Interested in a buying my first Heritage and have a few questions.

[bolero]

So pretty close to TalismanRich's. Nearly identical, really. And then measurement % error. I'm not at sea level, not sure about parallax & I didnt take into account the observer effect.

 

[MichaelThorn]

38 minutes ago, JA2475 said:

Wow, that is pretty worrying. Giving that I'm looking at a 2013. That is pretty close to the end of the old regime. For the fret leveling and pleking, I guess by now it would have already been done. The "ski slope", well, that is bad.

When did they stop making the almond burst? It doesn't seem to be available in the new ones. And used 2020s I mainly see red and sunburst.

Yeah, I would love a Pelham blue also.

[DetroitBlues]

As someone on here that has a long history of being particular about beefy necks, in general you will have a hard time finding older models with thick necksThey do exist but more often than not, they are not thick.  Most of the 80’s have thin, flat D shape necks which coincides with the 80’s superfast, super slim neck phase when shredding became the goal of many new guitarists.  In the 90’s, Heritages became more rounded yet thin.  Then slightly thicker in the 2000’s.  In the past 15 years, they became increasingly thicker.  Most of the Heritages since 2016 are chunky necks, the kind I like.  My last purchase was a ‘23 H150 Standard and it has that big hefty neck I wished all my previous guitars had.  
 

In 2016, ownership changed and so did a lot of things at Heritage.  Constant debate amongst us of what is better, pre or post Plaza Corp made Heritages.  Quality, pricing, model availability all changed.  I won’t drag you into the weeds in that one, but production methods changed as did the tooling along with a new generation of guitar manufacturing employees.  

Edited yesterday at 01:01 PM by DetroitBlues

[TalismanRich]

I will say that for the past 6 years,  they have been running the plek machine on all their guitars.    That should make a difference in setup.   It might also sway your choice if you have any apprehension about the setup.   That said,  I haven't had any issues with setup on any of mine.   They are all from the original group.

Schaller pickups were the norm until they stopped producing pickups.   Then Heritage moved to SD.   SD is the still the pickup in the standard line, but Custom Core instruments have pickups wound internally.    We got to see the pickup winding room during last year's tour.  

Of course, in the old days, they would put in whatever pickup you wanted.   It was much more a custom shop than a factory like Gibson or Fender's production lines.

Edited yesterday at 03:40 PM by TalismanRich

[29er]

Thanks for the good info you all have shared. I just joined this group because after selling a couple of 535's in the late 90's I have not owned a Heritage. I am now casually looking for a used 530. The info about leadership changes, neck profiles & pickup changes are good to know. I've fallen in love with fully hollow body guitars and the 530 seems like a good choice for my clean toned blues style. 

[nuke]

The older Heritage guitars can be stunningly great instruments. You just got to play them and see, and do a thorough checkout, like any used instrument. Heritage were a lot like Gibson Kalamazoo. Sometimes they were insanely great - and every now and then, just insane. 

I was quoted earlier in the thread. I have owned two Heritage guitars, both bought used. A 1998 H150, that I bought just over 20 years ago. The second is a 2001 H535 that I bought about a year ago.  

The necks on both are very similar, and nearly identical to my Gibson Custom Shop 60th anniversary 1960-v2 Les Paul 'burst.  The "v2 neck" was a real thing, transitional between the fairly chunky '59 neck, and the razor-thin neck of the 1960-v3 and later vintage Gibsons. It is a very comfortable neck. 

The H535 is natural blonde and I happened to see it hanging at a shop. It was *pristine* with all the original Schaller hardware and the HRW pickup option. I played it and it instantly had "the sound" of a great ES335/H535, acoustically and through the pickups. 

The story diverges a bit here. My 1998 H150 has been an incredibly great playing guitar.  The 2001 H535, had a not very well done fretboard/fretwork. It was all original, with the nibs in place. The fretboard itself was simply not properly leveled, which would be a factory issue.  That kinda explains it being so pristine after 20+ years, it just wasn't playing that great. Some heroic work went into leveling the frets, it was OK-ish when I got it. But eventually, I yanked all the frets off, properly leveled the rosewood, and refretted with slightly larger Dunlop 6100 wire.  I also put on a CNC machined nylon nut, just like Gibson used back in the 50's and 60's. (it's better than bone, trust me!)

It now plays absolutely incredibly well. I put Faber locking bridge and tail, and the Faber bushings in it. The bushings made a surprising tone improvement. It was good before, it just had even more of that great semi-hollow sound. I capped it off with the lightweight Gotoh tuners that are perfect fit for the Grover Rotomatics. The Rotos were in great cosmetic shape, still quite shiny, but the lubricant inside had gotten stiff. The Gotohs are both light, smooth and just wonderful. 

I've played it A/B with a Collings I35LC with ThroBak pickups (a very, very nice $8000 semi-hollow).  The I35LC is *amazing*. But the now properly fretted H535 gives up nothing to it. No regrets. My H535 is a lifetime keeper. 

 

[Gitfiddler]

3 hours ago, 29er said:

Thanks for the good info you all have shared. I just joined this group because after selling a couple of 535's in the late 90's I have not owned a Heritage. I am now casually looking for a used 530. The info about leadership changes, neck profiles & pickup changes are good to know. I've fallen in love with fully hollow body guitars and the 530 seems like a good choice for my clean toned blues style. 

New and used H530's are available from a variety of sellers, and are a great hollow body option.  Another option is the much more rare H525.  It's tone is a bit thicker due to its 2 1/4""body depth.  I believe there is one currently for sale by an HOC member on this board as well as on Reverb.

[MartyGrass]

The first two guitars I got, back in my teens, were a Firebird V and then a ES-345.  It is likely the Firebird had a fat neck and the 345 a thin one, based on specs I can see these days.  I never noticed back then.  At 18, I got a late 1920's L-5.  That neck was very fat.  I noticed that but adjusted.

Nowadays I like a medium thin neck best but still have some "59" carved necks on several instruments which I can play equally poorly!

The L-5 I got was from a studio musician who played for Chess Records for years.  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chess_Records  This guy good easily go from that fat neck to my much thinner Howard Roberts without missing a beat- literally.

It can be difficult to predict how a neck will feel.  There are some with small hands or arthritis who may be handicapped with a fat neck.  But they couldn't be as limited as this guy, who managed to do quite well.  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aZ308aOOX04

I understand that guitars mean different things to different people.  Many are very finicky, and I get that.  Yet I reflect on working with traveling musicians, going state to state.  Many, probably most, pianists did not bring their own pianos.  Those who did said it was for the tone, not the feel of the keyboard.  I played a few woodwinds a decade.  I don't recall anyone complaining about the "action".

Quite a few virtuoso guitarists can switch from a 24 3/4th" scale to a 25.5", some in the same show.  Jimmy Page went back and forth between a double neck and a single neck guitar in the same shows.

Most of us spend a good amount of time driving.  I'll bet very few swapped out their driver's seats because they were too narrow, fat, stiff or soft.  Most things in life we are okay with even if they are not ideal because they simply are a means to an end and they work.  It seems to me that often some find that the precise comfort of the guitar is an end or at least one of the ends.

I know that we are fussy about guitars.  We have hundreds of different types of picks, strings, pickups, amps, pedals, and so much more.  There is a risk that the pursuit of perfection spoils the journey.

I don't want to be snide to the effetes, but here's some practical advice.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E0x978oZa3Y&t=39s

 

 

[Kuz]

I will preference this buy saying that I have owned over 20 Heritage guitars and that is more than most on this forum.   

I only bought one Heritage that was made after 2017 (my 2022 150 Custom Core), the rest were bought before 2017 and earlier.   You are getting a lot of good advice here and most is accurate, especially about the specs of older vs new Heritage guitars.  BUT if you excluding Heritage guitars made before 2017 based on internet folklore that the new guitar are ALWAY ALL better, than that is a huge mistake.  Most internet post on other sites are from those who haven't played older ones or haven't played newer ones to compare.   My 2022 Heritage 150 Custom Core had some issues with the tuneamatic posts and stoptail studs drilled at about a 20% off angle from straight perpendicular and the bottom strap button hole drilled about a half inch off center seam.  The issues were corrected (except for the bottom strap button placement) with Faber locking hardware.  The guitar plays and sound amazing. 

BUT my point is, that I never had any issues even close to those with the handmade older Heritages Pre-2017.   Obviously like any guitar company there will be the occasional rare, lemon produced.   My older Heritages were as close to mint-perfect from the factory as any other guitars produced from other companies.  The ONLY issue that occasional happened back in the day from the Heritage factory was less than perfect cut nuts ( Heritage intentionally cut the nut high so you could lower it yourself if you wanted to) and even less often was the frets might need buffed.  I NEVER had either of these issues on any of my pre-2017 Heritages, but the luthier cost to have these issues fixed is $50-100 and now you have a handmade guitar costing thousands of dollars less than what other companies would have charged.

My point is, ANY guitar from ANY company should be judged on a guitar by guitar bases.  To dismiss all Heritage guitars made by the the original owners (pre-2017) would be a huge mistake and any misinformation claimed that the newer guitars are ALWAYS better.... well,  ask them how many older Heritages verse new Heritages they have owned.

Good luck with your purchase!!!

[LK155]

Well, having only owned 5 pre-2017 Heritage guitars, my thoughts are likely only worth about 25% of what Kuz has said.  Mine were built in 1996, 2001, 2005, 2006, and 2008.

None of my 5 had any significant issues whatsoever.  Yes, the oldest one (1996 H535) has a somewhat slimmer neck than the others, but that was how things were done back then.  And so what?  With the arthritis in my left hand, neck scale length is now far more important to me than thickness.  That's why I now have a 24" Ron Kirn Jaguar and my recent Doug Harrison custom build is 24.6".

John's absolutely correct:  listening to dumbass internet 'experts' about Heritage quality from the old days is a waste of your time.

   

[bolero]

5 hours ago, Kuz said:

 

My point is, ANY guitar from ANY company should be judged on a guitar by guitar bases.  To dismiss all Heritage guitars made by the the original owners (pre-2017) would be a huge mistake

This 100%

I've never had issues with any new or used Heritage gtrs I've bought. Like anything handmade, there is some variability so I guess occasionally stuff slips through.

I did get carpal tunnel syndrome & had to stop using thick necks for a while. Glad it's no longer an issue as I like the feel. But still enjoy my thinner necks.

[nuke]

On the older H535, you also get the wooden pickguard, which I just love. 

Yeah, the "internet wisdom" is what it is. Mostly, it is whichever way the strongest voices carry, not perhaps the most astute. 

Kind of like the HRW pickups. Back when they came out and were in production, they were hailed as the best things since sliced bread. In more current era internet lore, they get pooped on.  In reality, they're quite good, I wouldn't change the ones in my H535. Also, the Schaller pickups used by everybody in the late-70's through early-90's, also were very well made and good quality.  Even the Schaller hardware is pretty decent, though I'm just honestly, more accustomed to the conventional stop tail and bridge. 

You'll just have to go play some Heritage guitars. Honestly, I was lusting a Heritage back when I got my hands on the early H140. There was a shop that carried them where I grew up, and man, I wanted that guitar so bad. It was great. I just couldn't afford it. Over the years, I've never failed to try them out any time I saw one hanging on the wall in a shop somewhere. 

I encourage the OP to just go shop for a while and play any H535's he comes across. Most of them will be at least pretty good, some will be fantastic, and a few will have issues. 

[TalismanRich]

Actually,  the HRWs were hailed as great,  then yanked out because they were too "HiFi", or too shrill, too bright,  too muddy, or too dull (take your choice... I've seen all those comments) only to be replaced by some SD or Throbak or Mojo, etc.    Then those muddy, shrill, dull, HiFi pickups get put on Reverb for $500 a set because they're so great.    Same with the Schaller pickups.   People would often yank them and put in SD 59s or Seth Lovers.   Once Heritage started to put in 59s and Seth Lovers, those crappy pickups were yanked out for somebody else's pickup.

The same thing is happening with the 224 Parsons pickups.   People yank them out because it's easy to do, then sell them for big $$$$, extolling the virtues of these great pickups.

And if some random person winds a pickup and puts a Pat Pending sticker on it, it becomes a PAF and is hailed as a wonderful, detailed, vintage sounding pickup with amazing harmonic bloom and sustain for days!   It's amazing what a little sticker does for the sound.

.... or at least for a while.

 

I'm not saying we're all gullible, but yeah,  we can be!