H-157: Questions about pickups, tailpiece, pickguards

[Serge]

I recently bought a used H157. The letter in the S/N is blurry, not sure if it's an "N", an "M", or even a "W", so I am not sure of its age.

 

I couldn't resist for long, though, the urge to open it up to see what was under the hood. What I found is that the guitar has Golden Age pickups made for Heritage; am I losing something quality-wise, in comparison to Schaller pickups, for example?

 

The bridge and tailpiece are standard Gibson-type hardware; is the Schaller hardware superior, or the same overall?

 

Finally, the pickguard is a bit "experienced"; does anyone know where I could get a replacement black pickguard?

 

Oh, and by the way, I love the guitar!

 

Thanks in advance!

[GuitArtMan]

Aren't the Schallers in Heritage's also called Golden Age?  I know Stewart MacDonald also sells Golden Age pickups.  Perhaps these are made for them by Schaller.  Pickups are very subjective and one man's poisin is another man's wine.  I've heard good things about the Golden Age piclkups as far as a budget pickup goes.  Most here will say that Duncans (Seth Lovers, Antiquities, '59s, JBs) that often come standard in Heritages are superior to the Schallers.  Of course then there's the boutique crowd who will say Lollars, or Fralins, or WCR, or VooDoo, or Wolfetones, or Bare Knuckles, or Holmes, or... you get the picture.

 

Most will say the Gibson style hardware - nashville bridge and stop tail piece - is syperior to the Schaller hardware - roller bridge and big bulky tail piece, thoug there are some who like the roller bridge.  I vastly prefer the Gibson style hardware and have it on all of my Heritages.  You are starting to see more and more dealers ordering their Heritages with the Gibson style hardware.

 

Somebody posted here about a custom pickguard shop, pickguardian.com I believe, hopefully they'll jump in here with the correct name/address.

[Cryoman]

BUT, I think that Schaller is also making "Gibson style" bridges and tailpieces now vice the roller bridge and large tailpiece from earlier Heritage guitars.  I just for the 1st time yesterday removed and looked at my H150CM bridge and tailpiece.  The bridge is the standard "Nashville" style and says "Made in Germany."  I assume this is made by Schaller??  The tailpiece is Gotoh (Made in Japan.)  Anybody else have similar (different) hardware on their stock Heritage 150 or 157s??

 

Cheers, Cryoman

 

PS.  Hey Serge,  I'm "tooling up" to make some maple/bound pickguards ala H-157.  I'll let you know how this develops.  I've cut maple blanks for 10 already. Tomorrow I'm going to cut maple binding.  My black aniline dyeing of the 1st prototype looks just fine.... So far, my costs for 11 (including the test prototype) is about $3.89 for 1.62 board feet of maple (@ $2.40 per board foot).  So this is 39 cents per pickguard  so far (exluding my labor)... someone said Heritage wants hundreds for their replacements... more to come.

[Serge]

Thanks, guys!

 

Cryoman: yeah, please count me in (if you don't mind shipping to Canada)!

[jacques]

I have a rather blurry serial number too on my H150. I took a picture of it and mailed it to Ren @ Heritage. With the speed of light I got back my answer.

Don't throw away your Schaller stuff too easily. Schaller is a great and well respected company with an enormous experience in metal works. They provided the hardware for all your ancient vintage Gibsons. There's just a crazy negative buzz around Schaller in some internet circles and I suspect there might be some American nationalism behind it like what happens with Mexican, Korean, Indonesian and Chinese guitars. I find my Schaller pickups (in both an old H162 and an H127: http://boomp3.com/m/45da79d60902 ) to be very excellent.

 

Jacques (not from Germany but from the Netherlands).

[yoslate]

Again, thanks to John Covach, who first referenced this site, the Pickguardian web address is: pickguardian.com . For those of you who missed this site the first couple of rounds, check in with them.  The site and their offerings seem terrific, although I have not used them...yet.

[GuitArtMan]

BUT, I think that Schaller is also making "Gibson style" bridges and tailpieces now vice the roller bridge and large tailpiece from earlier Heritage guitars.  I just for the 1st time yesterday removed and looked at my H150CM bridge and tailpiece.  The bridge is the standard "Nashville" style and says "Made in Germany."  I assume this is made by Schaller??  The tailpiece is Gotoh (Made in Japan.)  Anybody else have similar (different) hardware on their stock Heritage 150 or 157s??

 

Cheers, Cryoman

 

PS.  Hey Serge,  I'm "tooling up" to make some maple/bound pickguards ala H-157.  I'll let you know how this develops.  I've cut maple blanks for 10 already. Tomorrow I'm going to cut maple binding.  My black aniline dyeing of the 1st prototype looks just fine.... So far, my costs for 11 (including the test prototype) is about $3.89 for 1.62 board feet of maple (@ $2.40 per board foot).  So this is 39 cents per pickguard  so far (exluding my labor)... someone said Heritage wants hundreds for their replacements... more to come.

Yes the bridge on my 535 says "Made in germany" and I believe is Schaller.  My tail piece is also Shcaller.  As a point of refrence, TonePros started by modifying Schaller hardware - they had a brief spell after Mr. Schaller passed away when they couldn't get it and so switched to Gotoh.  The TonePros on my other 535 says "Made in Germany" on the bottom and so I'm lead to believe it is Schaller.

[GuitArtMan]

I have a rather blurry serial number too on my H150. I took a picture of it and mailed it to Ren @ Heritage. With the speed of light I got back my answer.

Don't throw away your Schaller stuff too easily. Schaller is a great and well respected company with an enormous experience in metal works. They provided the hardware for all your ancient vintage Gibsons. There's just a crazy negative buzz around Schaller in some internet circles and I suspect there might be some American nationalism behind it like what happens with Mexican, Korean, Indonesian and Chinese guitars. I find my Schaller pickups (in both an old H162 and an H127: http://boomp3.com/m/45da79d60902 ) to be very excellent.

 

Jacques (not from Germany but from the Netherlands).

Jacques,

I think the Schaller stuff some people don't like is the big, bulky, roller bridge which has a tendency to move when you change strings and mess up the string spacing, also the associated big, bulky taile piece.  Some feel they are a tone/sustian robber.  I think they look ugly as sin and much prefer the look of standard tune-o-matic/stop tail piece.  I was also one of those who kept messing up the string spacing when I changed strings.  The roller bridge is not for me.

[111518]

Jacques:

I think you have a point about the national chauvinism of American electric and steel string guitar buyers.  Maybe it's a sad sort of nostalgia, since these guitars are among the relatively few products for which American manufacturers still have the reputation (deserved or not) as world leaders.  Those of us who lived through the 70s nadir of American guitar manufacturing know that the prices three-bolt strats and pancake LP's are now fetching have nothing to do with their quality, which was no match for the Japanese guitars of the period --hard to get around the fact that about the only thing these guitars have going for them is the "made in the USA' decal or stamp. 

 

Harleys and guitars ...expensive American-made boomer boy toys that allow us to display our wealth while still thinking of ourselves as anti-materialistic rebels or hippies.  I plead guilty for the guitars, and whenever my wife gets pissed about all the cases, I remind her that it might have been the even more expensive Harley habit.  I do have some principles: Collins guitars seem to be great instruments, but I'm not going to buy anything made in Texas anytime soon, and I like the Heritage story because I think of it as a workers' owned shop. 

 

As an act of contrition for our nationalism, I propose that the first HOC convention be held in Amsterdam.  Forget Starbucks, you guys have figured out the true potential of the coffee shop. 

[jacques]

GuitartMan: the Schaller system I had on my H127 did not have those problems. To change the string spacing you would have to roll the saddle along a screw thread, the space between strings could never change by accident. The last picture shows the thread clearly. The tail piece may be considered big and bulky and I imho this is more about esthetics than tone, but I never A-B'd with a more regular nashville type of bridge and tail I must admit. I found die Metallwerke rather beautifull, actually.

 

111518: after all these confessions I'm beginning to feel guilty. Remember I love all my American fellow Heritagians! I upped your kharma for this. About our coffee shops: don't underestimate the strength of our combined national agricultural efforts that have resulted in rather high (no pun intended) standards of the product that is being sold in these outlets. The first HOC convention might easily end in chaos for both rebels and hippies if they are confronted with 'the true potential' of the typical Dutch coffeeshop. I think Iceland is better.   

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[doggy1972]

I too find the Schaller hardware of very good quality and also love the aesthetics. I must admit the roller saddles have to be handled with some care when restringing but, I measure string spacings anyway so I can readjust if slippage occurs. As for the pickups, I really kinda like them. A lot more clarity than a lot of PAF clones out there.Maybe not chunky enough for some peoples tastes. Its all personal opinion I suppose.Maybe we should poll this to really find out.Just a thought

[GuitArtMan]

GuitartMan: the Schaller system I had on my H127 did not have those problems. To change the string spacing you would have to roll the saddle along a screw thread, the space between strings could never change by accident. The last picture shows the thread clearly. The tail piece may be considered big and bulky and I imho this is more about esthetics than tone, but I never A-B'd with a more regular nashville type of bridge and tail I must admit. I found die Metallwerke rather beautifull, actually.

 

111518: after all these confessions I'm beginning to feel guilty. Remember I love all my American fellow Heritagians! I upped your kharma for this. About our coffee shops: don't underestimate the strength of our combined national agricultural efforts that have resulted in rather high (no pun intended) standards of the product that is being sold in these outlets. The first HOC convention might easily end in chaos for both rebels and hippies if they are confronted with 'the true potential' of the typical Dutch coffeeshop. I think Iceland is better.   

Hi Jacques,

Yep that's the offending roller bridge.  On mine the rollers moved very easily and if I just looked at it wrong, it seemed like they would move.  Just stringing up I could see them turn as the string was wound to pitch.  I know I'm not the only one who's had the same problem, but like I say some people like the bridge.  I'm glad yours works well for you and your like it.

Bob

[Serge]

Looked at the tailpiece, happens to be a made in Japan Gotoh.  Is that usual, or could it be the result of a previous owner's mod?

[Cryoman]

Same as my H150.  It's standard Heritage fare. I assume they've been using either Gotoh or Schaller from Day 1.  I'm not certain who else makes these parts (I bet Gibson doesn't even make their own?)  Anyone know who else manufactures tailpieces and bridges?

 

Cheers, Cryoman.

 

PS. The Gotoh and Schaller (new stuff: "Nashviille, ABR-1) hardware are absolutely fine. Very well made and very true to original Gibson hardware designs.

[Kazwell]

Forget the hardware, as I said in another post, the toggle wiring looked like something that came out of the Samick factory! Shame on you Heritage! If folks are going to say that an H-150 os comparable to a Gibson custom shop LP quality wise, they need to add that "it is when the electronics are replaced."

 

Shaller is a quality company no matter how you cut it and the hardware is a personal preference thing that the Heritage team obviously believed would set their axes apart from what they had been building at Gibson-, but there is no excuse for cheap crappy parts hidden inside thier product no matter what the country of origin those parts came from.

[GuitArtMan]

Forget the hardware, as I said in another post, the toggle wiring looked like something that came out of the Samick factory! Shame on you Heritage! If folks are going to say that an H-150 os comparable to a Gibson custom shop LP quality wise, they need to add that "it is when the electronics are replaced."

Well considering all the people who sing Gibson's praises over at the LP forum replace their Gibsons' electronics...  ;D

[Kuz]

No doubt about it that Heritage's weakest contribution is in their electronics.

 

-I don't like their stock schaller pickups (the HRWs are great schallers though)

 

-And more specificly I mean their horrible wiring. Both my '98 Sweet 16 and my '06 Golden Eagle use a coupling cord from the floating pickup to the pots by way of some cheapo "Radio Hack" coupling link that clanks inside the body. My dealer offered to replace it with a nice cloth wound cord, I think I'm going to take him up on it.

 

Heritage, you just a couple little things here and there, and then some 21st century marketing ....... who knows what might happen.

[Kazwell]

Well considering all the people who sing Gibson's praises over at the LP forum replace their Gibsons' electronics... 

 

GuitArtMan

 

Even on the historics? I was assuming the VOS for instance would follow original specs-which would call for old school electronics. Guess I was wrong. I am basing the statement "as good as Gibson historics' based on a sales pitch I got from Eddie's a couple of years ago. Guess BOTH companies use crappy wiring then. My bad. :-

[tulk1]

GuitArtMan

 

Even on the historics? I was assuming the VOS for instance would follow original specs-which would call for old school electronics. Guess I was wrong. I am basing the statement "as good as Gibson historics' based on a sales pitch I got from Eddie's a couple of years ago. Guess BOTH companies use crappy wiring then. My bad. :-

 

I was going to make a reply about Eddies carrying more Heritage than Gibs. Then thought I should check that out first. Just looked at their inventory. Looks like they've added quite a few H150s. Some right pretty ones, too.

 

Still, I think my first thought was correct. They're going to push the Heritage guitars more than the G's ... so yeah, they're going to compare them and say the Heritage is better. Probably get a better profit margin, too.