5 Reasons to switch to Modeling Amps - Yes or No?

[DetroitBlues]

I read an article this morning from Guitar World on MSN.

They provided some compelling information arguments stating five reasons why someone should switch (citing touring artists switched, so why not you?)

"While sound quality was once something that held modelers back, it is now a big reason to buy": Five reasons you’re better off with an amp modeler than a tube amp

1. Portable
2. Reliable
3. Price
4. Flexibility
5. Sound Great

Can't get myself to do it.  to me I find modelers to be finicky, prone to fail, and won't last in the long run.

• Tube amps are heavy, so digital modelers win there.  I started using a separate head/cabinet.  But really, I use a cart to move stuff around.  Hardest lift is in/out of the truck.  None of it is that heavy, its not like I'm lifting a 100w 2x12 Fender Twin.
• Reliability is subjective, digital modelers are great now, until the software becomes outdated, until fails, and there is no way to fix it.  Digital modelers are disposable items that do not retain value in the long run.
• Price is also subjective.  To achieve the high-end tube-like sound, you are paying way more than most tube amps.  Sure, there are cheaper alternatives, but they aren't as good.  Plus you still have to get a monitor system, my band asked me to look into going direct. I asked if they are buying me a monitor system so I can hear my guitar?  Going to front of house doesn't help me, if I can't hear anything beyond the vocalists monitor.
• Flexibility.  The right tube amp in combination with the right pedals, you can achieve nearly anything sound you want.  Even rolling back the volume on your guitar to clean up the sound makes a huge difference.
• Sounds great.  Tube amps sound great, modelers can, but you buy a modeler, then have to spend more on a monitor system for it.  

There are pros to modeling of which I won't deny, but I have yet to feel (yes, feel) a modeling amp that feels like a fire breathing tube amp.  There is something about the sound and the feel when you have a 50w/100w head pushing a 2x12 or a 4x12 cabinet.  

[fxdx99]

I've been considering this solely for weight.  A couple friends have recently went w/the blonde DR Tonemaster.  I had one at my house for a bit to a/b to my Allen (kinda DR).  Soundwise, it's impressive.  Works for me.  It's modeler at 23lbs/$1100 compared to DR at 42lbs/$1700(+) - save 19lbs and $600.  At some point, I'll likely get one.  Won't sell my tube amps right away, if ever (not all of them anyway), so it's not really a $ delta for me.  Just weight relief.  Like the option of lower weight at times and a lighter backup amp.  Also considering the Victory V4 paired w/a single 12 neodymium cab.  Few more $, even lighter.

[kennyv4]

Nice comparison.  I'm a tube amp snob.  When I have done solo gigs, I use a Princeton Reverb or Carr Rambler. With a group I use a modeling amp. IMO sound is not as critical when playing with other musicians due to different genre of the music that is played. 

[Gitfiddler]

Excellent analysis.  For me, my first choice will always be a tube amp, with a few pedals.

That said, the closest I'll get to a modeler, is my DV Mark Eric Gales Raw Dawg 250.  Connected to a 2x12 speaker cab, that tiny box can fill a small auditorium with great tone.

[DetroitBlues]

4 hours ago, fxdx99 said:

I've been considering this solely for weight.  A couple friends have recently went w/the blonde DR Tonemaster.  I had one at my house for a bit to a/b to my Allen (kinda DR).  Soundwise, it's impressive.  Works for me.  It's modeler at 23lbs/$1100 compared to DR at 42lbs/$1700(+) - save 19lbs and $600.  At some point, I'll likely get one.  Won't sell my tube amps right away, if ever (not all of them anyway), so it's not really a $ delta for me.  Just weight relief.  Like the option of lower weight at times and a lighter backup amp.  Also considering the Victory V4 paired w/a single 12 neodymium cab.  Few more $, even lighter.

This article was more about the direct to PA style systems.  I actually like the Tone Master series, although I don't know how long they'd last.  Most older tube amps can be serviced.  Can't say the same about a digital modeler like the Tone Master.  When I was in Nashville three years ago, I did a back stage tour of the Grand Ol Opry.  Because it was an early Sunday tour, it was just me and my wife on a tour.  I had noticed every single amp on the stage was a Fender Tone Master Deluxe Reverb.  Now the difference here really is, if an amp goes bad, they could easily get another and not think twice about it.  However, the average guitarist probably couldn't do the same thing....

[fxdx99]

34 minutes ago, DetroitBlues said:

This article was more about the direct to PA style systems.  I actually like the Tone Master series, although I don't know how long they'd last.  Most older tube amps can be serviced.  Can't say the same about a digital modeler like the Tone Master.  When I was in Nashville three years ago, I did a back stage tour of the Grand Ol Opry.  Because it was an early Sunday tour, it was just me and my wife on a tour.  I had noticed every single amp on the stage was a Fender Tone Master Deluxe Reverb.  Now the difference here really is, if an amp goes bad, they could easily get another and not think twice about it.  However, the average guitarist probably couldn't do the same thing....

Interesting that Opry back line has them. Thanks. The tonemaster series has direct to PA like most modelers so would think applicable for this discussion. They just include a speaker should us old school cats wanna use it as a monitor. They’ve run for 4.5 years so far without significant failure rates, but yeh, once fail it’d be replace rather than service (tho with $0 annual maintenance over it’s life).  

[TalismanRich]

THe only way I can see going direct to PA/FOH is if you have in ear monitors, which I don't.   If you've got high dollar, big time PA,  IEM, etc. then it probably can work.   You can have your roadie take care of all the particulars to make sure everything is up to snuff for the show.  U2 does it. 

When I get together at my drummer friend's house,  we use headphones,  no amps.   I tried using my old PodXT but it had some real noise issues.   I grabbed a Strymon Iridium from a local fellow, and it does fine.   It's not the same as having an amp, but it's just for a few guys jamming.

For actually playing on a small stage in front of people,  having an amp is still preferred for me.  

[bolero]

I like playing my tube amps. I like the sound, I like the smell, and I enjoy interacting with them. They're fun to use. They inspire me.

That said, if I were on tour and didn't have the funds to haul & maintain them, a modeller would be a good option.

Otherwise why waste my time trying to replicate something I already have? I have better things to do.

[rwinking]

I started using modelers when I could make them just as loud as my tube amps and annoy everyone else in the band.

RIght now I use both. I have a Quad Cortex, a helix rack and also a Helix HX Stomp XL. I use a line 6 monitor and can get it to sound like a real amp.

When touring, I would use my Helix rack for FX along with a tube amp. The great thing is that if the amp goes down, I have the Helix amp models to use. On smaller gigs I use a tube amp with the Stomp XL for FX and again as a back up.

so:

1) Portable.....yep the modelers fit in really small little cases

2) Reliability......I have had the Line 6 stuff for over 10 years without any problems and do not see them as disposable at all. I think some of the Boss Katana kind of stuff can be seen that way, but the high end stuff is not.

3) price is no comparison as you comapre one amp with the shitload of amps that you get in the Line 6, QC or Fractal, etc. stuff. So I have Orange, Fender, Marshall , Dumble, Hi-Watt, Dr. Z, etc. all in one box that costs a lot less than a boutique amp with the QC and better Helix stuff around $1600-1800. It has been nice to switch from a deluxe or Princeton to a big ass Marshall sound mid song.

4) Flexibility....Yeah, the right tube amp and pedals is pretty cool. But with the better modelers, you have a zillion amps and pedals all built in. I don't think my old ears can tell the difference between an original Klon or Tube Screamer and a modeled one. The Lexicon reverbs are steller and all digital and have been the studio go to for years. I believe that Eric Johnson can tell the differences in this stuff but not me.

5) Sound great for sure. There is something magical about my tube amps but now there is something equally magical about modelers in a different way. The line 6 powercab+ is pretty cooland has all sorts of flexibility. I use mine for acoustic gigs as well as electric. The QC has models of famous mic preamps and lately I have been playing gigs 50/50 acoustic/electric. I can get a killer acoustic soundusing the acoustic speaker model and thne swithc to a Deluxe model witha Creamback all in the same box. 

I will never give up my tubes but I am becoming more and more satisified with the modeled stuff.

[rockabilly69]

I would NEVER use a modeler live in my original rock band. To me, there is nothing like a wound up Fender tweed or Marshall style amp reacting to your playing. And those amp sounds are what inspire me to write the songs for my band. It's the sound of the rock and roll that I love. And, none of the amps that I use live are that heavy, especially with the cart that I keep in my car. The amps I use live are just loud enough to get a decent clean sound that works with the acoustic sound of the drums. 

That said, I have one pedal board for my original solo acoustic shows where I have all the songs programmed, and I use a HX Stomp for all the time delay stuff, and even some dirt, and it works fine. But I run my guitar through an acoustic amp before it goes to the PA.

Edited February 6 by rockabilly69

[Heritage1970]

I've made my living with music as a full time musician for 30+ years now, and I'll be lugging out my tube amps till the very end. I get the convenience factor, but as with most things I've found: when you try cutting corners, something else ends up suffering. In this case, the tone IMO. Just can't beat feeling that wave of sound blowing out of an amplifier. To me, there's no substitute for the real thing.

[Kuz]

I have used both and it is just WAY too hard to do simple editing of presets/patches/simulated pedals when playing live with the direct modeler stuff. 

I like all my analog pedals available on the board where I can see them and just make a simple level or tone adjustment,  by just reaching down and turning the knob on the pedal.   What is essential is a Looper for your pedals (like Boss M8 or Gigrig G3) where you can program an infinite number of presets that can turn on/off multiple different pedals with just one step on the board.   If editing of any the pedals are needed, just reach down and turn the knobs on the physical pedals.   HONESTLY,  the Looper & analog pedals combination is the best of both worlds of modeling & tube amps!

[rwinking]

I have alway hated pedals on the floor as if I need to do a tweak I have to bend over. The great thing about the Helix rack is it is in my rack with a great foot controller on the floor to turn everything on and off. I just turn aroun and tweak whatever I need to tweak With the Quad Cortex I now use a midi foot controller to turn amps or FX on or off and keep the unit at waist level so that I can tweak without bending over for long periods of time until I get the right sound. The QC is pretty cool with it's touch screen. I touch an effect, say my reverb, and then the parameters show on the screen. I then turn a knob and all done,

I always thought this video was pretty cool. It is not about modeled amps but modeled FX where he recreates his dad's analog pedals/

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hjLngpQipEQ&t=3s&loop=0

[rockabilly69]

2 hours ago, rwinking said:

I have alway hated pedals on the floor as if I need to do a tweak I have to bend over. The great thing about the Helix rack is it is in my rack with a great foot controller on the floor to turn everything on and off. I just turn aroun and tweak whatever I need to tweak With the Quad Cortex I now use a midi foot controller to turn amps or FX on or off and keep the unit at waist level so that I can tweak without bending over for long periods of time until I get the right sound. The QC is pretty cool with it's touch screen. I touch an effect, say my reverb, and then the parameters show on the screen. I then turn a knob and all done,

I always thought this video was pretty cool. It is not about modeled amps but modeled FX where he recreates his dad's analog pedals/

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hjLngpQipEQ&t=3s&loop=0

The only time I used to bend down during a performance to adjust fx is with volume knobs, but I've switched to a volume pedal up front. During soundcheck, I set up my pedals for the room. After that, it's just riding the volume pedal. I'm the lead singer of our band so I sure don't want to be bending down to adjust pedals. I can change the rate of the delay by tapping it in, and I only use 2 tempos on my tremolo so I change that between songs.

 

 

 

[bolero]

That "EMS synthi hifli" contraption Happy Gilmore used on Dark Side of the Moon & era live Pink Floyd was ahead of it's time. Multi FX unit up on a stand.

https://soundgas.com/blogs/blog/ems-synthi-hifli

 

( I know, I know...just joking around: I get sick of everyone misspelling David Gilmour's last name )