Heritage H535 specifications....

[Newk]

Hi, everybody! Well, I'm a brand new here. Finaly I've found the place where all Heritage-lovers gather together!  

 

I got some questions 'bout H535. I looked through the SEARCH, but seems haven't found what I want to know.

I wonder, has H535 the same body size as ES335 - length, width, and thikness?

Sorry, I haven't found this information.  

And what about the neck thickness and its shape copmared to ES355, LP etc. ?

PLEK... What is it? Had guys from Kalamazoo any problems with frets and intonation?  ???

 

Actually, I look for warm, clean and round modern jazz tone. Something Steve Khan-like. Am I on the right way?

 

Hope to purchase that axe.....  

[Kuz]

First of all Welcome!

 

I own two 555s (one is customed to be exactly like a 535 but with 555 inlays)

 

Yes all the specs are same to the 335. These guys make them exactly like the original 335 because they made the 335s.

 

Neck specs are a little more difficult to talk about because 335 had different neck sizes (lfatter late 50s- early 60s neck, thinner late 60s neck).

 

So if you are ordering one they will make you the neck you want, if your buying from a dealer ask what kind of neck the guitar has.

 

For what it's worth- my '98 555 has a thinner late '60s profile neck and my custom order 555 I asked for a wide fatter '50s neck.

 

Good luck & enjoy

[111518]

Hi Newk:

Welcome to the site, and I'll take a shot at a few of your questions, since I own a 535 and an es-355 and a gibson-made epi riviera re-issue which is basically a 335 with a frequenser and mini buckers.  (I posted a picture on a thread "semi's coming out of the woodwork").

 

Dimensions: main difference n the guitar is depth.  The heritage is definitely, and noticeably, thinner, than a 335.  This tends to make the guitar feel smaller, but I think the width at upper and lower bouts is very similar to es 335/45/55.

 

Neck: the first impression I had when I unpacked my 535 was "wow," this neck feels more like the neck on my late 60s LP custom than any other neck I've ever grabbed.  It is beefier than most modern Les Pauls, but also not the huge, "half-round" neck that some 50s gibsons had.  It is less beefy/clumsy than the Epi neck (But remember, this is not a Korean or Japanese Epi, which often have very slim necks). The reason I bought the 535 was to get a thinline with a neck that was NOT as narrow as the neck on my 355; the neck is consistent in width, without the noticeable narrowing that many gibsons had in the late 60s/early 70s.  The consensus on this site, however, is that heritage necks vary a lot, so ask for an in-hand description from someone who knows guitars or play before you buy.  My 535 is pretty close in size, but better in feel, than the few recent 335's I've had a chance to play, but I may have just gotten lucky.

 

On Plek ... there were complaints about the fret work on Heritage; it kept a friend of mine who owns a shop from becoming a Heritage dealer.  I have three Heritage guitars, one pre-plek, two after, and all have good, consistent fret work ... but again, maybe I got lucky.  There are a couple of threads on this site that compare plek and a good fret job or fret dressing.  If you buy a Heritage, I would specifically check/ask about the quality of the fret job.

 

Sound: ???  Taste is everything.  I bought the 535 to have a humbucker/semi-hollow guitar that had a wide enough neck below the 5th fret to bend strings.  I'm also into the modern jazz/rock sound --Scofield, Kahn, Ford, for me esp. my fellow 'Larry,' Larry Carlton.  It took a while to get the guitar stable and setup as I like, but now that it's settled in (or maybe it's me that has moved), I'm happy with the guitar and I think it gives me a good tool to work towards the sound I'm after (which I believe comes mostly from the player, not the guitar.)  I don't think the fact that the body is thinner has much impact.  (I suspect the main impact "semi" v. solid has on amplified tone is less mass.  F holes, are, however, most cool and jazzlike.).  I ordered mine with an ebony fingerboard, but I think that is purely aesthetic --I could do a custom order with Heritage and get a guitar unique to me for the bucks that a used 335 would cost.  Mine has tonepros hardware and SD antiquities, which are suppose to sound like aged PAFs ... they are neither at the clean or dirty extreme of buckers, so again, they offer a good, flexible starting point for building tone.  If your tone model is Kahn, you might want something a little cleaner, like the SD Jazz pickups, or the schallers on older heritages.

 

A guitar --or maybe it's the fit between a guitar and a player-- is, I think, by nature pretty unique thing.  It is important that the guitar functions, looks and feels in a way that inspires you to play your best, and that's as much about you as the guitar.  In my experience, a good 535 is pretty similar in tone and feel to a good 335, except:

1) it is thinner (some might add that standard models have schaller hardware; I think this is more cosmetic than functional)

2) it's made by committed craftsmen in Kalamazoo, rather than by a huge corp. with a new factory in Memphis

3) it can be purchased for a third (or more) less, new or used.

 

For me, #3 and esp. #2 more than makes up for #1.  I like the in-the-know aspect of owning a Heritage, or a one-piece neck Epiphone ... but if you are going to feel the guitar is not quite right unless it says Gibson on the headstock like Kahn's, you should buy a Gibson. 

 

Hope this helps. 

[Kuz]

I just recently sold a '65 335 and my 555s are the same dimensions. I can't speak about the newer 335s.

[111518]

Hey Kuz,

(I've been waiting to write that.)  Turns out the specs are on the respective sites:

Heritage says 535/555 are 17 7/8" long, 16" wide, and 1 1/2 rim thickness.

 

Gibson says 335 historic is 19" long, 16" wide, and 1 3/4 thick.

 

I would have guessed there was more than a 1/4 difference, but I think all Heritage "H" models are a little thinner than their Gibson equivalents.

 

OK, so this proves that, having once worked in a guitar shop and had to deal with collectors who were obsessed with the tiniest differences in guitars, I've suffered serious damage to my sanity.  Forgive me. 

[Kuz]

I forgive, but I don't forget ;D

 

Seriously, I could be wrong but Ren himself said at the factory when I was there that they make them exactly like they were made in the 50s & 60s.

 

Could Gibson historical have changed their specs?

 

I'll try to call Ren next week. He will know. It wouldn't be the first time I was wrong ;D

[Gitfiddler]

Remember too, that the guitar making/shaping equipment used at Kalamazoo to make the semi hollows is the very same as what was used back in the 50's.  It stands to reason that the dimensions would be the same or very close for Heritage and Gibson.

[Newk]

Oooh! Thanx guys! So many usefull posts! I didn't expect you answer me so quickly. 

 

The Heritage is definitely, and noticeably, thinner, than a 335...

 

So, how strong it influence the tone? I heard somewhere, the difference in thickness is 0.25'.... Am I right?

 

On Plek ... there were complaints about the fret work on Heritage

 

What kind of complaints? Any serious?  ???

Well, as for me, I got annoying problem with my damn guitar. I wasn't enjoy how sounded some chords in open position - some notes were slightly out of right tuning. While mensuration was OK...

At the beginning of all I thought the problem was in the nut. But when I came to a luthier, he made some measurements and said me that the damn frets weren't install properly.  :'(

Seems they were diagonal regarding the fretboard... Of course, it wasn't visibly, but it affected bad intonation... That's my sad story....  :'(

 

You spoke 'bout the same problem? Have I any chances to find good fretted and well-intonated axe in my life?  ??? :-

How can I chek fret work when I'm buyin' a guitar? Get a luthier with me?  ;D

Oh, by the way, I live in Russia. It seems, not so many guys here heard something worth-while about PLEK.  ;D

 

Wait 4 your posts.......

[Newk]

Oh, forgot to answer....

How can I order H535 from K-Zoo to Russia? 

Or, maybe better to buy used?

[111518]

Newk:

Sounds like your fret problems go far beyond those usually encountered --usually bad frets mean poorly seated, poorly dressed, rough ends on unbound necks, sometimes a lack of care in leveling the board before installation, etc.  I think correcting for improperly sawn fret slots would be nearly impossible without replacing the fingerboard itself, and that's no easy task.

 

Others might know more about buying Heritage from Russia.  All I can recommend is buying from a reputable dealer, and there are a couple of threads about Heritage dealers on this site.

 

Kuz and Gitfiddler:

As for the body size of 535/555 and 335/45/55 ... I find it interesting that some are so committed to the idea that the Heritage is exactly like the Gibson.  It may be made on the same machines (but machines and patterns wear), and it may be made in the same way (same production techniques), but the guitars are not manufactured to the same specs.  The Heritage guys, it seems to me, are pretty up front about the fact that they are not creating reproductions.  I double checked with calipers and rule, lest my impression be wrong.  (OK, so my grades are in and spring semester doesn't start until week after next, so I have a little break ..., if clearly no life.)   

 

My Heritage H535 is actually a tad thicker than the spec of 1 1/2 --maybe 1 9/16ths, and

My 1970 Gibson 355 (Square label, Union made in Kalamazoo) is a little thinner than the current gibson spec of 1 3/4, maybe 1 11/16 ...so this leaves an eight of an inch.  When I set my caliper to the depth of the Gibson, transfered it to the same spot on the heritage, I could slide a quarter and a dime between the 355 dimension and the heritage.  (I think the multiple binding on the 355 actually reduces the dimension at the edge the slightest amount --it is scraped below the wood.  This is, after all, one of those sloppy Norlin Gibsons).  I think this accounts in part for my impression there was more difference.

 

Measuring length, from the joint between neck and body to the end by strap pin, the Gibson is also longer by a quarter of an inch. 

 

I don't have a recent Gibson, but I do have an early 90's Nashville-made historic reissue of an Epi Riviera (headstock stamped Made in USA).  I think this almost certainly has a body made by the same machines used to make 335s, at least before production was moved to Memphis.  This guitar is the full 1 3/4 thick, so a strong 16th thicker than the 355, and 3/16th thicker than the Heritage. (three quarters --the coin-- between the caliper set for the epi and the 535 )  The guitar is also slightly longer than the 355, so significantly longer than the heritage. 

 

I would speculate that the original patterns/gigs used to make the 335 line, which began at a full 1 3/4 thick, had worn down by 1970 and have continued to wear down in the thirty years since.  Heritage recognized this by spec-ing the thickness at 1 1/2, even though it is actually a little more, when all sources I can find (Gruhn, Duchossoir) list the 335/45/55 at 1 3/4s.  (Or maybe heritage just decided they liked it thinner, made for more efficient use of wood, or something!)  Same with length, though I don't have a good way to match the measurement in the specs with the neck on the body.  Actually, I think the same erosion is apparent in the press mold used to shape the tops on the H535s/550s/555's --they no longer quite match the contours of the older or newer gibsons, but I don't know how you would measure this without some pretty sophisticated instruments or gigs.

 

When Gibson retooled, it seems logical that they restored the 335 patterns to the full dimension.  (I don't know about the Memphis guitars)

 

Any impact on sound?  I doubt it.  Feel?  To me, yes.  The Heritage feels smaller when I have it strapped on.  That's not a problem in and of itself --maybe it will be an advantage in the long run-- but I've "worn" my old 355 for so many hours that it does take a minute to adjust to the difference.  All of this to me is proof that the current Gibson is a new co. and Heritage is the continuation of the Gibson tradition ... though at some point everyone needs to retool.

 

OK, so unless Gibson, authorities on Gibson, Heritage, and my calipers are wrong, the 535 is indeed thinner than the 335.  Next is digital calipers and cameras at 10 paces. 

[Kuz]

Bottom line is Heritage's 535 & 555 are incredible great guitars. Like I said I owned a '65 335 & a '98 555 at the same time and I really didn't have a noticeable difference in feel.

 

Sounds like I was wrong and I'm sorry about the misinformation.

 

Bottom line for me is my Heritage 555s kick the crap out of any recent made 335 or 355!

 

Just my opinion, I do appreciate the eduction & dialogue

[111518]

Please don't apologize... all in good fun, and gave me a chance to check my impression about how these guitars differed.  Again, I've never had the money to collect guitars, but I've worked in a shop and had to deal with collectors, so I have a sort of compulsion to get the details right.  It can make a lot of difference in the world of vintage guitars, where there are far more early 60s custom color strats now than there ever were in the early 60s --and where there is almost as much competition about knowledge as there is about owning guitars.  On this forum, it's about thinking about Heritages, how they compare, how they've evolved.

[JohnCovach]

Without measuring, I would have guessed that the dimensions on most of the parallel Heritage-Gibson models are different.  The 575 is the most obvious one, but the 535 seems smaller than my 345 as well.  I'm not sure about the Les Pauls, but I wouldn't be surprised if there are minor differences there as well.  I think this may have something to do with a sense that the new dimensions are improvements, and/or were steps taken to avoid litigation taken when the company was launched in 1985 (remember that Gibson had sued Japanese makers only a few years earlier).

[111518]

Good point, John.  I've wondered about the "lawsuit" impact on Heritage specs and design as well.  Maybe the threat had something to do with the decision to use the schaller bridges and tailpieces that provoke such mixed opinions.  The hardware certainly distinguishes the Heritage Guitars from Gibson, and one of the ways Ibanez responded to the lawsuit was to change its hardware, as well as its headstocks and the inlay patterns. 

 

Whatever the motivation for the changes in specs, I think the result is some welcome new options, particular in archtops.  I'm 5'7," and a 17 inch Gibson archtop, like an L-5, has always been uncomfortable for me to play, even sitting down.  (I owned a beautiful Super 400 for years that I had lucked into as a teenager, but it was like a piece of sculpture or something --at 18" WAY too big for me to play, so I finally sold it.)  The substantial difference in depth 3 3/8" v. 3" means that I can play Heritage's 17" guitars, and I own a laminated 550 and a solid Eagle Classic.  Although Gibson now offers more choices, until Heritage began production there just weren't such archtops available, especially on the used market where I've mostly had to find guitars I could afford. 

 

Did the Heritage guys just recognize that archtops need not be so huge, since the original motivation for that size --to be heard acoustically over a big band-- no longer applied, or because they wanted to avoid a lawsuit?  Did they negotiate with Gibson in any way?  Anyone know? 

[Kuz]

I asked Ren on my factory tour and he said they only had to change the Headstock & truss rod cover.

[JohnCovach]

That's what I've always heard too.  The 575 is not only thinner than a 175, but the F holes are also much bigger, and the neck sits directly on the top instead of hanging over it.  As a solid wood instrument, it's actually much more like an L4CES than a 175.  The 535 is a little smaller (as has been noted) and the shoulders are rounded differently--more like the earliest 335's.  The 335 has the jack on the top, while the 535 has it on the rim (the 575 has the jack at the strap button).  These are mostly small differences and improvements, and Heritage guitars are clearly an extension of Gibson designs (that's the "hertage," after all).  I've never understood the Schaller hardware, though, especially since in the mid 1980s, everybody was already fussy about bridges, pickups and tailpieces--souping them up and swapping them out.  Why they went with Schaller, I don't know.  It's always seemed like a mistake to me.

[Newk]

But what's wrong with Shallers???

[JohnCovach]

As can be seen from the other thread, there are people who like the Schaller hardware.  I have left the Schaller pickups in a couple of my Heritages, and have kept one of the stop tailpieces.  But the general perception is--and has been for many years--that Schaller is the "budget" alternative to other hardware.  For guitars like Heritages that improve on Gibson designs, the Schaller stuff seem second-rate to many guitarists.  I hasten to add that this perception may be wrong, but it's the way most potential Heritage owners would see it.  Given that widely shared perception, I've never understood why Heritage has stuck with Schaller.  You'll note that Jay Wolfe's standard upgrades include different hardware; I'm sure that's because he has found that this appeals to a lot of customers.