Lightweight drop-in Rotomatic replacement tuner

[nuke]

I've been on a quest to reduce the weight of my 1998 Heritage H150 electric (Les Paul style) by reducing the hardware weight. The stock, heavy zinc stop bar and Nashville tune-o-matic have been replaced by locking Faber aluminum stop bar and ABR-1 style bridge. That's a considerable weight reduction already. 

That left the tuners. Grover Rotomatics are quite heavy, surprisingly so. 

Gotoh makes a machine head that is a 1-to-1 footprint match with Grover Rotomatics. Exact hole and screw position. The basic model number is SG301. They are very high quality, sealed, smooth turning and have 18:1 gear ratio. The tuners are available in wide variety of options, colors, button types, post heights, locking and non-locking versions. 

Of interest is Gotoh SG301-AB20-C-L3/R3.  "-AB20" is an *aluminum*, chrome plated, Rotomatic large style button.  The Goto tuners weigh 29.6 grams each. 

That's versus Rotomatics at 43 grams each. 

Each SG301 with the aluminum button is 13.4 grams lighter than the Grover Rotomatic. This shaves 80 grams, 2.84 ounces, off the headstock of the guitar. The look of the guitar is maintained, no holes drilled or altered at all. 

The tuner change and the Faber hardware got me under the 9-pound mark. I weighed in at 8lbs, 15-ounces, ready to play. It also has good balance on the strap. 

For comparison, I weighed a plastic, "keystone vintage style" tuner at 26.6 grams. That would have shaved another 18 grams off the guitar, but the mounting screw pattern is not identical, would have required some drilling and left evidence of a tuner change. Not worth the extra half ounce. 

I ordered the tuners from JAParts from Canada. Had them in stock and took about a week to arrive in the US. 

 

[PunkKitty]

It took me a bit of digging, but I did a weight relief experiment on my H-150. https://www.heritageownersclub.com/forums/topic/35830-the-great-heritage-h-150-weight-relief-experiment/

 

[TalismanRich]

For me,  the one guitar that I think this might be useful on would be my H-157.   That guitar is 9 1/2 lbs, so on the heavy side.  But any change would need to be gold/locking/keystone button replacements.    I really like the way the Grover Keystone tuners look on my H535.  

I don't know if 3oz would make that much difference,  I would probably get more reduction swapping  out the Schaller bridge and tailpiece for lighter parts.  

[nuke]

Yeah, mine was in the lower-9lb range, close enough that I thought I might be able to get it under the mark. It was a factory equipped tune-o-matic and factory SD59 pickups, from 1998. 

I have a Gibson Custom 1960 Les Paul 'burst re-issue, and it is crazy light, 8lbs 1oz, one-piece mahagony, not relieved. Really awesome guitar. 

I realized that it could probably land the H150 in the high-8lbs range just by changing the hardware. I knew the zinc stop-bar and the tuners were both heavy. 

That sort of turned into a bit of a parts hunt. My thinking was plastic keystone tuners, like the Grover 135 and an aluminum stop bar. But they're not drop-in. And then I found the stop bar was a little wider than typical stop bars. 

That's when I stumbled onto the 1960-reissue and kind of set aside the project. 

Once I found that the Faber stop-bar fit the H150 perfectly a few weeks ago, I decided to hunt the catalogs and realized the Gotoh SG301 were perfect fit for rotomatics, and the option of a lightweight aluminum knobs, I figured game on. They're not quite as light as the stamped, "Deluxe vintage style" tuners, but they're pretty close. 

I might move the SG301 with the aluminum knobs to my H535, where the Rotomatics are very stiff, and put the "keystone" knob tuners on the H150, since it is kinda likes vintagey. 

But I kind of want locking tuners on the H535...

Which got the aluminum stop bar that didn't fit the H150, and a locking ABR style with nylon saddles.

 

Brought to you by the department of can't leave well enough alone.  🤣

 

 

[TalismanRich]

This is what the locking Grovers look like on my 535.   I like the keystones more than the kidney beans.   They are the same weight as the originals,  9.6 oz for the set.

[nuke]

Nice.

 

The Gotoh SG301 are available with those knobs as well, and really, all kinds of options to figure out, locking, locking with a knob, height adjustable posts, adjustable posts with string lock. 

Here's the Gotoh product page. 

https://g-gotoh.com/product/sg301/?lang=en 

The Gotoh locking tuners are pretty much the same weight as the regular Gotoh tuners, but a good bit lighter than the Rotomatics. 

Edited July 14 by nuke

[nethanpaul86]

Replacing the Grover Rotomatic tuners with Gotoh SG301 tuners with aluminum buttons shaved off the most weight, bringing the guitar down to a comfortable 8lbs, 15oz. These tuners are a perfect fit for the Grover mounting holes and maintain the original look of the instrument.

[High Flying Bird]

On 7/13/2024 at 8:35 PM, TalismanRich said:

I don't know if 3oz would make that much difference...

Rich, if you want to give away 3 ounces I will take it. 

[TalismanRich]

I'll make you a deal.  Meet me in K'zoo on the 1st, and I'll share MORE than 3oz with you!

 

 

Edited July 16 by TalismanRich

[nuke]

The zinc stop bar weighs 78 grams, the Faber weighs 28, so between the stop bar and the tuners, reduced the net weight of the guitar by 130 grams. The Nashville to Faber ABR change, was worth about 5 grams of reduction. So reduced by 135 grams total. 

So that's about 4.76 ounces, or just a bit more than a quarter pound reduction over all. So from the low 9lbs and into the upper 8lbs range. (barely). But it definitely is enough to feel in the hand and on the strap.  It looks nice and plays and sounds nice. Pretty much a win over all. 

 

 

[ElNumero]

On 7/13/2024 at 9:35 PM, TalismanRich said:

For me,  the one guitar that I think this might be useful on would be my H-157.   That guitar is 9 1/2 lbs, so on the heavy side.  But any change would need to be gold/locking/keystone button replacements.    I really like the way the Grover Keystone tuners look on my H535.  

I don't know if 3oz would make that much difference,  I would probably get more reduction swapping  out the Schaller bridge and tailpiece for lighter parts.  

You consider 9 1/2 pounds a heavy guitar? Have you ever played Les Paul that was almost 11 pounds? Oh wait I forgot you’re kind of old. 😁

Edited July 25 by ElNumero

[High Flying Bird]

19 hours ago, ElNumero said:

You consider 9 1/2 pounds a heavy guitar? Have you ever played Les Paul that was almost 11 pounds? Oh wait I forgot you’re kind of old. 😁

My first H-150 was so heavy I called it the Piano.  Even unplugged notes would ring for days.  I sold it because it was making me old.

[nuke]

I once came across an H140 that was well over 11 pounds. I couldn’t believe it, but the scale didn’t lie. 
 

I can’t imagine how it could weigh that much, being a thinner, slimmed down Les Paul. 
 

I’m old enough now that anything with a strap weight over 9lbs is not comfortable and over 10 is a no go. 

[TalismanRich]

Wow,  an 11 lb H140!!??   Mine is a puny 8.06 lbs.