Heritage Ascent Collection

[DetroitBlues]

While it was reported that Bandlab bought the rights to Manny’s music earlier this month, most didn’t realize this opened the floodgates for Heritage retail.

Now Bandlab has the means for distribution in the United States, the Heritage Ascent Lineup is here.

The first model so far released is the H137.  This is not the typical construction nor is it made in the Kalamazoo.

The model features a bolt-on maple neck construction, Okoume body, laurel fingerboard? 24 3/4" scale length, 12" fingerboard radius, and medium jumbo frets. Wrap around tailpiece and available in either Humbuckers or soapbar P90’s.

Three color options black, sunburst, TV yellow.

Its more like a H120 from the 1980’s, but its real and $175.

Its hard to find them on the Bandlab app, but it’s there.

On the app, check for “deals”, click on Mannys music and you’ll find them.  I think they are made in the same place as PRS SE models, but not 100%

Edited June 21 by DetroitBlues

[davesultra]

Epitage?

Heriphone?

Heritage SE?

[Gitfiddler]

While I'm not interested in purchasing an off-shore, bargain basement Heritage, these low-priced imports will help spread the Heritage name to a much wider audience. 

 

[nuke]

Actually, I think it just runs down the brand. 

Nothing wrong with buying a budget guitar made overseas. But some things should be true to the name, and I can't think of a brand that actually means true, than "The Heritage",. 

 

 

[davesultra]

17 minutes ago, Gitfiddler said:

While I'm not interested in purchasing an off-shore, bargain basement Heritage, these low-priced imports will help spread the Heritage name to a much wider audience. 

 

It may, but it also may just fan the flames of “HHH” (Heritage Headstock Hatred) that exists around the other forums!

Edited June 21 by davesultra

[skydog52]

I took a chance on one just out of curiosity. Not bad. Even has a belly cut.

Obviously cheap hardware but I have to say it sounds pretty good. Set up was good. Intonation good.

We'll see how long the parts hold up.

Edited June 21 by skydog52

[skydog52]

It came from Kalamazoo so they might have done some set up on it.

[TalismanRich]

The PRS SE line hasn't diminished the brand,  nor has G&L's Tribute line (they are actually pretty good).   Ibanez has the G10 line, Jackson had the Dinky line,  Fender has Squire.    These aren't guitars that an intermediate or pro level player will be buying.    However, for someone starting out,  it could be  a great starter guitar.   

I'll bet it beats the crap out of the Silvertone I started with, or the Kent/Guyatone Videocaster that replaced it. 

 

[golferwave]

Interesting. Thanks for posting the info!

[brentrocks]

Not a bad looking guitar

[High Flying Bird]

14 hours ago, nuke said:

Actually, I think it just runs down the brand. 

Nothing wrong with buying a budget guitar made overseas. But some things should be true to the name, and I can't think of a brand that actually means true, than "The Heritage."

Bingo!  What drew me to Heritage was the old school mindset of making great American products.  At the 2016 PSP I told MM that the brand was dead.  I felt that the new owners were blowing smoke up our asses.  Now we are getting cheap guitars being built over seas.  Here is your proof.  Now when I tell people I own Heritage guitars I will have to explain that mine were made by the original people of Kalamazoo.  This cheapens the brand, it cheapens the name and it cheapens, "The Heritage."  

[MartyGrass]

3 hours ago, High Flying Bird said:

Bingo!  What drew me to Heritage was the old school mindset of making great American products.  At the 2016 PSP I told MM that the brand was dead.  I felt that the new owners were blowing smoke up our asses.  Now we are getting cheap guitars being built over seas.  Here is your proof.  Now when I tell people I own Heritage guitars I will have to explain that mine were made by the original people of Kalamazoo.  This cheapens the brand, it cheapens the name and it cheapens, "The Heritage."  

I don't think there would be a HOC if Heritage began the way they are now.  They started with a group of skilled artisans flipping of the establishment and hand building in the day when machines were replacing humans and the American worker was devalued.  It was easy to rally around them.  And the Heritage owners were interesting characters with personality.  You could order a guitar with a certain neck carve, different harware, and lots of finishes at a pretty reasonable price.  They definitely were the underdogs.

Now, they are more precise in their builds, more parsimonius in their offerings, and less personal.  There is good with their progress and efficiencies, but they are no longer the underdogs fighting the system and making a variety of customizations at a low price.  I recall that buyers sometimes were there when Marv carved necks.  He would hand the neck of for inspection and the buyer may say something like make it a little flatter.

I am a Heritage fan, but it's more corporate.  There's no getting around it.  I know there's a Gibson forum, but it's about the instruments, not the builders and the facility.

I have a friend who designs Heritages.  He's a great luthier and very smart.  Heritage is lucky to have him.

What I'll miss are things like Heritage closing for deer season opening day, dropping by and walking through the factory, and the little soap operas that somehow escape the plant.  All the quirkiness and dramas that gave Heritage flavor will eventually be smoothed out.

 

 

[Kuz]

6 hours ago, MartyGrass said:

I don't think there would be a HOC if Heritage began the way they are now.  They started with a group of skilled artisans flipping of the establishment and hand building in the day when machines were replacing humans and the American worker was devalued.  It was easy to rally around them.  And the Heritage owners were interesting characters with personality.  You could order a guitar with a certain neck carve, different harware, and lots of finishes at a pretty reasonable price.  They definitely were the underdogs.

Now, they are more precise in their builds, more parsimonius in their offerings, and less personal.  There is good with their progress and efficiencies, but they are no longer the underdogs fighting the system and making a variety of customizations at a low price.  I recall that buyers sometimes were there when Marv carved necks.  He would hand the neck of for inspection and the buyer may say something like make it a little flatter.

I am a Heritage fan, but it's more corporate.  There's no getting around it.  I know there's a Gibson forum, but it's about the instruments, not the builders and the facility.

I have a friend who designs Heritages.  He's a great luthier and very smart.  Heritage is lucky to have him.

What I'll miss are things like Heritage closing for deer season opening day, dropping by and walking through the factory, and the little soap operas that somehow escape the plant.  All the quirkiness and dramas that gave Heritage flavor will eventually be smoothed out.

 

 

Boom, there it is!!! Well, stated Mark... actually, perfectly stated.

[nuke]

23 hours ago, skydog52 said:

It came from Kalamazoo so they might have done some set up on it.

 

Absolute crap electronics.  Even for imported instruments. 

Total garbage. 

 

You will find better quality in MIM Fender, PRS-SE, Epiphone and many others.  

Money better spent on a Harley Benton. 

Edited June 22 by nuke

[davesultra]

6 minutes ago, nuke said:

 

Absolute crap electronics.  Even for imported instruments. 

Total garbage. 

I concur.

[nuke]

The first place you'll find penny-pinching is in the electronics.  That will level-set for you the rest of the build quality. 

Everything in that photo was bottom of the line, even in China. 

One of the biggest cost adders in guitars is wood.

And yes, China and Indonesian manufacturers can buy wood from all the same places American companies can, even from the USA. 

Letting wood sit and cure and stabilize for long periods of time, ties up lots of money, for a long time, which greatly increases the cost of the wood. You either pay interest on that inventory, or you have opportunity cost. But aging wood under temperature and humidity controls for a long time (months or years), increases its quality and stability, which in turn produces better instruments. 

If you're churning out bottom dollar guitars, you're darn sure not going to let wood sit any longer than the absolute minimum to get it to the sawmill. 

I've been to the Martin factory, most of the videos of the factory tours gloss over the wood warehouse and the rough-sawing operation. They have an enormous amount of valuable wood, carefully stacked and stored, in a huge, temperature and humidity controlled warehouse. The raw wood ages for a long time before it is sawn and made into instruments. That's an enormous pile of money, just sitting there. 

Most cheaper guitars are not only made of less expensive species and lower grades of wood, the lumber hasn't aged for long. 

CNC machines today can churn out identical copies of stuff at mass scale, and there's lots of those in China. But wood is not like metal or plastic, it is organic and it moves with age, temperature and humidity. It might have been perfectly shaped out of the CNC line, but will it be by the time it gets built? 

You'll also never see nitro finishes on cheap guitars, because that too, takes time. It can take weeks to complete a nitro finish, where as poly can be done in as little as a few hours. 

The electronics are tip of the iceberg indicators of what you have. 

[davesultra]

39 minutes ago, nuke said:

The first place you'll find penny-pinching is in the electronics.  That will level-set for you the rest of the build quality. 

Everything in that photo was bottom of the line, even in China. 

One of the biggest cost adders in guitars is wood.

And yes, China and Indonesian manufacturers can buy wood from all the same places American companies can, even from the USA. 

Letting wood sit and cure and stabilize for long periods of time, ties up lots of money, for a long time, which greatly increases the cost of the wood. You either pay interest on that inventory, or you have opportunity cost. But aging wood under temperature and humidity controls for a long time (months or years), increases its quality and stability, which in turn produces better instruments. 

If you're churning out bottom dollar guitars, you're darn sure not going to let wood sit any longer than the absolute minimum to get it to the sawmill. 

I've been to the Martin factory, most of the videos of the factory tours gloss over the wood warehouse and the rough-sawing operation. They have an enormous amount of valuable wood, carefully stacked and stored, in a huge, temperature and humidity controlled warehouse. The raw wood ages for a long time before it is sawn and made into instruments. That's an enormous pile of money, just sitting there. 

Most cheaper guitars are not only made of less expensive species and lower grades of wood, the lumber hasn't aged for long. 

CNC machines today can churn out identical copies of stuff at mass scale, and there's lots of those in China. But wood is not like metal or plastic, it is organic and it moves with age, temperature and humidity. It might have been perfectly shaped out of the CNC line, but will it be by the time it gets built? 

You'll also never see nitro finishes on cheap guitars, because that too, takes time. It can take weeks to complete a nitro finish, where as poly can be done in as little as a few hours. 

The electronics are tip of the iceberg indicators of what you have. 

IMO- Those budget Heritage guitars look like junk. If you’re going to make a budget/import line of guitars, do it like PRS does. Sad to see Heritage risking cheapening the brand. But then again, it’s not 2015 anymore.

Edited June 22 by davesultra

[skydog52]

Well, this struck a chord. Pun intended.

Anyone that knows me, knows there is not a bigger supporter of Heritage Guitar.

I've owned many Heritage Guitars through the years. I still own more than I want to admit. 90% of them made by the original owners. 

Love the story and the fact that they are Made in Michigan USA. Raise a glass to Marv, Jim, JP and Bill. I'll be telling

stories of them until they plant me.

At $175 I bought it out of pure curiosity.  If things go south on it, I have a big fire pit out back.

Heritage has never had an entry level model, maybe that's what they're after?

[nuke]

I think they could have done better than rock-bottom. 

The Eastman SB55/v is made in China but it is a phenomenally good iteration of the Les Paul Jr.  It has top quality hardware (Faber) and electronics (Lollar), as well as a light weight Okoume body and a nice hard case.  $1359 brand new, maybe even a bit less if you shop around.  Nothing about it is low quality. Every bit of it is good quality parts, and they play darn nice too. 

 

 

[kbp810]

Not that my opinion matters; but wish they would have at least put “Heritage Ascent” on the headstock, or something more than just an extra trc screw to differentiate it. 

They could have launched a cheaper variant of the brand, without cheapening the brand. 

[y2kc]

I am very happy that I lived during a time that allowed me to get to know and work with the original Heritage crew.

These imported guitars are most likely o.k. but we are now looking at very distant cousins of the real thing. 

Did Bandlab ever build the

travel destination guitar themed campus they had planned? 

Curious minds want to know,

y2kc

[pressure]

22 hours ago, MartyGrass said:

I recall that buyers sometimes were there when Marv carved necks.  He would hand the neck of for inspection and the buyer may say something like make it a little flatter.

I was one of those people. One morning Marv called me and asked if I would like to try the neck on the first Millie they were building for me (at the time I thought it would be the only Millie they would build for me, ha).  I live 200 miles from the Heritage factory and I'm not sure Marv knew that. Sooo I finished breakfast and off I went. What a thrill to talk with Marv about the carve of the neck!

[111518]

Quoted from nuke's post: "CNC machines today can churn out identical copies of stuff at mass scale, and there's lots of those in China. But wood is not like metal or plastic, it is organic and it moves with age, temperature and humidity. It might have been perfectly shaped out of the CNC line, but will it be by the time it gets built?" (Sorry, thought this would appear as a quote!)

The reality that a guitar can be built in China, of woods from around the world, transported to the US and sold --(by some likely complex) calculation at a profit or at someone's advantage-- says a lot not only about advances in the technology of production and transportation but also about the impact of globalization.  

There's an unique and very interesting recent book, The Guitar: Tracing the Grain back to the Tree, by Chris Gibson and Andrew Warren (2021). (They visited Heritage).  The focus is exactly the wood issue that Nuke emphasizes, and not only the  impact on the quality of guitars, but also on the long-term sustainability of the wood that guitars are made of.  They show the enormous difference in outlook between those wood buyers who increasingly take a long and responsible view of sustainability, and others who play by a completely different rule book and exploit corruption and ignore regulation to grab and use whatever wood they can, mostly from developing nations where responsible harvesting and marketing of wood might really contribute to people's quality of life, but usually doesn't.  (I have a lot of respect for Taylor's ebony project, which tries to make a difference in this international trade.)  The book also makes the point that this is not simply "China," the Eastman factory they visited was very much in function and ethos like American and Japanese guitar factories once were. 

Not being self righteous.  For example, I wanted a solidbody electric mandolin so I could practice with headphones and make very little noise, but, have no interest in ever performing with a solid body mandolin. I found one online, and available reviews said the model had remarkably good fit and finish and fret work for the price (and crappy electronics).  Fit the ticket, and I bought it --$179.  Might have come from the same factory as this "The Heritage."  (...and, I'd read the book, so, had reason to know why it could be so cheap, but, great deal, so I didn't let that stop me.)

As Pogo said ... "we have met the enemy, and he is us."

I've never made it to the factory in K'zoo, but I remember calling up and having an extended conversation about the cool, and not so cool, features of Gibson guitars in the course of pricing out custom features on some guitars I was thinking of ordering for myself and at a moment when I thought I had convinced a friend to become a dealer. I think that's when I learned the term "cupid's bow."   That was maybe 25-30 years ago ... and a different world.

Edited June 23 by 111518
wanted to attribute quote and correct spelling

[Kuz]

Quite frankly, I am astonished that ANYONE or ANY COMPANY could make money on a guitar that only costs $175.

Honestly, $175 is less than the cost of ANY ONE pickup I have in my guitars.  

I think they missed the boat (no pun intended), they should have priced it at $775.  How can anyone expect to get a guitar that plays OK, kind of stays in tune, and maybe sounds acceptable for $175?

But, I have been wrong before.....

[nuke]

For grins and experiments, I bought a set of FEOR humbuckers. Including shipping and California sales tax, they were under $15. They shipped straight from China, in less than a week. They have alnico-V magnets, 4-conductor cables, uncovered coils, short-leg type, (mounts in almost anything) and come with screws and springs. That's about $7 each, for humbuckers with hardware, and shipping. 

Honestly, there's nothing wrong with them. Not the best ones I've ever heard, but they're made more or less like any other garden-variety humbucker out there. 

How can they be so cheap? I have no idea. I'd pay more than that for the spool of wire and magnets, much less everything else.

Getting back to the guitars, wood, and so on. Yup, China is absolutely capable of building great stuff. Many of the Eastman instruments are quite good. I have an Eastman mandolin, about $700 for an A-style with a case. That's pretty cheap for a perfectly well-functioning mandolin with no particular shortcomings. 

Go look at Thomann's website and price the Harley Benton. A full-on, set neck, carve-top LP style guitar is $115 (exclusive of shipping). No case nor bag, but heck, that's very cheap.