Small tube combo for home use ? ( non EL84)

[SouthpawGuy]

At the moment I have a Blues Jnr and a Vox AC30CC2 which both have EL84s and 12AX7s.

 

Is there a small all valve combo out there that would be suitable for home use at low ( sometimes very low ) volumes ? Preferably with a 12" speaker, reverb and effects loop.

 

Small can be anything from 5 to 30 watts, it must have a great clean tone. It must not have EL84s though.

 

I bought the two amps mentioned purely on sound, not on specs, which I suppose is the right way to do it but I would maybe like to try out something different.

 

Do any of the HOCs resident amp gurus have any input they would like to share ?

[fxdx99]

princeton reverb - although these are w/10" spkrs. Can look for a silverface one to save some $ over the 60s blackface and replace the baffle/speaker w/12". Or look at maybe Headstrong or Allen for a clone.

 

imho - hard to beat clean tones for home use or low volume gigs.

[Spectrum13]

Don't know if they are available to you... but Wolfe could ship you a Swart.

 

I have the 5 watt STR Tweed 12" Mojo tone. Comes with one power tube a 6V6 but you could use a 6L6 or a 34 with no bias. Great verb but no effects loop. Thick tone works for blues, rock and Jazz if your box is not too close. Ton of fun.

[SouthpawGuy]

Thanks for the suggestions guys, I forgot to mention that I'm in Ireland. We use 240v, plus shipping an amp, even a small one would probably be very expensive.

 

Tonally how does the Princeton compare to the Blues Deluxe reissue ? I was very interested in the Blues Deluxe but it had a hair trigger volume control and could not get it to play at a low volume. I've found that with most of the Fender amps, they're obviously designed for gigging. The AC30 however gives up great tones at low volumes so I bought it.

 

The Swart sounds very interesting, I'll have to check out if they are available over here.

 

Keep the tips coming ...

[Kuz]

Headstrong Lil' King $1400-1500 and is an exact copy of the Princeton reverb.

 

Incredible cleans, and takes pedals very well- heck it's Marc Ford's go to amp with pedals.

 

I love mine.

 

I would also say get a used Carr Rambler and sell every other amp you own (14-28watts though vs the Headstrong Lil King's 12-14)!

[fxdx99]

Tonally how does the Princeton compare to the Blues Deluxe reissue ? I was very interested in the Blues Deluxe but it had a hair trigger volume control and could not get it to play at a low volume. I've found that with most of the Fender amps, they're obviously designed for gigging.

Keep the tips coming ...

 

Swart seems like a very cool amp, although they don't seem to have as much clean headroom. Wonderful tones, tho, no question. The PR is a different circuit from the deluxe reissue, which is more of a tweed type design. You're right about the tweed-based - the volume is kinda an 'on/off' switch. The PR sounds great at low volume. Deep lush cleans, great reverb and 'tremelo' as well. From what you described as needing a good clean sound - the PR would be (and is) at the top of my list for a low volume clean sound. Even sounds pretty good when driven a bit (think Larry Carlton tones w/crusaders or solo, but not the Steely Dan dirty stuff which was a tweed).

[Hfan]

Southpaw guy, This is a little off subject, but I see you have a Blues Jr. Have you ever checked out Bill M's mods? He specializes in Blues jr's (all he does) and his kits are reasonable. I installed most of them in mine and it was an incredible improvement for very little money.

 

Heres the link

 

 

home.comcast.net/~machrone/bluesjunior.htm

[Rude Dog]

I was very interested in the Blues Deluxe but it had a hair trigger volume control and could not get it to play at a low volume.

 

I know a couple people that swapped the volume pot on a blues deluxe, as well as on a hot rod deluxe to fix the "hair trigger" effect.

 

They went from either linear taper to audio, or vice versa... I can't remember. And that made the volume control useable as opposed to going from a whisper to way to loud by just nudging the control.

[SouthpawGuy]

Southpaw guy, This is a little off subject, but I see you have a Blues Jr. Have you ever checked out Bill M's mods? He specializes in Blues jr's (all he does) and his kits are reasonable. I installed most of them in mine and it was an incredible improvement for very little money.

 

Heres the link

 

 

home.comcast.net/~machrone/bluesjunior.htm

 

 

I've come across those mods before, I think HFB has them done on his Jnr ? I don't know if the mods are available in Ireland, they do sound promising ( pun intended ! ). I'm severely challenged when it comes to wiring anything, a power lead plug is about my limit. I might check them out though. I actually like the sound out of the Jnr, it's totally different in tone to the AC30, even though they both have the same preamp and power amp tubes.

 

Thanks for the link

[SouthpawGuy]

I know a couple people that swapped the volume pot on a blues deluxe, as well as on a hot rod deluxe to fix the "hair trigger" effect.

 

They went from either linear taper to audio, or vice versa... I can't remember. And that made the volume control useable as opposed to going from a whisper to way to loud by just nudging the control.

 

Interesting, thanks for the heads up.

[Hfan]

Your amp tech could install them easily if you don't like soldering etc, . Just get them from Bill, he has imatators on e bay etc, much inferior product, instructions etc. He would ship to you I'm sure. As stock, you can't even bias the Jrs.' pwr tubes and they run way too hot... high current (you are cooking the tubes ). Other mods improve tone etc.

[Dandownunder]

I'm pretty happy with my Mesa express 5:50. It runs 6L6's and is switchable between 5 watts class A ( l live in an apartment and need to keep the volume down)and 50 watts class A/B. I've got the 2 x 12 version but you can also get a 1 x 12. It's got one of the best clean sounds I've heard and also plenty of gain, but not as much as most Mesas. 2 channels with identical controls for each, each channel has 2 voices. clean or crunch on channel A. Blues or burn on channel B. Usually fairly expensive but I was lucky to find mine in Cash Converters (pawn shop) still with the plastic on for half price.

 

Theres a pic in my gallery album.

[Scooter]

I'm no amp guru. But have you heard of Reeves amplification? One of the guys from Hiwatt started this company up. They have sounds from each amp you can check out on their site. I love the Hiwatt sound and they offer amps that have it. They even have recreated the famed Fane speakers that Hiwatt used and call them Vintage Purples (if you buy one of their heads you can get a cab with these). Sweeeeeeeeeeeet sounds. I'm pretty sure I'm going with one of their amps.

Here's the great part for home playing: They have this technology they use called "power scaling." It's like an attenuator but it is built into the amp's circuitry rather than being between the amp and the cabinet. This means that your tubes will last longer and you'll still have the same tone at low volumes as you would having the amp cranked. It's on a dial. To quote someone else: You could play as quiet as a mouse fart and still have all the tone. Many of the Reeves amps have this "power scaling" feature. Models range from 6, 12, 18, 30, 50, 100 watts, but with the power scaling it don't really matter. They use various tube-types in their amps and have or don't have various other options (effects loop, etc).

www.reevesamps.com

 

Also, Carr amps are sweet. The Carr Mercury has a 4 position built in attenuator: 8, 2, 1/2, and 1/10 watts. Good for the home. Has an EL-34 power tube and 12" speaker, but no effects loop. But sounds amazing.

www.carramps.com

 

Those Swarts are nice to.

 

Keep us posted on what you end up getting.

[Scooter]

In regards to the last post I realize you were looking for all valve. I'm not sure if it is because it = quieter, which I assumed. Just thought I'd share some tube options that can whisper and still keep their tone.

 

Scooter

[SouthpawGuy]

Lots to think of with all of the suggestions. Strange as it might seem I've never bought an amp without hearing it or playing it first. With guitars I do that all the time.

 

There is a shop about 20 miles from me that sells Mesa amps, last time I was there they had an Express 5:20 I think. I was afraid to plug it it in case I ended up walking out of the store with it !

 

I can only dream of Swart,Carr and Dr Z etc. I might be able to get the local shop to get one Blackstar HT-5 in for "test" purposes, it has no reverb and only has a 10" speaker but it looks very promising.

[Sparky]

Lots to think of with all of the suggestions. Strange as it might seem I've never bought an amp without hearing it or playing it first. With guitars I do that all the time.

 

There is a shop about 20 miles from me that sells Mesa amps, last time I was there they had an Express 5:20 I think. I was afraid to plug it it in case I ended up walking out of the store with it !

 

I can only dream of Swart,Carr and Dr Z etc. I might be able to get the local shop to get one Blackstar HT-5 in for "test" purposes, it has no reverb and only has a 10" speaker but it looks very promising.

 

And now... for something completely different. Try a Behringer GM110. No tubes, no reverb... but its a copy of Tech21 Trademark 60, but at 30 watts. It has 27 different available sounds, the clean sounds remarkably like a Fender clean with a hint of compression. There were two different styles made... one a "retro" Fender looking amp with Chicken-head knobs (this one has a 35 watt Jensen 10" speaker which CANNOT handle the power the amp puts out) and a"modern" looking one with regular knobs, but this one has (usually) an upgraded 60 watt 10" Bugera speaker in it. I just bought one for $98.00 US. It weighs a friendly 30 lbs. If you can get past the fact that they're cheap analog modeling amps made in China, your ears will be pleasantly surprised.

[Sparky]

And now... for something completely different. Try a Behringer GM110. No tubes, no reverb... but its a copy of Tech21 Trademark 60, but at 30 watts. It has 27 different available sounds, the clean sounds remarkably like a Fender clean with a hint of compression. There were two different styles made... one a "retro" Fender looking amp with Chicken-head knobs (this one has a 35 watt Jensen 10" speaker which CANNOT handle the power the amp puts out) and a"modern" looking one with regular knobs, but this one has (usually) an upgraded 60 watt 10" Bugera speaker in it. I just bought one for $98.00 US. It weighs a friendly 30 lbs. If you can get past the fact that they're cheap analog modeling amps made in China, your ears will be pleasantly surprised.

 

Sorry.. its a copy of the Tech21 T10. Check out the reviews of the GM110 at Harmony Central.

[pushover]

I'm late to the prom as usual... Let me also be the contrarian..

 

Obviously it's dangerous to over gerneralize, but I've always been of the feeling that tube amps don't shine unless they're being driven at decent volumes, and that really just doesn't happen mch in the home. My Music Man has a high and low power setting and somehow, even on low power unless everyone is out of the house and I can crank the volume up some, it doesn't do it justice. Yeh.. you want a tube amp for gigs and when you play with others, but buy some cheaper solid state amp for playing at home.

 

Just my opinion.. I could be wrong...

[SouthpawGuy]

And now... for something completely different. Try a Behringer GM110. No tubes, no reverb... but its a copy of Tech21 Trademark 60, but at 30 watts. It has 27 different available sounds, the clean sounds remarkably like a Fender clean with a hint of compression. There were two different styles made... one a "retro" Fender looking amp with Chicken-head knobs (this one has a 35 watt Jensen 10" speaker which CANNOT handle the power the amp puts out) and a"modern" looking one with regular knobs, but this one has (usually) an upgraded 60 watt 10" Bugera speaker in it. I just bought one for $98.00 US. It weighs a friendly 30 lbs. If you can get past the fact that they're cheap analog modeling amps made in China, your ears will be pleasantly surprised.

 

 

I'm late to the prom as usual... Let me also be the contrarian..

 

Obviously it's dangerous to over gerneralize, but I've always been of the feeling that tube amps don't shine unless they're being driven at decent volumes, and that really just doesn't happen mch in the home. My Music Man has a high and low power setting and somehow, even on low power unless everyone is out of the house and I can crank the volume up some, it doesn't do it justice. Yeh.. you want a tube amp for gigs and when you play with others, but buy some cheaper solid state amp for playing at home.

 

Just my opinion.. I could be wrong...

 

Thanks guys, I actually do have a couple of other amps, a Cyber Twin and a Cube 30x. They are great amps in their own right but they really don't hold a candle to the valve amps, even at low volume. The Heritage hollows and semis just don't sound the best through them, they sound sort of generic. It was a real ear opener when I plugged the 535 into the Blues Jnr, I could actually hear and feel the difference immediately. I find the ss or modelling amps sound better with solid body guitars, the VIP 2 sounds very good through the Cube amp when using the Marshall "model".

 

I have found out that my local shop can source a Blackstar HT-5 through another shop, but it only has a 10" speaker and no reverb. The price is good though, only about 350 euro. I will have to bug them until they get one in for stock

 

Brent, any chance you could ship that Rivera over to me for a couple of days ?

[RJLII]

I too am a bit late to the dance, but I get excellent results from a '65 Blackface Deluxe Reverb Reissue. It's 22 watts, all tube (including the rectifier), has amazing clean tones, and you can turn it down low enough to not pi$$ off your neighbors (or co-habitants). If you want volume it's there too, and you can dial in a great gritty tone by just turning up the gas. My hollowbodies sound great through it. While not cheap by any means, it's about half the cost of some of the boutique amps mentioned above. I have an Original Tweed Blues Deville 410 that hasn't had the cover off since I got the Deluxe.

[SouthpawGuy]

I too am a bit late to the dance, but I get excellent results from a '65 Blackface Deluxe Reverb Reissue. It's 22 watts, all tube (including the rectifier), has amazing clean tones, and you can turn it down low enough to not pi$$ off your neighbors (or co-habitants). If you want volume it's there too, and you can dial in a great gritty tone by just turning up the gas. My hollowbodies sound great through it. While not cheap by any means, it's about half the cost of some of the boutique amps mentioned above. I have an Original Tweed Blues Deville 410 that hasn't had the cover off since I got the Deluxe.

 

I think I have played one of those Deluxe Reverb reissues, I'm not 100% sure it was the same amp though. It also had a hair trigger volume control, master volume only. Maybe it wasn't the same amp. This one was about 1800 euro, so it definitely wasn't cheap !

[Scooter]

I'm no amp guru. But have you heard of Reeves amplification? One of the guys from Hiwatt started this company up. They have sounds from each amp you can check out on their site. I love the Hiwatt sound and they offer amps that have it. They even have recreated the famed Fane speakers that Hiwatt used and call them Vintage Purples (if you buy one of their heads you can get a cab with these). Sweeeeeeeeeeeet sounds. I'm pretty sure I'm going with one of their amps.

Here's the great part for home playing: They have this technology they use called "power scaling." It's like an attenuator but it is built into the amp's circuitry rather than being between the amp and the cabinet. This means that your tubes will last longer and you'll still have the same tone at low volumes as you would having the amp cranked. It's on a dial. To quote someone else: You could play as quiet as a mouse fart and still have all the tone. Many of the Reeves amps have this "power scaling" feature. Models range from 6, 12, 18, 30, 50, 100 watts, but with the power scaling it don't really matter. They use various tube-types in their amps and have or don't have various other options (effects loop, etc).

www.reevesamps.com

 

I just wanted to respond to the above blab I gave earlier in this thread. I've been on the Reeves and the Hiwatt forums and have heard from different people that the power scaling feature is good for higher volume tweeks, but doesn't work so well as far as say playing late at night and not wanting to wake the family---just doesn't work that great at lower levels.

 

Not that you wanted a Reeves anyway, nonetheless I said something that needed to be corrected.

 

While I'm on the subject, though, the Toneking Metropolitan has a new "phase 4" technology where supposedly everything I said in the above blab applies. There is one decent clip of the Metro on youtube and it sounds REAL good. I looked to see if there were any outlets for Toneking and Swart in Ireland, but the closest there is is Italy and somewhere on mainland Europe (couldn't decifer the language; Dutch, maybe. Dunno.). What a pain in the AAS.

[JeffB]

Its been killing me not to say this.

Mesa Lonestar Classic. 10/50/100w

Buy a separate cab with low watt speaker/s and run it on 10w's

Then it can be both a home practice amp and a 50 or 100 watt gig/jam amp.

With the tweed setting on it reduces the watts even further. 50 to40 100 to 85(I think)

 

Ok. I can move on now.

[tulk1]

Its been killing me not to say this.

Mesa Lonestar Classic. 10/50/100w

Buy a separate cab with low watt speaker/s and run it on 10w's

Then it can be both a home practice amp and a 50 or 100 watt gig/jam amp.

With the tweed setting on it reduces the watts even further. 50 to40 100 to 85(I think)

 

Ok. I can move on now.

 

The Tweed setting on mine is what led me to get the custom tweeds in the first place. I love that setting on the LS. +1

[Mikenov]

I have tried to like those Mesa Expresses. I tried it twice. I bet that thing is a tone monster. I just didn't get enough time either time to dial it in on any of the channels. Its just too much for me. 4 different channels plus different power settings. I just wasn't able to find the tone in that box. I was too busy switching from channel to channel trying to find the one that I liked. I think this says more about me than the amp. I want an amp I can just set and leave and like all the time. I can clean it up with my volume and I really don't like to much dirt.