Burrell Goovemaster - Resonance on E string

[midirons]

Good morning - I just joined this forum, having been inspired by several Heritage guitars that I've played in the last week. One of the guitars is a Kenny Burrell Groovemaster that really sits well with me and is real joy to play. I have 2 questions.

 

1. The girl in the shop told me that this guitar has a 25.5" scale. I didn't think too much about it, but did notice that it was quite easy to play. The specs say it's 24.75". I guess I can go back and just measure it on Monday. I'm guessing that it is actually a 24.75 unless it was a custom guitar with 25.5. If anyone has one, can you tell me what the scale length is?  I'm just curious about this more than anything. FWIW, I have "Flinstone Fingers" and find that shorter scales a bit easier on long stretches.

 

2. The E (top) string resonates pretty easily, although I could move around a bit reduce the feedback. I know I've had resonance issues with other hollwbody archtops I've owned. There always seems to be a note or 2 that wants to resonate. My question is - Will this be an issue that will be bothersome forever? I don't play at loud volumes, my only audience being the dog.

 

Thanks for your help. (Tried to insert a picture of the dog, but it didn't work. I think I attached it.)

Dec 30 2006 A60 177.jpg

Dec 30 2006 A60 177.jpg_thumb

[SouthpawGuy]

Hi and welcome I'm not sure if I can be of help but here goes ...

Is it the body that is resonating or is it a mechanical problem with the guitar ? Perhaps there is something loose ?

I had a similar problem with a new G-brand 335 some years back where the guitar would vibrate badly on an open E.

I thought at first it was feedback or the pickups, it actually turned out to be the bridge saddles vibrating.

I cured the problem by installing springs in the bridge.

 

Hope this helps.

[yoslate]

midirons:

 

Welcome to the forum!  If you're in the market for a Heritage, this is the place to dig for info.  Many, many knowing players on all the time.  So fire away!  I can't help you with your problem, though.  Sorry.  I hunt for resonating strings!  And the pup...border collie?  The greatest!  Although that one doesn't seem convinced that m7 chord belongs there!      ;D

[midirons]

Thanks, guys. The pup is An Aussie. 85 lbs. Incredibly laid back. Pretty sure he was sloth in his previous life....

 

Let me clear up my "resonating" comment. The E string (I said "top" this morning, I meant "bottom") actually creates feedback through the amp. For example, when I sit just off to side of the amp (tried both a Hughes and Kettner and a Peavy Delta Blues 212) I could just barely pick the E string and would get increasing feedback through the amp. By moving my position, I could reduce the feedback. I'm trying to get some opinions on whether I might end up with feedback issues that are not easily resolved. Hope I didn't confuse you too much. Thanks.

[Kazwell]

My guess is that the frequency created from the low E is hitting a "sweet spot" in the pickup. To decrease the potential for this, I would see about lowering or raising the action on the Low E side of the bridge as well as that PU. May even-and this relates to another post I started, but it would be worth a try to lower the PU screw associated to the Low -E string. Are you happy with the gauge of the strings on the guitar? A lighter or heavier gauge may also fix the problem. Since you don't own the guitar yet, obviously this wouldn't be something you could experiment with until you bought it, although if the shop has an in-house guitar tech or someone they send out to, maybe you could have them have this checked out for you if they see you are serious about the sale.

Hope this helps-although as usual, I hope I didn't create more questions than answers.

Welcome aboard!

[midirons]

Kazwell - Thanks you very much for your insights. I searched the forum for "feedback"  (shoulda done this earlier) and found very helpful information. What it comes down to is that a solid carved top hollowbody will likely feedback - some more so than others. But there are steps that one can take to ameliorate this, such as the one you suggest below. It seems that playing at reasonable ("reasonable" being in the ear of the player) is one of the best solutions. Moving away from the amp helps. I could change the gauge as you suggest. Etc. I found about half dozen possible solutions. Since I don't play at very high volumes, I'm guessing that it won't be a lingering problem. Again, thank so to everyone for your help. If I pull the trigger this week, I'll post some initial thoughts and pics. All the best.

[Gitfiddler]

Hello Midirons and Welcome.  I've wanted to 'test drive' one of Burrell's Groove Masters ever since they came out.  You are the first user/player I've encountered.  (Also you have the first doggy photo on this site! )  If you dig the guitar and do purchase it, I know there are about 20 others here that would love to read your review.  I've read Kenny Burrell's interviews about the concept and was really impressed with it on paper. 

 

Oh, and about the low frequency feedback...that can be managed with a longer cord (to get you away from the speaker and give you more room to find your room's sweet spot);  also, adjust the EQ on your amps by lowering the Bass and Midrange.  Enjoy!

[Thundersteel]

Greetings, midirons! Welcome to our little part of the 'net!

 

That's a cute dog--it looks like he was trying to tell you something!

[ingeneri]

Gitfiddler, do you have a link to any of those KB interviews? I have a Groovemaster on order with Jeff Hale but have only seen the quick blurb on Jay Wolfe's website and the Harmony-Central reviews.

 

For the record, the Groovemaster is a maple laminate archtop with a thin strip (not a block like a 555) running down the middle to reduce feedback.  It has a 16" bout width with a 2.75" depth.  As with most 16" guitars, the standard fret board scale is 23.75" (25.5" is usually reserved for bigger 17" and 18" instruments)

 

Regarding feedback, this is a frequent problem with all archtops. The sixth string (low e) is often the worst culprit and I often have to be careful with it when playing my Super Eagle at loud volumes. Though the whole design of the Groovemaster is to make it more resistant.  What volume are you at when the problem occurs? Or is this more of a mechanical problem that remains even when playing acoustically?

 

Best of luck, let us know whether you end up buying the guitar.

[midirons]

ingeneri  - Thanks for chiming in on this. I read in another post that you had ordered a Groovemaster and wanted to get in touch with you.

 

I was playing at medium volume and got the feed back. At low volumes, there is no feedback. I think what concerned me was that at medium, to even medium-low volumes, I could gently get the string moving and it would just "take off" on its own. I don't believe that there is mechanical problem with the guitar as I played it unplugged for about 10 minutes. The feedback was noticably reduced when I moved away from thr amp. And.... I only play at home.

 

And a little bit of a curve - I should also let you everyone know that there are 2 - 575 mahoganies in the shop and 1 Sweet 16. Neither I nor a friend who was with me could tell the difference between the 575's. One is antique sunburst and the other is also a sunburst, but it's kinda reddish, then lighter red.

 

The Sweet 16 is out my range at about $3,400, but the 575's were quite nice and priced at $2,200. So.... if any of you have experience playing the 575 Mahog, I would appreciate any feedback. The top is carved spruce and back and sides are mahogany. I will get a chance to play them again on Friday, and I'll have to make the ultimate decision.

 

Given that the prices will likely increase, I'd like to make a purchase this week. Thanks to all.

[Gitfiddler]

Ingeneri~ I read the article in one of the more recent 20th Century Guitar Magazines.  I searched for it on their site but it has not come up in their archives yet.  It was a very good article and Kenny was on the cover.

 

Here is the link to the magazine.  They only charge $5 for previous releases, and a real bargain $15 for a year's subscription:

 

http://www.tcguitar.com/index.html

[SouthpawGuy]

Hi midirons ...

I don't have a 575 mahogany but I do have a recently acquired 575 custom with a carved spruce top and Seymour Duncan 59's.

You don't say what amp you were trying the guitar with.

I use it through a Roland Cube 30x and it produces some very usable jazz tones using amp modelling:

 

Roland Jazz Chorus tone --"JC clean"

Fender Twin tone -- "Black panel"

AC30 tone -- "Brit combo"

Bassman tone -- "Tweed"

 

With all of these amp models I get the best jazz tone using the neck pickup with the tone rolled off.

I also have a 535 with SD59's and I have noticed that it actually produces a tighter punchier bottom end tone than the 575, I'm guessing the solid centre block is responsible for that. The 575 is more open and mellow in the bass end.

You say the shop has two 575's -- do they both have the same pickups ?

I have seen some on Jay Wolfes website with a single HRW pickup, two Seth Lovers, or Duncan 59's etc.

Hope this helps.

[midirons]

Southpawguy - Thanks for taking time to provide your thoughts. I believe your 575 has maple back and sides and these have mahogany. Also, I failed to note that these are single pickup 575's which is what I'm looking for.  Both have identical HRW pickups. I would guess that the mahog would be a bit warmer than the maple.

 

I played through a Peavy Delta Blues 210 and a Hughes and Kettner Switchblade 50C. (I sold my Fender Hot Rod Deluxe about 3 years ago, and use my son's Marshall practice amp.) I am planning on purchasing an amp this summer.

 

In any event, the 575 mahog is an awfully nice instrument. Plays quite nicely acoustically. I'm going to play the Groovemaster and the 575's again tomorrow. I'll let you know if I purchase one. Thanks again for your help.