is weak or absent, no pickup can "invent" what is missing. The "unplugged personality" of the guitar is therefor of foundational importance. This TCM Marquee semi-hollow body is ready for top carving and then, binding. It is an extremely lightweight body, and will be very reactive to string vibrations in a pre-determined way. It's easy to build an acoustically loud and vibrant guitar that misses the desired tonal target. With a design like this, the resonant character of the neck is especially important...make-or-break important. I can finesse the final available overtone series from here via the neck (within the boundaries of the design and the actual body's character). It's not possible to do with just any example of the neck woods...in this case, H. Mahogany. I cannot grab just any example of that wood and expect to "hit the target". It is...to quote Al Gore..."an inconvenient truth".
bolero Posted May 7 Posted May 7 I prefer Barbra Streisand. We need a "Collectors Choice Barbra Streisand Historic Gibson Les Paul Reissue # Original Diva" model. She must have changed her name from Barbara? Not a Beach Boys fan, obviously.
nuke Posted May 7 Posted May 7 FWIW, I have a 60th Anniversary 1960 Les Paul v2 from the Gibson Custom Shop. It is really a fantastic guitar. V2 means it has a neck that's in-between the '59 profile and the very thin later 1960's neck profile. In fact, it is very much like my H150. My R0 only weighs 8lbs and 2ozs, one piece mahogany body no weird internal weight relief. It does that whole "beefy Telecaster" sound very well and really nails the Led Zep II album tone. I played a bunch of these reissues, 58's, 59's, 60's and different weights ranging from 8lbs 1oz to 9lbs 3oz. This one just immediately had that vibe. So I took it home. My H150 is a 1998, bought used from Buffalo Bros around 2001/2002. It was a dealer order that came factory with SD59s and standard stop bar / tune-o-matic (nashville) bridge. It weighs a bit over 9lbs and had that acoustic resonance. Can feel the string vibration going right to my belly playing it.
Kuz Posted May 7 Posted May 7 16 hours ago, yoslate said: From Terry McInturff: "To over-simplify a very deep and misunderstood topic...the reason as to why the innate ( non/electronic) resonant characteristics of the electric guitar are of pivotal importance is this: the characteristics of the unplugged guitar dictate how the strings can/cannot vibrate, and hence how the strings can/cannot interact with the pickup(s). In this way it can be shown that the unplugged resonant "signature" of an electric guitar places true boundaries upon what can/cannot be amplified, no matter what the pickups or other electronics may be. If a certain spectrum of the overtone series is weak or absent, no pickup can "invent" what is missing. The "unplugged personality" of the guitar is therefor of foundational importance. This TCM Marquee semi-hollow body is ready for top carving and then, binding. It is an extremely lightweight body, and will be very reactive to string vibrations in a pre-determined way. It's easy to build an acoustically loud and vibrant guitar that misses the desired tonal target. With a design like this, the resonant character of the neck is especially important...make-or-break important. I can finesse the final available overtone series from here via the neck (within the boundaries of the design and the actual body's character). It's not possible to do with just any example of the neck woods...in this case, H. Mahogany. I cannot grab just any example of that wood and expect to "hit the target". It is...to quote Al Gore..."an inconvenient truth". Ah... yep, that about says it all.
rwinking Posted May 9 Posted May 9 I have had three Fender Twins in my life and all three were different. They sounded like Fender Twins but all different. It makes me think of speakers like pickups. The speakers will amplify different characteristics of the amp just like the pickups will amplify different characteristics of the guitar. I put the same speakers in a different twin and it sounded different. I put the sme pickups in different guitars and they sound different. But there is a similarity just like a Gibson LP or an H 150. Just keep the Schallers out of the 150s please.
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