Heritage vs Hamer, fair competition?

[Kuz]

Unfortunately this was not my experience with Wolfe. They do seem like nice enough fellas but I honestly feel like they tried to get one over on me with that crap fill job on the nut of my new 575.

 

I wasn't going to be the first.....

[Scooter]

I wasn't going to be the first.....

That's disappointing to hear.

[Thundersteel]

I wasn't going to be the first.....

 

Me, neither!

[Scooter]

Yes, they want to make a profit, of course, but they want to make a profit selling each instrument as long as that instrument meets the expectations of its particular company. If it doesn't meet those expectations it gets sent back. A guitar store has a reputation and Wolfe has its good reputation for a reason.

 

So it stands to reason that if one buys a Heritage from Wolfe they can be assured they are getting the "nice" stuff .

Well, I guess that naive soapbox has been shattered...shadoobee.

[Steiner]

I wasn't going to be the first.....

 

That's the sound I hear every time I put my ear to the ground.

[Sparky]

The best guitars are made by whichever company gives me a free one.

[smurph1]

You may get a few slightly biased opinions here...

NO!!!! REALLY?!!!

[Mikenov]

I played with a guy once who had a Hamer DC guitar . That guy had good tone. I would love to try out a Hamer.

[smurph1]

Not to be disrespectful but, my Dad used to say "Opinions are like noses, everyone has one" Just play what you love, and everything else will take care of itself..ROCK ON..

[proxmax]

I played with a guy once who had a Hamer DC guitar . That guy had good tone. I would love to try out a Hamer.

 

you should definately do that!

-klaus

 

if my just ordered h150 is as good as my hamers

i will love it.

[jaywolfe]

Well, I guess that naive soapbox has been shattered...shadoobee.

 

OUCH- that stings. Seriously however we "reject" & return Heritage's that we cannot deliver with confidence. I usually see these rejects offered at other Heritage dealers. We get TONS of compliments on our initial setups..............AND............I was lectured by Heritage owners just last week about our "unrealistic" setup expectations. It's impossible to make "everyone" completely happy with a long distance setup, and I'm certain you all know this- based on excellent comments posted here within this & other threads on this subject. BTW- Heritage uses super glue- as do Earlywine & almost EVERY Luthier.

The gist of Heritage's admonition to me last week is that their setup measurements (1929 Gibson spec???) are time proven and acceptable for "all" other Heritage dealers- Wolfe is the "only dealer complaining." BTW- Heritage DO NOT use their now dormant PLEK machine and haven't for over a year now. We are told that we can "no longer" return guitars to them with uneven frets, and if Wolfe and it's customers wish to have action below their (1920's Gibson) specs- it's on us (actually YOU). NOW- Wolfe Guitars have been doing this for many, many years- so this is nothing new. We address uneven frets daily & have no problem doing it. We just expect to be partially reimbursed for it, and this is where we seem to have a problem. NOT a new problem, but a 20 year problem. Things were better during their PLEK days, where we at least had level frets to begin with- but this is no more. BTW- If you're particular about the guitar's nut- plan to replace it on every Heritage. as they will not change this. Good enough is good enough in Kalamazoo. They make GREAT guitars, but the nut is not their area of expertise.(old Gibson problem area)

We're NOT perfect & don't pretend to be, but we do try very hard with little assistance from the guys in Kalamazoo. Those guys, whom we love & support- have old Gibson habits & they will not change. I play a Heritage & LOVE them. But to be clear- this is NOT anything close to a "naive soapbox" as we have returned to Heritage 8 guitars in just the past 10 weeks. This alarming fact can be verified so easily with a phone call. We're in hot water because of this issue, BUT we are in fact stocking and selling better Heritage Guitars, based on Heritage's own words & actions.

I hope this clears up a few things and I'm available to answer any question by telephone or direct e-mail, or right here.

Jay Wolfe

[barrymclark]

Well, I guess that naive soapbox has been shattered...shadoobee.

 

 

OUCH- that stings. Seriously however we "reject" & return Heritage's that we cannot deliver with confidence. I usually see these rejects offered at other Heritage dealers. We get TONS of compliments on our initial setups..............AND............I was lectured by Heritage owners just last week about our "unrealistic" setup expectations. It's impossible to make "everyone" completely happy with a long distance setup, and I'm certain you all know this- based on excellent comments posted here within this & other threads on this subject. BTW- Heritage uses super glue- as do Earlywine & almost EVERY Luthier.

The gist of Heritage's admonition to me last week is that their setup measurements (1929 Gibson spec???) are time proven and acceptable for "all" other Heritage dealers- Wolfe is the "only dealer complaining." BTW- Heritage DO NOT use their now dormant PLEK machine and haven't for over a year now. We are told that we can "no longer" return guitars to them with uneven frets, and if Wolfe and it's customers wish to have action below their (1920's Gibson) specs- it's on us (actually YOU). NOW- Wolfe Guitars have been doing this for many, many years- so this is nothing new. We address uneven frets daily & have no problem doing it. We just expect to be partially reimbursed for it, and this is where we seem to have a problem. NOT a new problem, but a 20 year problem. Things were better during their PLEK days, where we at least had level frets to begin with- but this is no more. BTW- If you're particular about the guitar's nut- plan to replace it on every Heritage. as they will not change this. Good enough is good enough in Kalamazoo. They make GREAT guitars, but the nut is not their area of expertise.(old Gibson problem area)

We're NOT perfect & don't pretend to be, but we do try very hard with little assistance from the guys in Kalamazoo. Those guys, whom we love & support- have old Gibson habits & they will not change. I play a Heritage & LOVE them. But to be clear- this is NOT anything close to a "naive soapbox" as we have returned to Heritage 8 guitars in just the past 10 weeks. This alarming fact can be verified so easily with a phone call. We're in hot water because of this issue, BUT we are in fact stocking and selling better Heritage Guitars, based on Heritage's own words & actions.

I hope this clears up a few things and I'm available to answer any question by telephone or direct e-mail, or right here.

Jay Wolfe

Well said.

[jaywolfe]

Well said.

 

Thanks- But I now realize just how far OFF topic I was with that rant!!!

Hamer vs Heritage- so different. Hamer are perhaps the finest made & finished "electric" guitars ever made- best fit & finish, best design, best craftsmanship, best (by a mile) neck/body joint, pretty nice hardware, gorgeous binding, the best finished nut of 'em all (for you nut nutz), fair prices, near perfect setups- or pretty much all the important stuff Heritage doesn't care about. Negatives are Poly "plasticized laquer" finish albeit a truly fine finish- the very best of it's nature I've seen, awkward pickup option policy, large peghead (smaller pegheads= less mass, more sustain & bigger note bloom), NOW fairly expensive guitars (thanks Fender).

Heritage's strong suits are many & I play Heritage's. They're glitchy, & require some minor tweaks, but they're like new-old guitars, with that vintage feel & tone. I "could" be happy with a Hamer, but Heritage's just fit my style & I simply don't mind their little niggling human tracks. I love what they're about & LOVE the tones I get from my Heritage's. Both fine tools, both USA made "small" shop makers.

I've ridden Ducati motorcycles for years, have 3 now & love them and have suffered with, dealt with & solved many Italian niggles, erratic build quality (improved GREATLY when a Texas Co. bought the company in '95- now gone) and slip shod Engineering (peeling cylinder chrome, colletts anyone? tricky wiring?) for decades. My next bike purchase?.....Ducati.

 

Jay Wolfe ( Dainese flame suit on)

[Spectrum13]

Thanks Jay, that sound about right. If you buy an Italian bike, don't expect a BMW. No way could you crack the nitro to replace the factory nut and not get cussed at for selling damaged goods. If you own a Ducati or a Jag, better have a good mechanic.

[proxmax]

lots of information - thx.

this was what i wanted to get.

keep on....

 

-klaus

[Kuz]

With all the respect to Jay (and I have bought 3 Heritage Guitars from him), I don't see this horrible quality from my other dealer. I have bought 6 guitars from Hauer music in Dayton and short of a quick truss rod tweak they were at least as nice as the one from Jay.

 

I also don't hear Hauer Music bad mouthing Heritage quality.

 

Hey, we all concede that Heritage nuts are well below average, but other than that I have seen the level of QC increase at Heritage in the last year and a half.

 

Bashing Heritage is not a way to sell more guitars, setting realistic expectations is. This will certainly decrease the perception of Heritage and drive more newbies to Gibson.

 

Thanks for the info (more than I probably needed to hear about the internal skirmish) and I think it helped determine where I will buy my next guitar from.

 

BTW, I'll let Rob report back how all 8 of my Heritages "play awful" at 3.5 16ths (with my quick adjustment from a 1920s Gibson setup).

 

Sorry for the rant, but I am just trying to post my honest opinion of the other side of the coin. I have been accused of being overly passionate of my Heritage guitars, and to that I answer "Guilty as charged". Hope I don't offend anyone here, I just try to speak from my heart and speak honestly.

[Kuz]

With all the respect to Jay (and I have bought 3 Heritage Guitars from him), I don't see this horrible quality from my other dealer. I have bought 6 guitars from Hauer music in Dayton and short of a quick truss rod tweak they were at least as nice as the one from Jay.

 

I also don't hear Hauer Music bad mouthing Heritage quality.

 

Hey, we all concede that Heritage nuts are well below average, but other than that I have seen the level of QC increase at Heritage in the last year and a half.

 

Bashing Heritage is not a way to sell more guitars, setting realistic expectations is. This will certainly decrease the perception of Heritage and drive more newbies to Gibson.

 

Thanks for the info (more than I probably needed to hear about the internal skirmish) and I think it helped determine where I will buy my next guitar from.

 

BTW, I'll let Rob report back how all 8 of my Heritages "play awful" at 3.5 16ths (with my quick adjustment from a 1920s Gibson setup).

 

Sorry for the rant, but I am just trying to post my honest opinion of the other side of the coin. I have been accused of being overly passionate of my Heritage guitars, and to that I answer "Guilty as charged". Hope I don't offend anyone here, I just try to speak from my heart and speak honestly.

 

My emotions might have gotten the best of me. I tried to delete this post, but we can't I guess.

 

Wolfe guitars is a very good guitar store and it is good they are looking out for their customers.

 

As I said I have bought 3 Heritage guitars from them. I feel Wolfe has done at least as much to put Heritage on the map as Heritage has done making Wolfe their largest dealer.

 

IMHO, Heritage guitars are the finest VINTAGE SOUNDING guitar made.

 

Please forgive my earlier emotional rant. I have had a recent family crisis and it has obviously bleed over to my recent posts.

 

You ALL mean very much to me and I value EVERYONE'S OPINION.

[fxdx99]

I have been accused of being overly passionate of my Heritage guitars, and to that I answer "Guilty as charged"...

 

...My emotions might have gotten the best of me.

 

You ALL mean very much to me and I value EVERYONE'S OPINION.

 

smile - now THERE's our Kuz! (Hey - hope all's okay on your end, buddy!!)

 

Jay - long time no see 'round here. Thanks for weighing in - enjoyed the read, very interesting. And sounds like you and Peter Egan have at least a couple things in common...

 

Sure, Hamer compared to Heritage is actually a pretty logical compare given that they're both alternates to the 'big 2' and overlap some on the solid body designs. Guess I'm pretty much in the camp of most Heritage players - the history, american made, vintage design and sound make Heritage guitars what they are. My '02 535 (new from Jay) is one of my all time most favorite guitars (after I swapped the pickups (personal preference) and up'd the string gage which required a nut adjust anyway) But man, it looks, feels, and sounds WONDERFUL!! As does my 150 and 555.

 

I've a buddy that's as nuts about Hamer as I am about Heritage and his guitars all look, play and sound fine. Not as good as my Heritages (he disagrees), but good enough I suppose. But thought we agreed that Heritage is 'when good isn't good enough'...

[Jazzpunk]

Well, I guess that naive soapbox has been shattered...shadoobee.

 

 

OUCH- that stings. Seriously however we "reject" & return Heritage's that we cannot deliver with confidence. I usually see these rejects offered at other Heritage dealers. We get TONS of compliments on our initial setups..............AND............I was lectured by Heritage owners just last week about our "unrealistic" setup expectations. It's impossible to make "everyone" completely happy with a long distance setup, and I'm certain you all know this- based on excellent comments posted here within this & other threads on this subject. BTW- Heritage uses super glue- as do Earlywine & almost EVERY Luthier.

The gist of Heritage's admonition to me last week is that their setup measurements (1929 Gibson spec???) are time proven and acceptable for "all" other Heritage dealers- Wolfe is the "only dealer complaining." BTW- Heritage DO NOT use their now dormant PLEK machine and haven't for over a year now. We are told that we can "no longer" return guitars to them with uneven frets, and if Wolfe and it's customers wish to have action below their (1920's Gibson) specs- it's on us (actually YOU). NOW- Wolfe Guitars have been doing this for many, many years- so this is nothing new. We address uneven frets daily & have no problem doing it. We just expect to be partially reimbursed for it, and this is where we seem to have a problem. NOT a new problem, but a 20 year problem. Things were better during their PLEK days, where we at least had level frets to begin with- but this is no more. BTW- If you're particular about the guitar's nut- plan to replace it on every Heritage. as they will not change this. Good enough is good enough in Kalamazoo. They make GREAT guitars, but the nut is not their area of expertise.(old Gibson problem area)

We're NOT perfect & don't pretend to be, but we do try very hard with little assistance from the guys in Kalamazoo. Those guys, whom we love & support- have old Gibson habits & they will not change. I play a Heritage & LOVE them. But to be clear- this is NOT anything close to a "naive soapbox" as we have returned to Heritage 8 guitars in just the past 10 weeks. This alarming fact can be verified so easily with a phone call. We're in hot water because of this issue, BUT we are in fact stocking and selling better Heritage Guitars, based on Heritage's own words & actions.

I hope this clears up a few things and I'm available to answer any question by telephone or direct e-mail, or right here.

Jay Wolfe

 

Jay I appreciate your candor on this matter though I stand by all that I have posted regarding my recent purchase. Whether the handy work on that nut (deemed a 'travesty' by my luthier) was done at the Heritage factory or not, it was really awful and should have been replaced prior to my receiving the guitar. Period.

 

I do not want to post on this issue publicly any further as it does not seem appropriate and I am certainly not out to damage anybody's reputation. Even while outlining my frustrations I have been extremely conscious of stating that I felt that both Graham and Jay seemed like good guys based on my interaction with them. If anybody has any questions or comments regarding the validity of anything I've stated, please do not hesitate to contact me in private. I will be more than happy to answer all questions or concerns.

 

Finally, I'd like to apologize to everyone here on the HOC if my posts regarding my new Heritage were offensive. This was an expensive purchase for me though so I do not apologize for my honest feedback. My posts were never meant to upset anybody!

 

After bringing my 575 up to snuff I can tell you that it is a damn fine guitar and will serve me well for many, many years to come!

[Rude Dog]

Alright, Are you saying they super glue the nut in?

 

I know super glue is used by a lot of luthiers and repair persons to do certain REPAIRS; haven't heard of anyone using it on a build, or to secure a nut.

Yikes.

[barrymclark]

...smaller pegheads= less mass, more sustain & bigger note bloom...

 

Jay Wolfe ( Dainese flame suit on)

Do I hear this argument coming again?

[golferwave]

I have replaced the nut on every guitar I have with a bone nut. This allows getting rid of the junk (my opinion) plastic nuts and setting up the guitar properly. The strings bind in the plastic slots and I don't care how much nut sauce you use they don't stay in tune properly. This change has occurred on every Heritage and Gibson guitar I've bought. Should we have to do this? Hell no! They should come from the factory with a properly cut bone nut, but I love the guitars so I put out the bucks to do it.

[golferwave]

My emotions might have gotten the best of me. I tried to delete this post, but we can't I guess.

 

Wolfe guitars is a very good guitar store and it is good they are looking out for their customers.

 

As I said I have bought 3 Heritage guitars from them. I feel Wolfe has done at least as much to put Heritage on the map as Heritage has done making Wolfe their largest dealer.

 

IMHO, Heritage guitars are the finest VINTAGE SOUNDING guitar made.

 

Please forgive my earlier emotional rant. I have had a recent family crisis and it has obviously bleed over to my recent posts.

 

You ALL mean very much to me and I value EVERYONE'S OPINION.

 

 

You're among friends here Kuz. We all get a bit emotional and rant a little from time to time. I've had some crisis in my life lately as you all know with a recent job loss/new job and loss of my best friend. Sometimes we pop off a little. The best thing here is that we all truly respect one another and I have never seen any personal insults. Most all of our newer members notice and comment on that.

[111518]

I've never owned a Hamer, but I do remember how impressed I was with the first sunburst that I saw at the end of the 70s. The owner of the shop where I had worked brought one back from NAM, and it was a really big deal ... the Gibsons and Fenders and even Martins of the time were incredibly crappy guitars, and there seemed to be no American guitars in even the same league as Ibanez. The sunburst took the basic features of a Gibson in a guitar that exuded quality. At the time, it seemed much needed proof that an American co. could still design and build a decent guitar.

 

As for Jay's comments on Heritage ...thanks for the honesty. The fret problems have been part of the "buzz" (pun acknowledged) about Heritage from the time I became aware of the brand, so I'm glad to see Jay talk about it and relate his efforts to push the company to improve their standards. I think all Heritage owners owe Jay thanks his attention to quality and to consumer preference re. hardware, pickups, etc. I think his integrity and taste has had a lot to do with keeping Heritage going without advertising and in competition with a re-invigorated Gibson. Thanks, Jay. I just wish you had been successful in moderating the price increase. I still email Jay on occasion, but the sad fact is that I'm now priced out of the market for new Heritage guitars.

[brentrocks]

I have owned a lot of different American Made guitars, Fenders, Gibsons, EBMM, Kramer, Charvel and of course...HERITAGE

 

i think as a whole the American made guitars are just better quality...i have never owned a Hamer....but i have heard a lot of good about them. I think i would like to have a Hamer 4-digit Explorer