98 H150 stopbar stud spacing puzzle....

[nuke]

I've had a 1998 H150 for a bit over 20 years. It was factory equipped with Duncan 59's, and a standard tune-o-matic tailpiece and bridge (Nashville style bridge made in Germany). The tailpiece has no branding on it. 

The puzzle is the stud spacing on the stop bar is the puzzle. I've very, very carefully measured the spacing and it is 83mm not 82mm, not 82.5mm.  The threads are the standard metric threads. 

I compared it to a recently acquired H535, made in 2001, which came with the Schaller roller bridge and top-loader tailpiece. It measures at 82mm stud spacing, same threads. I put a Gotoh aluminum stop bar on it, and fit perfect. 

The reason I had the Gotoh aluminum bar on hand was that I tried to put it on the H150 a few years ago, and it was a very, very tight fit. So I just set it aside and went back to the zinc (Zamak) stop bar it came with. 

Just for grins, I tried the Schaller top-loader from the 2001 H535 on the H150 and same deal, very tight fit. The studs threaded right in, but the top-loader didn't want to slide on all the way, just too tight. 

I just measured a Custom Shop Gibson R0 (1960 re-issue) with "vintage correct" everything on it, including a 1950's spec aluminum stop bar. It's imperial (inch) based, but measures 82.45mm stud spacing. 

So that's kind of puzzling. I'm not sure who made the stopbar on my H150, but I was told it was factory equipment at the time (Buffalo Brothers sold it new originally, and to me as used). I feel confident that is true. The stop bar it came with, fits perfectly. So the spacing seems quite intentional and what Heritage intended to do on that H150. 

I sort of wanted to try an aluminum stop bar, but not sure where to get one that might fit. I suspect a "vintage correct 3.25-inch" might fit it.

Anyone know the history of this, or seen the same? 

[bolero]

You might just file a bit of the Al stop bar?

[rockabilly69]

6 hours ago, bolero said:

You might just file a bit of the Al stop bar?

That's exactly what I was thinking.

[nuke]

Well, that's a possible hack.  I could squeeze it on there, but that's not natural to be that tight.  

But it turns out after some research, that not all stopbars are the same size... Hmm. 

The most common size is 82mm between studs, which was also the same as the Schaller top-loader that Heritage used. 

Schaller today, offers a stopbar tailpiece with 81mm between studs, smaller than most and Imperial (5/16") studs. 

The historic Gibson size is 3.25", or 82.55mm, almost exactly. 

I haven't found any 83mm spaced stop bars, but wouldn't be surprised. 

Was told when I bought this 1998 H150, that it was factory equipped as I got it. And I think that's true. It appears Heritage were sourcing the same zinc stopbars that Gibson used on historic re-issues in the 1990's. I was told it was a dealer order run of H150's, which normally in that time frame, had the Schaller hardware and pickups. But these were built with SD-59 pickups and tune-o-matic bridges (Nashville type) and 3.25" spaced stobbars as mine has. I think maybe they rounded it up to 83mm for some reason. 

Turns out, Faber stop bars are 3.25" between studs (82.55mm) and I have one coming to try out.  I think it will fit just fine. 

Also, it seems there are different thickness of the mounting ears in stopbars as well. 

The Gotoh aluminum bar seems really happy on the 2001 H535, it's shiny as is all the hardware on the H535 as i got it.  I've played the living heck out of my H150 all these years, and it was well played when I bought it used. So all the relic'ing was done the natural way. I ordered an aged nickel Faber bar. 

Learn new stuff all the time. 

 

Gotoh GE101A with drawings:

https://g-gotoh.com/product/ge101a/?lang=en

Schaller stop bar:

https://schaller.info/en/stop-tailpiece/1205 

Faber TP-59:

https://faberusa.com/product/3010-2-aged-nickel-tp-59-tailpiece/

TonePros T1ZA:

https://tonepros.com/product/t1za/

 

 

[mars_hall]

I've installed a new stopbar (TP-6 fine tuners) on several Heritage guitars from the period and ran into the tight spacing. 

The solution for me was buying studs out there that were used on/sold for the Les Paul Custom (LPC), which have a slight dimensional difference from those used for the standard.   I would actually buy the stopbar, which came as an assembly, to get the LPC studs and toss the bar itself.

As I recall, and this is 15 years out, they were Imperial so someone may have swapped bushings when the original bar was put on your guitar.  Heritage would do a lot of special orders at that time.

I don't know if this is what you are running into, but it's food for thought and worked to solve my problem.

[TalismanRich]

It's not unusual that a series of customized guitars would be built back then.  My H535 doesn't have the standard Schaller bridge and tailpiece or bridge.  It's a Nashville style.  I don't know who spec'd it, but it's factory stock.  

Folks like Jay Wolfe and Ed Roman bought enough guitars at a time to spec special builds.   I know that the Ed Roman Class of 59 and Blues Deluxe guitars came with a stoptail and Tone Pros bridge.    If they didn't want the Schaller hardware or pickups, it would be a simple thing to tell the factory to build a few dozen with XYZ hardware. 

[nuke]

Yeah, I bought this from Buffalo Brothers, who were a big Heritage dealer back then. They told me they sold it new and it was a special run they ordered n that configuration, and took it back in trade from their original customer. 
 

You never know about the veracity of such statements, but it all looks legit. The stud spacing confirms to me that it never had the usual Schaller roller bridge/top-loader hardware on it. 
 

The studs are metric thread. 

[hopkinwfg]

I have a tailpiece stud well question here too if the moderator here dont mind me interrupting... 

Will a stud well ever get slanted during an installation ? Be it hammering in or using a drill press... i have thought it over ie: even if you may hammer tap in and perhaps accidentially placing the stud well slanted but during the process of hammering it in, wont the 30mm deep stud well hole  auto correct the seating of the stud well to be straight while you tap in the the stud well? 

Edited May 23 by hopkinwfg

[nuke]

The Faber TP-59 slips right on and is spaced at 82.55 mm. 
 

The zinc stop bar was 78 grams, the Faber 28 grams, a net reduction of 50 grams or 1-3/4 oz.