why is the 137's wraparound bridge angled?

[JimmyTheSaint]

I've heard that Heritage intentionally installs bridge studs on the 137 with a somewhat larger space where the Pigtail wraparound bridge slides on so that the bridge will tilt down a couple of degrees. Does anyone know what difference this makes? I'm having setup issues with my 137 and was thinking about ordering traditionally spaced studs from Pigtail to see if that will help.

[Dick Seacup]

I seem to recall reading somewhere that Heritage does spec the bridge slightly different than 'standard' but I can't remember where I read that.  Not much help there, sorry.

 

The L-series H137 that just arrived today has the beefy Schaller tail piece and it does, in fact, tip forward.  I have a question about the ball end retainer in that piece, but I'll save that for a different thread.

 

What problem are you having with your 137?

[JimmyTheSaint]

The action on mine is high enough to affect the playability in a noticeable way. I posted this over at the other forum, but not a single reply in a week:

 

I'm not an expert, but I just got some guitar setup tools from Stewmac so that I can set up my own guitars better than I could before. I have a 2006 Heritage 137 with 11's, and after adjusting the truss rod and the bass and treble sides of the bridge height, the lowest action I'm able to achieve without buzzing is .050" treble and .085" bass. My neck relief is .005"--any straighter and it buzzes in the first 2-3 frets. These numbers seem kind of high to me, and the action feels high. For example, my cookie cutter 2006 Epiphone 56 Goldtop has neck relief .003" and its action is .040" treble and .055" bass.

 

What's more, using my new fret-rocking tool I found high frets on the Heritage 137 at frets 4, 15, and 18. I thought PLEK is supposed to level out the frets to an inhuman degree. I don't really no much about fret milling, but in comparison my Epi Goldtop has high frets at frets 2, 6, 8, and 18, so apparently the Heritage isn't much better than the Epi. The Heritage neck does have a better feeling playability than the Epi, aside from the annoyance of the higher action, but I think it may have higher frets than the Epi, which is the slightly "scalloped" feel I prefer. Is there something I don't understand about what it means to have level frets, and maybe something inferior about this Heritage 137?

 

As another point of comparison, I have a 1998 Heritage Sweet 16 archtop set up with roundwound 12's. Its neck relief is zero, and its action is .055" treble and .075" bass. The action was quite a bit lower when I had flatwounds on it. It was this guitar that convinced me to give the Heritage solid body a try.

[Dick Seacup]

Wow, I really can't help you with that stuff. 

 

All I know how to do is change strings, file out the nut for the flatwound 11s I prefer (seems like everyone else in the world likes 9s...ugh), set the action and intonation and occasionally muck with the truss rod.  But, although I can do those things, I have no idea about measurements.    I just put everything where it feels right to me, which may or may not be the same as any of my other guitars.  Double-

 

I know nothing of fret leveling other than I had a mint (and I mean mint, NOS!) Hamer in for a fret 'dressing' (just wanted them touched up) and the tech did some 'special multi-pass fret levelling' where the higher frets were taken down lower than the lower frets.  I was, not surprisingly, unimpressed, as it just really need the crowns touched up.  And he left grease all over the thing.  I was thoroughly underwhelmed.

 

I hope someone more knowledgeable about the bridge, Plek and relief issues your having chimes in.  I love to learn about this kind of thing.  I'm truly sorry to hear of your issues, though!

[JimmyTheSaint]

Actually, the tools for measuring are pretty inexpensive and simple to use. I got them so that I could track action and truss rod changes more accurately in case I want to return to previous setups. Ultimately the feel is what matters, of course, and the numbers are secondary. My issue with the 137 is simply that when playing some multi-string chords requiring a bar or partial bar some of the notes don't sound unless I work my hand uncomfortably and squeeze harder compared to my Les Paul 57RI, and, surprisingly, my Epi Gold Top. The 137's higher action doesn't bother me when playing melodies. It's annoying because the 137 otherwise feels really good to me, and it doesn't matter much with distortion, but I mostly play clean. I'd stick with the Epiphone (with my pickup upgrade) but I hate the feel of the poly finish on the neck. The other guitars I mentioned all have nitro finishes, which matters to me only in regard to nitro's feel on the neck. Nitro's other supposed advantages are secondary to me.

 

When you get your 137, I'd be curious if you consider its action unnecessarily high.

[GuitArtMan]

The G string on my H-137 always had a kind of muffled sound - like some fuzz was stuck on it.  I tried TonePros locking studs, the helped with the lean but not the muffled sound on my G strinf.  I went with the TonePros bridge and now my G string rings clear as a bell.  The odd thing is the saddles on the Pig Tail are taller and so one would think there would be more downward pressure and therefor clearer tone.  I can only assume the notch in the G string saddle on the Pigtail wasn't quite shaped right and made for the muffled sound. 

 

Someone of TGP commented about the bridge lean with there H-137 and how they corrected it with the PigTail studs.

[JimmyTheSaint]

Someone of TGP commented about the bridge lean with there H-137 and how they corrected it with the PigTail studs.

 

Yeah, I seem to remember that, but there was no explanation of why Heritage leans the bridge. That's when I called Heritage and found their answering machine on for days. PigTail's phone number doesn't work either. I'm just curious to know what the leaning bridge is intended to accomplish. My 137's G string is fine, but I've seen other guitars with the kind of G string problem you describe, so that's weird.

[Thundersteel]

Maybe it needs to be re-pleked?  ??? I don't know, just a thought...

 

That the first I've ever heard about a leaning tailpiece...sorry I couldn't be of more help.

[GuitArtMan]

One more thing to take note of:  You can only get the action so low on the H-137 before the strings start to hit the bridge pickup.  I know because I've tried.  I can't remember how high I ended up setting it, but it's a fair amout higher than either of my H-535s and my Les Paul and needs to be so I don't hit the bridge pickup.  I wish they would have used soap bars instead of dog ears so the bridge pickup could be lowered. 

[StrangeC]

Back to the original question, does anyone know Why Heritage specks their bridge studs slightly undersized to the tailpiece tips slightly?

[GuitArtMan]

Back to the original question, does anyone know Why Heritage specks their bridge studs slightly undersized to the tailpiece tips slightly?

Actually the studs are normal size, with normal play.  My guess is it just a cost thing:

Tradtional Studs (in nickel or chrome):  $7.07 - 7.14

TonePros Studs (nickel or chrome): $38.84

Pigtail Studs (nickel or chrome): $36.50

[JimmyTheSaint]

Actually the studs are normal size, with normal play.  My guess is it just a cost thing:

Tradtional Studs (in nickel or chrome):  $7.07 - 7.14

TonePros Studs (nickel or chrome): $38.84

Pigtail Studs (nickel or chrome): $36.50

 

If the studs are normal size and the bridge has space to tilt, then the bridge must be less than normal size. Would Heritage specify to Pigtail such a bridge to save money, or because they have something they want to achieve by tilting the bridge?

[StrangeC]

My understanding is Heritage specs the bridge posts undersized from Pigtail for some reason.  ie  Pigtail is providing the entire system.

[Dick Seacup]

Well, maybe they think that when the tail piece tips forward it increases coupling between that and the studs which would transmit more string vibration to the body.  But, that's just a WAG.

[JimmyTheSaint]

My only guess is that they want to change the angle the strings make with the saddles at the point where they meet. People have told me a sharper angle adds sustain and a shallower angle changes the tone in some way that no one who claims this has ever been able to explain to me.