cod65 Posted January 19, 2008 Posted January 19, 2008 I want to start a campaign to bring back the 'firebird' based design. Anybody care to be a signatory on my petition ?? I wonder how many they could sell. They prolly still have the templates ... Anybody ? with p-90's ? lefty option ? reverse ? If I'm not mistaken, Jay Wolfe is largely responsible for a return of the 137 style, with p90's, so I was just thinkin' ..... 8)
JohnCovach Posted January 19, 2008 Posted January 19, 2008 Count me in. I vote for the reverse with banjo tuners.
AnH555 Posted January 19, 2008 Posted January 19, 2008 There's a picture and description of it in the ebay auction "Heritage Guitar Bass Catalog Brochure 1993". And no, it's not my auction.
111518 Posted January 20, 2008 Posted January 20, 2008 It would be great if Heritage developed an efficient order system that would allow them to make small "bespoke" runs of guitars such as this. For me, the Firebird design was always intriguing visually, and for years I thought I wanted one --big Gatemouth Brown fan, and big Motown studio band fan, and, though it may sound weird, a Firebird w mini-buckers was often the guitar that fit in between the tele and the L5 in the Motown three-guitar arrangements. Then, when Gibson came out with the first reissues, I finally had a chance to play one, and it was just too big and awkward for me, esp. standing up. (I'm 5'7"). There is a LOT of body south of the stop/tailpiece, and it hangs strangely (for me). I understand why Gibson designed the "studio" firebird ... to tap into interest in the design but to pare down the size, which probably has always limited the appeal. Unfortunately the result looks like gumbi, or the rebirth (night of the living dead) of the RD. And with reg. humbuckers and no neck through, what's the point? Maybe size is why the Texas guys (Gatemouth, Winter) liked the original ... "I see miles and miles of ...mahogany." It would be great if Heritage brought it back, but play a Firebird before you buy, esp. if you are vertically challenged like me. I still love the look, and the neck through, and even the banjo tuners ...but it most definitely did not make me feel cool when I strapped it on and tried to play it.
Kazwell Posted January 20, 2008 Posted January 20, 2008 Here's the best image I could find on the net: What I like about the Firebird and the same goes for the Explorer as well is the "method to the madness" as far as the design. The portion of wood that rests under your right elbow allows you to actually force the guitar back with your right inner/upper arm while playing hence pushing the neck forward allowing you to very the pressure/angle of the fretboard against your fingers. Always liked the design for this reason, but never owned one-couldn't get past the way they set while playing in a seated position.
yoslate Posted January 20, 2008 Posted January 20, 2008 Reverse Firebird.... Hmmmm.... Ebony board, trapezoid or block inlay, the original style headstock with banjo tuners, to be sure! With the kind of lumber Heritage has...in some of those finishes.... And yep, yep, yep...P-90's.... Yowzers!!! 8)
SouthpawGuy Posted January 20, 2008 Posted January 20, 2008 Reverse Firebird.... Hmmmm.... Ebony board, trapezoid or block inlay, the original style headstock with banjo tuners, to be sure! With the kind of lumber Heritage has...in some of those finishes.... And yep, yep, yep...P-90's.... Yowzers!!! 8) I vote for all of the above ... with f-holes.
Thundersteel Posted January 20, 2008 Posted January 20, 2008 How 'bout the Explorer, too? Or a Flying V?
High Flying Bird Posted January 20, 2008 Posted January 20, 2008 My first electric was an old non-reverse firebird with 3 P-90s. I didn't know what I had, plus it was worn out by the original owner storing it in his attic for over 10 years. Here in the deep south that isn't the ideal storage. It had the old style trem and the slide switch. I knew it was a rare "bird" but it was too abused for me to come to grips with. The neck was snaked real bad. Anyway I traded it and never looked back...until about 20 years later and I saw Stevie Winwood playing a funky green non-reversed on a Traffic video. Ever since I have wanted to someday own a decent version on that old guitar. I would like to see a Heritage Firebird in a wooden finish, stained not painted. They could make a Firebird that would stand out some much more than Gibson could. If I went to Jay's site and saw a reversed Heritage H-357 with the banjo tuners, two mini-humbuckers, neck like a 535 with trap inlays, a bigsby and a wood grain with a lot of character I would be calling Graham first thing begging him to trade starting with the H-137 and possibly later involving the ASB H-535. Maybe Heritage could give the finish a little extra chestnut coloring around the tail end of the guitar and call it the Redtail, like the hawk. That would be cool too.
squawken Posted January 20, 2008 Posted January 20, 2008 How 'bout the Explorer, too? Or a Flying V? Absolutely ditto on that. A Flying V would be cool. Michael Schenker black and white!
Xstian67 Posted January 20, 2008 Posted January 20, 2008 Hi guys, You're crazy. Don't you think it would be time for Heritage to develop his own designs ? Aren't you aware that all the Heritage history was the history of a follower ? Always relating to the past ! (even the name of the products were related to Gibson !) (Even the name Heritage was a wrong choice !) And can't you agree with the fact that when you follow, one thing is sure, you can't be the number one ? The more the Heritage guitars were one of a kind, like the Sweet 16, the more they were outstanding guitars... OUT standing ! You can't build your own name when you are always relating to Gibson... Check out the e-bay descriptions, it's always the same story : Gibson, Gibson, Gibson... Everytime someone talks about Heritage, he's making a really effective advertising for Gibson ! (after all, there surely is a good reason why the number 1 is the number 1...) This is a SHAME ! Although there is a huge difference : plain wood vs. laminate. Handworking vs. CNC machines. Customized products vs. mass production... And so on, and so on... I wish I'd been the Heritage marketing manager in 1985... The first one that would have said : "let's do a Firebird", I would have fired him immediatly ! (sorry, I feel very angry...) Best regards ! Christian.
Kazwell Posted January 20, 2008 Posted January 20, 2008 This brings an interestng question to mind. Since were not talking G-word land here where they have to hold 25 high level corporate meetings to decide if they can hold meetings to discuss introducing or re-introducing various models to their line. And while Heritage is still considered a custom shop for all practical purposes. Even though the H-357 hasn't been made as a production guitar in years, what is to prevent them from fulfilling s customer's (a very patient customer of course) request who wants to order one? The folks that built the orginal H-357 are still there. No machine set ups-I mean, wouldn't it just be a matter of them pulling a slab of mahogany out of the pile and taking it over to the sawing table? OK OK, I would presume it would be more involved than this, or would it? And for that matter, I wouldn't see why they couldn't then custom paint it to accomodate someone like High Flying Bird (btw HFB, really liked the "Redtail" idea-very imaginitive!) I realize what I presented here will raise more questions than answers. but as a custom shop-shouldn't they in theory be able to fulfill a request like this as opposed to a customer waiting around for them to deicde if it is worth it for them to produce a limited run as 111518 metioned earlier? Just something to think about.
yoslate Posted January 20, 2008 Posted January 20, 2008 Being more of a traditionalist, don't have to have one of the more exotic body shapes, a la Firebird, but I do like that one. And as I think about it, it's a really cool guitar for some of the less traditional finishes, some of those finishes which didn't do so well in the recent poll. I'm thinking white opaque, red opaque, orange translucent, emerald green, either of the blues, would look terrific with black headstock and pickguard, nickle hardware, black P-90's. ...where'd I put Jay's number???
cod65 Posted January 20, 2008 Author Posted January 20, 2008 ... in a good way. but the thing about the 357 style is it has also a history with single coils. if I'm not mistaken, It has a distinctive tone( southern rock, Skunk Baxter ?- I'm definitely gonna look into more Clarence Gatemouth now ... ). I'm a lefty, and they were always scarce, so it's true I'm not sure if I would find the body shape 'tiresome'. It's really a 'stadium guitar' .... good for runnin' round a 60 ft stage with a nice mane of long hair. I would buy outright. ps.- the 'rd' maybe didn't work cause it was thicker? and boring piece of wood?, and some had Moog active circuits .... it needs to be thin slab body like the recent 137's - the wood exists ..... mahogany ? I'm talking out my hat. good day!
cod65 Posted January 20, 2008 Author Posted January 20, 2008 I vote for all of the above ... with f-holes. were those a 'decal' applied to some g-word equivalents 'type I thru VII' blah blah .... dust of the jigs!
111518 Posted January 20, 2008 Posted January 20, 2008 Cod65: Gatemouth Brown is definitely worth checking out. I got to see him live a bunch of times in the late 70s/early 80s, and, unlike some of the blues "legends" that I saw then, he came out and worked. Had a very hot band of young guys who pushed him, and he seemed to love to push back. He had a fascinating style ... played jazzy, jump blues stuff, with long, flowing, sophisticated lines, but played mostly with a capo and in first position. I don't usually put those things together, but he did. The recordings are good, but like so many of these guys, nothing like the shows. I heard that he kept playing until just days before he recently died. Back to Firebird... Here's the danger in my mind. This guitar sells new for less than 600 bucks. Eastwood has an interesting strategy of designing guitars that reflect lesser-known "classic" designs, like Mosrite, and having them built in small runs in Asia, then selling direct. I haven't bought any, but some of them are tempting --for example, they are doing that Guild bass with the scroll headstock and through body f-holes that Danko played on The Band in Concert. gtr_SunB-stormbird.jpg gtr_SunB-stormbird.jpg_thumb
111518 Posted January 20, 2008 Posted January 20, 2008 Sorry, meant to hit preview and hit post... My point was that I'm not sure how much demand for Firebirds is left in between the Gibson reissues --new, used, and custom shop-- and emerging marketers who are using the flexibility of CNC to order and import small runs of hip designs --thinking of Gatemouth made me think of the Eastwood, which is basically his guitar, a nonreverse with 2 P-90s. (I notice also the Eastwoods are designed with set MAPLE necks, which I'm guessing is a conscious attempt to address the tendency for headstock breaks with the longer headstock, and might also help with balance --the Eastwood guy is not stupid.) I'm not arguing the Eastwood is as nice a guitar as a Heritage, but for a player after the look and sound, or for a second guitar, this would be tempting. I don't agree with X-ian67 that Heritage should disconnect from its past --far from it; I think is one of the three legs that keep it in business, the other two being quality and price. The Parson St. address, the founders' roles as preservers of the tradition vs. the Norlin union-busters, and the argument that Heritage is the "real" Gibson is probably their most valuable asset. There are tons of people making V's, and explorers ...of all the exotic Gibson designs the Firebird is probably the best candidate for a limited run, but do it as a special, pre-order custom run for select Heritage customers, and after Yoslate gets his Super.
Kazwell Posted January 21, 2008 Posted January 21, 2008 Cod65:Gatemouth Brown is definitely worth checking out. I got to see him live a bunch of times in the late 70s/early 80s, and, unlike some of the blues "legends" that I saw then, he came out and worked. Had a very hot band of young guys who pushed him, and he seemed to love to push back. He had a fascinating style ... played jazzy, jump blues stuff, with long, flowing, sophisticated lines, but played mostly with a capo and in first position. I don't usually put those things together, but he did. The recordings are good, but like so many of these guys, nothing like the shows. I heard that he kept playing until just days before he recently died. Sorry, but had to put my 2 cents in about Gatemouth. I was playing in a band in the early 80's and we played a club which occasionally brought in some big names -on one occasion they brought in Gatemouth Brown and the owner contacted my band and asked if we could set up our PA for them and the club would pay us around the amount we would make playing. Gatemouth even had his own soundman, so all we had to do was sit at the bar and get drunk (drinks were compt as well) and watch the show and get paid for setting up and breaking down the equipment. A few local players came up to the club to see him play and maybe get the chance to chat with a legend. From what I heard, he was pretty standoffish to put it mildly. I didn't approach him-just not my style. Others did. Someone evidently asked him why he used a capo, and he smiled and said (one of the few words he DID utter evidently) "Keeps me from breaking strings". I believe the consensus at the time was he was kidding or didn't want to give a straight answer to the "punks askin questions". Although looking back, this very well may have been a straight answer. Still not sure though. Take it for what it is worth.
111518 Posted January 21, 2008 Posted January 21, 2008 I never tried to speak to him, but he definitely had the reputation of being ...prideful, obstinate, independent, someone who did not suffer fools gladly, to use that old expression. Some the lyrics to his versions of tunes are gratuitously violent. Don't know that I'd want to hang out with him, but I do like his playing.
Kazwell Posted January 21, 2008 Posted January 21, 2008 I never tried to speak to him, but he definitely had the reputation of being ...prideful, obstinate, independent, someone who did not suffer fools gladly, to use that old expression. Some the lyrics to his versions of tunes are gratuitously violent. Don't know that I'd want to hang out with him, but I do like his playing. Don't get me wrong, he may have left a bad taste in some of the folks mouths who tried to talk to him that night, but I personally didn't have a problem with that. He was there to play-and play he did well, even surprised the crowd with some fiddle playing. If he was a man of few words then thats the way he was. He chose to do his talking with his guitar. I respect that. Guess the main thing I was trying to convey was about the capo. Don't know if you ever heard about it used by him to "keep from breakin strings". From what I saw he did a lot of pull off stuff and the capo provided him the ability to do it in higher registers. He bent strings, but compared to many players, he wasn't as big into it. Perhaps by utilizing the capo and using it to shape his style with pull offs as opposed to more intensive bend work, in a round about way, I could see that it could prevent a player prone to breaking strings, from doing so. Again, nothing against the guy as a person for choosing not to be talkative as that was his nature. That's why despite running across various "celebrities" in the past, I chose to let them be. Some people accuse folks like me of "just being shy". I call it being courteous.
111518 Posted January 21, 2008 Posted January 21, 2008 Here's "Pressure Cooker" (--this Firebird seems to have the mini-buckers)
Kazwell Posted January 21, 2008 Posted January 21, 2008 Here's "Pressure Cooker"(--this Firebird seems to have the mini-buckers) Wow. He was on fire in that performance. Love the sound of those mini humbuckers!!! Karma up for posting this 111518!! That was truly inspiring footage.
Kuz Posted January 21, 2008 Posted January 21, 2008 Hi guys, You're crazy. Don't you think it would be time for Heritage to develop his own designs ? Aren't you aware that all the Heritage history was the history of a follower ? Always relating to the past ! (even the name of the products were related to Gibson !) (Even the name Heritage was a wrong choice !) And can't you agree with the fact that when you follow, one thing is sure, you can't be the number one ? The more the Heritage guitars were one of a kind, like the Sweet 16, the more they were outstanding guitars... OUT standing ! You can't build your own name when you are always relating to Gibson... Check out the e-bay descriptions, it's always the same story : Gibson, Gibson, Gibson... Everytime someone talks about Heritage, he's making a really effective advertising for Gibson ! (after all, there surely is a good reason why the number 1 is the number 1...) This is a SHAME ! Although there is a huge difference : plain wood vs. laminate. Handworking vs. CNC machines. Customized products vs. mass production... And so on, and so on... I wish I'd been the Heritage marketing manager in 1985... The first one that would have said : "let's do a Firebird", I would have fired him immediatly ! (sorry, I feel very angry...) Best regards ! Christian. What new guitars have Fender come up with in the last 50 years that have sold- Strat, Tele, Ok reissue Strat, Tele, Ok artist model Strat, Tele. My point is I think Heritage has every right to point out (exploit if you like) the fact that the Gibby designs were made at Heritage Guitar, that the guys that made those guitars are still at Heritage, the same machines and building processes, and that they, unlike the Gibby assembly line, have true pride in the guitars they make and the name sake for what they used to be. I feel Heritage has been somewhat conscious in improving on the older Gibby models (different demsions, Plek, ect) while maintaining the same build process. "Relic'd" Vintage Reissue guitars is all the crazy from the Fender Custom Shop. I think Heritage should "creatively rename" the '52 LP with p-90s (instead of calling it a 150 with lollar p-90s) and market "The orginators of some of the most classic guitars designs ever introduce the '52 Gold top with p-90' and the '63 semihhollow'. Thus Heritage Guitar is launching The Original Vintage Reissue Series". My point is to market -Heritage used to make them- they still make the same way- and call it the "Vintage Reissue Series Original Masterbuilt Series" This is exactly what Fender does, they have lived in the past for 50 years and just make up new names for reissuing the same design of the Strat & Tele. Just my .02
yoslate Posted January 21, 2008 Posted January 21, 2008 Firebird is probably the best candidate for a limited run, but do it as a special, pre-order custom run for select Heritage customers, and after Yoslate gets his Super. Bless you, my son....
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