Heritage guitars and tone - It's the wood!

[plexirocker 68]

I was just reading a few posts here and thought I'd share some thoughts.

 

Many times people debate all kinds of stuff in search of what makes the guitars sound great. All kinds of Specs are thrown about,  you know tenons and abr's vs.nashvilles,pickups,neck shapes, tailpieces,wires,caps the whole deal, all of it.

 

If you have had the chance to play many old guitars or heck lots of new ones for that matter have you ever realized that many old guitars of the same make will have almost identical specs. All old Les Pauls or 335's or Strats or whatever are not equal even with the SAME SPECS in pups,bridges,tailpieces,tenons all that stuff. There are great guitars and bad ones WITH THE SAME SPECS.

 

It's the wood IMO ;D It's just simply putting the right neck on the right body and those two tones complement each other instead of cancelling each other tonally out, sorta like being in phase or out of phase

 

This is my personall obeservation on why I love the Heritage stuff, the wood. All the rest of it is changeable

 

plexi

[Dick Seacup]

I think the electro-mechanical aspects of the instrument are minor compared to the amount and quality of tone that is determined by the studied and judicious application of the fleshy parts covering our phalanges. That being said, I do realize that some guitars have 'it' and some do not. That is where the wood and, perhaps more importantly, the craftsmanship come in to play. I wonder if a "Monday" guitar generally sounds worse than a "Friday" guitar.

[JeffB]

Couldn't agree more. Specs mean squat.

Plug it in, if its all come together in a way that is pleasing and right for you, then its a good guitar.... for you.

Ive seen to many people spend money up grading their guitar to come to the realisation that it just isn't, and never has, done it for them.

Core tone is over looked in favour of specs a lot.

I think the electro-mechanical aspects of the instrument are minor compared to the amount and quality of tone that is determined by the studied and judicious application of the fleshy parts covering our phalanges. That being said, I do realize that some guitars have 'it' and some do not. That is where the wood and, perhaps more importantly, the craftsmanship come in to play. I wonder if a "Monday" guitar generally sounds worse than a "Friday" guitar.

Agree with this as well. There was a thread on another forum where some one was rubbishing SD59's and at the same time saying what great tone Robbin Ford. Robbin Ford used SD59's for the longest time. ;D Robben Ford would pretty much sound like Robben Ford regardless of p/up

[plexirocker 68]

Craftsmanship I believe has a lot to do with it and the inital wood selection process. I believe matching necks to bodies so they are in concert is really the key.

 

When you are looking at vintage guitars in particular many times a small time frame in years seems to produce stellar results. I attribute that to the guys in the wood shop that got some good stuff and it all came together.

 

I definatley believe Heritage has the tone advantage over most new Gby's because of the smaller number of guitars made and they can be more selective in tonewoods instead of just cranking them out.

 

There is a real cool video on You Tube that has a comparison between Larry Dimarzios 59 Les Paul and a modern Historic with his new PAF's in them.

 

The 59 sounds fully balanced in tone with a thick midrange. The Historic sounds sounds mid empty with no overtones. This is about the best to desrcibe what I meant in my previous post about one guitar sounding in phase and the other one sounds out of phase. Like the tones in the guitar are fighting each other and cancelling out.

 

plexi

[yoslate]

I'm with Dixie, again, on this.  Heard my friend Will MacFarlane (Bonnie Raitt, Muscle Shoals) last night, on a $350 Craig's list Tele (He really likes the neck), and his tone was terrific!  He usually plays his '55 Tele, a guitar I've played and can testify that it's a righteous one!  He sounds virtually the same on both guitars....  

[Sparky]

Has anyone ordered a Heritage with tap-tuning of the top and back? Just wondering if the guitar ends up being

more harmonious with better tone and sustain as a result.

[Reverb]

I do think pots, caps, bridges, nuts, etc... can enhance the sound of the guitar. I've seen too many times where a minor change has made a big difference. However, any change you can make can only enhance what is already there. It's all in the wood and no two pieces are the same. If what you were looking for wasn't there before..it's not going to be after any change you make. Guitars are like women in the sense that you need to love them for what they are before you start spending your paychecks on them to dress 'em up. If you don't you're just wasting your money on something that wasn't meant to be. But at least you can trade off your guitar for a different model.

[Dick Seacup]

I do think pots, caps, bridges, nuts, etc... can enhance the sound of the guitar. I've seen too many times where a minor change has made a big difference. However, any change you can make can only enhance what is already there.

 

I'm just going to throw this out there in a metaphysical, post-Kantian sort of way...but, what if changing those things really only changes you, the player?

[Spectrum13]

If I change my nut...is that pocket change?

[barrymclark]

Seeing as how I have never had a guitar that was good enough to not be left unmodified (never owned a Heritage, but it is in the plans!) I can say this from my experience. Good tone is not only in the beholder's ear but only as good as the weakest link in the chain. If you have top notch woods, pickups, pots, jacks, switches, tuning keys and bridges but not your favorite choice in wiring, then... well... you come up short.

 

For my Gretsches, which I bought as basket cases, they got TV Jones pickups, Sperzel locking tuners, Bigsby (where one wasn't present), graphite nut, CTS pots, Switchcraft switches/jacks and Belden wiring. These were cheaper guitars and the hardware change alone was a MASSIVE change toward the tone I wanted... because these are thing components I prefer. Somebody else may not like the results.

[Reverb]

I'm just going to throw this out there in a metaphysical, post-Kantian sort of way...but, what if changing those things really only changes you, the player?

 

I think, over time, those things could change your attack and feel and thus the way you play. But when you've played the same song 1000 times, and you first plug in and hit that first note after a change, I think you're playing the same way. Anything that effects string vibration, or your signal, is going to effect your tone. Heck, good ole SRV himself wouldn't use expensive cables because they passed too much electricity. He didn't like the way the CABLE sounded.

 

Tone is very very subjective. What sounds good to one guy isn't going to sound good to the next sometimes. You always hear about different guys plugging into different rigs and sounding the same. While that's probably true to the listener, I'd almost guarantee that the guy playing doesn't feel the same way. You're always your own worst critic. Why? Because you know what YOU sound like. You listen to you more than anyone else. And when you play like me that's a good thing

[Kuz]

I am now (after many pickup swaps) under the belief that changing strings, hardware, pickups will only change the tone of the guitar by about 15%.

 

If it was a great guitar to begin with, you can make it 15% better.

 

If it was a dog to begin with, it will stay a flee bag no matter how much money you spend on her.

[barrymclark]

I personally cannot stand tone. Tone from a guitar is someone else's idea of what my guitar should sound like and it gets in the way of my creativity. I just don't work well in groups. 

[Spectrum13]

Kuz,

 

Right on man. I spent $$ putting lipstick on a pig and it's a waste. When you have something nice I still want that additional 15% where the factory specs out lower cost parts. It will depend what the "part" is but bone nuts and locking hardware can make a better setup. It keeps longer and is easier to work with. Tuners and buttons are cosmetic but strap locks can save your neck. I changed out the Johnny Smith pickup on my Eastman from the M.I.K. Kent Armstrong to the USA Kent and it was a world of difference.

[barrymclark]

I have a lot of those pigs painted up like hussies... and they are alright. They do the trick. Sometimes that extra 15% is all you really need to kick it through the uprights. But, if you putting some serious coin down on a guitar $1000 and higher, corner cutting is not well tolerated by me. I saw it in ESP when I sold guitars. 10 cent parts would have saved us soooo many headaches with their guitars.