Mark Gregg Posted March 24, 2009 Posted March 24, 2009 I don’t know if this is ok or not but I’d like to start a comparison of the fine Gibson Custom shop LP’s coming off the line in the last couple of years vs the Heritage 150’s. I have some LP’s and a 150 and would be glad to share my experiences and views on the pros and cons of both, I imagine lots of guys (girls?) have both. I think the new Gibsons are some of the best they’ve ever made so it’s more of a fair comparison than in the past perhaps. I don’t want to get too far into it if this violates any rules so I’ll just introduce myself for now since I’m brand new. I’m Mark Gregg and I own Magus Innovations, the maker of the Ultimate Attenuator. I have a special interest in LP type guitars as Magus is prototyping a PAF that closely resembles original PAF tone and performance so a lot of critical AB’ing are going on concerning the pups and guitars. I own two Heritage guitars and four Gibsons, two of which are the aforementioned ’07 Historic VOS. If this is allowed, I will be posting more shortly.
Thundersteel Posted March 24, 2009 Posted March 24, 2009 Welcome! I've heard some good things about the Ultimate Attenuator. Comparisons are OK, but don't be surprised if we are biased toward Heritage!
Dick Seacup Posted March 24, 2009 Posted March 24, 2009 Welcome to the Club, Mark! Comparisons are OK, but don't be surprised if we are biased toward Heritage! +1...I was going to post something remarkably similar. LOL.
yoslate Posted March 24, 2009 Posted March 24, 2009 So...you have the 150...and some LP type guitars.... >
tulk1 Posted March 24, 2009 Posted March 24, 2009 Mark, Welcome. And post away. As T-Steel has pointed out, you may find us a bit biased towards Heritage. Lot of us here were LP players before becoming Heritage addicts. So, yeah, we'll be biased. But I'd be willing to bet you get a friendlier recption here than if you tried this on .... oh, let's say ... a strictly LP forum. :wink: BTW, why do the main images on your home page link to a page on Adobe? Weird. Do you post Ted's Forums? I could swear I've seen your name on another forum I've visited lately. Hmmmm.
big bob Posted March 24, 2009 Posted March 24, 2009 this is an easy one my friend.. the heritage is far better, and mike Ditka (da coach) would beat god in a golf mach..
golferwave Posted March 24, 2009 Posted March 24, 2009 this is an easy one my friend.. the heritage is far better, and mike Ditka (da coach) would beat god in a golf mach.. DA BEARS!!!
chrisrock Posted March 24, 2009 Posted March 24, 2009 Hi Mark, yes it would be great to hear your comparison. I was also interested into the VOS range but the price is quite high.
JeffB Posted March 24, 2009 Posted March 24, 2009 Great idea. Welcome to the forum. Here's my comparison in the Heritage vs VOS: I bought a Heritage 150. :wink: But in the interest of balance and to show Im open minded I have a confession to make. I bought a Gibson last week. Im not sure why. Its pretty crappy. Cheap I guess.
Thundersteel Posted March 24, 2009 Posted March 24, 2009 Here's my comparison in the Heritage vs VOS: I bought a Heritage 150. :wink: That's what I'm talkin' about!!
les paulverizer Posted March 24, 2009 Posted March 24, 2009 I am not biased, life's too short for that; I go for the best and that will suffice. Again, I think life's too short to do any different. When I bought my H150 I went trough a lot of guitars, PRS's - Hamer's - ......all top stuff, including a truly amazing Gibson Custom Shop '59 Reissue, custom made for a top English session guy (so it had to be good!) that really hit home with me; I nearly bought it off him straight away but he asked for a lot of money (maybe the right price...!) so I took my time. 8) Anyway, to cut medium lenght story short, this H150 came into my Rockin' life straight from the Texas Guitar Show and I wouldn't trade it with anything, not even "that" amazing '59 Reissue. That, I think, says it all.
Spectrum13 Posted March 24, 2009 Posted March 24, 2009 Mark welcome to the HOC! I have owned a G goldtop in 1968 and a G 345 and now have four Heritage and zero Gibbons. If you plan to play it, a new 150 would cost as much as a standard G, but be at least equal to a VOS. Resale on a 150... say $2k new sells for depending on conditions $1200 to $1400. Not all that bad but if you go for custom options you will not recoup the extra cash but have that choice neck shape or upgraded woods. If the new Lp's are some of the best they ever made (1959?) good to know. When I put down my 150, I just can't believe it could play any better or sound any better than it does... even if it was the real deal (1959). Conclusion from biased HOC person, good enough vs as good as it gets.
ThinLizzy Posted March 24, 2009 Posted March 24, 2009 Gibson VOS - Not a '59 Les Paul Heritage H-150 - Not a '59 Les Paul Gibson VOS - $3000-$6000 Heritage H-150 - $2000 Gibson VOS - Made in Nashville Heritage H-150 - Made in Kalamazoo Seems like a no-brainer to me...
tulk1 Posted March 24, 2009 Posted March 24, 2009 I'd just like to offer that I thought my '02LPS+ was a wonderful guitar. Very well made. Great tone across the pickups. And a beautiful Desert Burst. Unfortunately I needed a PA and sold it. The '05 LPS+ I bought to replace it was not a very good guitar at all. Was not balanced across the tonal spectrum; couldn't be set up to play as well as I thought it should; and basically failed to inspire me at all. Sold it shortly after. I'm constantly trying the LPs in our local GC. Have not been inspired at all. I realize these are not VOS guitars. In fact, I'm not totally sure what the VOS series is. I may or may not have played them at GC. But I can say, without any hesitation that my Millie DC NFH, albeit not a solid body guitar, is by far better than the '02 LPS (which I did like), and most certainly better than the the '05LPS.
Gitfiddler Posted March 24, 2009 Posted March 24, 2009 Mark Gregg~ Welcome to the HOC. You've opened a couple of controversial doors, but no worries. You won't get flamed or banned here. While I don't own a late model 'VOS' (Vintage Original Spec) Gibby, I still enjoy playing an '02 R7 Goldtop and '03 R68 Custom. The Custom is very close in feel and playability to my H-150 and 157. The Goldtop is simply one badass, rockin gitfiddle, with a huge neck and tone to match. Each are different and ALL have great tone. Gibson spends a lot of time and money trying to recapture the magic of their early Kalamazoo days by coming up with various reissues, features and models of a bygone era. Then they flood the market with extremely expensive, mass produced instruments that are very similar to what comes out of Parsons Street on a daily basis. I'll leave it to others to debate issues such as tenon length, top carve, binding widths and headstock shapes. To me the main difference is that Heritage still hand makes their instruments, one by one, and uses the best woods on ALL of their guitars and is not trying to 'market' to anyone except for discriminating guitar players. The emphasis is on players, vs collectors. This is only my opinion, but after many years of playing and buying guitars, Heritage is truly hard to beat...VOS or not. Like a lot of folks here, I like a variety of guitars...especially well made gits with a great value...like Heritage! 8) Now please tell us more about your 'paf' pickups?
yoslate Posted March 24, 2009 Posted March 24, 2009 Mark Gregg~ Welcome to the HOC. Gibson spends a lot of time and money trying to recapture the magic of their early Kalamazoo days by coming up with various reissues, features and models of a bygone era. Then they flood the market with extremely expensive, mass produced instruments that are very similar to what comes out of Parsons Street on a daily basis. I'll leave it to others to debate issues such as tenon length, top carve, binding widths and headstock shapes. To me the main difference is that Heritage still hand makes their instruments, one by one, and uses the best woods on ALL of their guitars and is not trying to 'market' to anyone except for discriminating guitar players. The emphasis is on players, vs collectors. Like a lot of folks here, I like a variety of guitars...especially well made gits with a great value...like Heritage! 8) Now please tell us more about your 'paf' pickups? Nail.... Head.... BANG! Karma up +1 'fiddler Welcome, Mark! I didn't mean to be too clever by half in my earlier post on your thread, just addressing the prevailing opinion, that being that we consider the instruments still made in Kalamazoo the Real Thing (and I won't even put that in quotation marks)! You'll have an interested and engaged audience here for your exercise in comparison and contrast, and we'll most probably be unfailingly polite about it, too. But this crowd knows a bunch and won't give an unwarranted inch. Have at it!
Mark Gregg Posted March 24, 2009 Author Posted March 24, 2009 Thanks for the warm welcome everyone. I’d like to give a little background if that’s ok. I am a professional musician by trade and have made a living for the last 20 years playing in cover bands and corporate bands. I’m the musical director for a popular night club in Palm Springs Ca that has live rock 7 nights a week. I’ve been leader of the house band there for the last 12 years and play 4 nights a week there until recently when I’ve had to scale back to 2 or 3 nights due to the UA business. I give you this background because it is on this stage that many final judgements are made for Magus products. I call it my musical Oracle as it gives me the truth compared to shop or studio comparisons. Altohough the living room shootouts are also invaluable to what we are trying to achieve. I’ll start by saying that I have the 150 that has the triple binding and the flame headstock and flame pickguard with the Seymour Duncan pups. I think it was made in the early ‘90’s. I also have a 535 which is an amazing guitar but I want to focus on the LP’s as that is what the intense AB’ing has been about for us these last few months. I thought you guys might find it interesting. The G’s I own are a VOS (vintage original spec) R7 which stands for 1957 goldtop reissue (amazing guitar) and a Tom Murphy lightly aged finished R9 (custom shop “59 flametop) reissue, an even more amazing guitar. The Heritage is my #1 guitar at the moment and both the R7 and the R9 were #1’s for me earlier in the year. This is due to pickups. All three guitars are worthy of the #1 rating on my gig. What I want to share are the similarities and differences in the guitars and their original ancestors as we also have access to an original 1959 Les Paul with double white pickups and a zebra PAF. This is the target for these guitars makers as well as our pickups I believe. One obvious and important difference is price. I’m something of a horse trader on ebay or locally and rarely buy guitars new. Both VOS G’s and my 150 were puchased on ebay, or in the case of the R9, found on ebay and then acquired locally, I paid $4700 for the R9, $1700 for the R7 and $850 for the 150. The 150 is the most impressive visually with a deep cherry to yellow burst and 3d flame with stunning details. The R9 is more understaded with an ice tea burst that looks kind of faded. I dropped the dough on the R9 because I kept hearing rumors that G used the best wood on the custom shop models and the best guitars on the line went to Murphy and me being the inquisitive type and the fact that business has been very good, I had to find out for myself. The difference between the R7 and R9 are that the R7 has a very chunky neck and the R9 sounds better. More open and airy with slightly better dynamics and less compression. Maybe not a $3200 difference. So I guess that narrows it down to the R9 and the 150. I’ll get in to construction differences on my next post. 150&R9.jpg 150&R9.jpg_thumb
tulk1 Posted March 24, 2009 Posted March 24, 2009 Heritage and G R9 Ahh, the requisite pics. Those are beautiful guitars! Both of them.
Spectrum13 Posted March 24, 2009 Posted March 24, 2009 Only $3950 more for the G-one? ;D Just kidding, both beautiful but change out the bridge and tailpiece on that 150 with the fancy binding and headstock and we got us a beauty contest.
Dick Seacup Posted March 24, 2009 Posted March 24, 2009 I believe that's an H-150 Deluxe, with the matching pickguard and headstock; should have a belly cut, too, I think. The thing that struck me in the picture is that the inlays on the H-150 look more 'lively,' for lack of a better word, than the Gibson inlays. Totally inconsequential, it was just something I noted. Anyway, a comparison between the different guitars, especially with an honest-to-G-d vintage LP in the mix, along with all the pickup notes would be very cool. Thank you, in advance, for taking the time to share it with us! Sound clips would be cool, too.
Gitfiddler Posted March 24, 2009 Posted March 24, 2009 Mark, with your background and discerning taste in gitfiddles, I'm certain you will be a valuable contributor around here. I agree with you about the R7. Amazing instrument. I've considered selling it to score 2 more Heritages, but could never pull the trigger after playing it. Your H-150 Deluxe is a beauty. It looks like it gets along well with the R9 too. Karma up for your very informative initial posts...and pics!
Kuz Posted March 24, 2009 Posted March 24, 2009 Nice guitars and an excellent resume. But to make this a fair battle you need to change the 150s bridge to a nashville tune-a-matic. You are probably aware that Seymore Duncan did scientific test that showed like a 24% improvement in sustain going to the nashville bridge and tailpiece. Good luck and I think you have 3 winners.
golferwave Posted March 25, 2009 Posted March 25, 2009 Beautiful axes there Mark. Kuz has a point about the bridge. While I personally like the roller bridge due to adjustability and not breaking strings it does kill sustain a little. Anyway welcome to the HOC and we're anxious to hear your opinions.
yoslate Posted March 25, 2009 Posted March 25, 2009 Mark, it was a pretty busy thread here a couple of months ago, which is why I ask, but it seems the strings on the R9 are top-wrapped over the tailpiece. Am I seeing correctly? What's your take on that?
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