Thundersteel Posted January 22, 2008 Posted January 22, 2008 Hi all, Just got off the phone with Jay, so I apologize for the short notice. Anyway, it turns out that Vince Margol himself (Heritage's new owner/partner/CEO/whatever-they-call-it) is coming to Wolfe Guitars for a visit this Thursday and Friday. They are trying to iron out differences about the big price increases that are either here already, or are forthcoming. I told Jay that "we" as a group were wondering if "they" (Heritage) were even aware of our presence. I presented the fact that it would be nice if they could "check in" on us occasionally for our concerns, opinions, etc. that we "fanatics/fans" may have. Jay said it would be good if I emailed him this info so he could give it to Vince himself. Well, I am seeking YOUR opnions/concerns, etc so I can consolidate them and send them to Jay by Wednesday night. I can only do this on my home computer, so I need your replies by this Wednesday (tomorrow night) at 10 PM EST. Thank you for your support!
tulk1 Posted January 22, 2008 Posted January 22, 2008 Not strictly guitar issue related. But I'd sure be interested in what they plan to do with their web site. Awful as it is. Also, shouldn't the first 338 members of HoC receive lifetime discounts? Also, good job!
yoslate Posted January 22, 2008 Posted January 22, 2008 T-steel: Thanks for the heads up. I certainly have no head for business, but.... One thing that hit me right off the bat, and the forum has addressed this directly, is how many of the Heritage loyal own three, four, five...or more Heritage guitars. This suggests the pool may be a bit deeper than it is wide. That's probably a kind of good news for Heritage, given how broadly competitive the market is. I would hope that, in the restructuring, any new pricing structure for Heritage guitars would be such that loyal multiple purchasers would not be priced out of that kind of ownership. Heritage guitars are a bargain (though still represent a healthy expenditure of one's discretionary income)! I think Mr. Margol should be very careful on rethinking pricing!
squawken Posted January 22, 2008 Posted January 22, 2008 Just a thought, but maybe we want to send him our member list, just to show him there is a group that fiercely loyal to his product. Maybe he takes us into consideration.
Paul P Posted January 22, 2008 Posted January 22, 2008 Perhaps The Administrator should be in on this ? It is after all his house we're talking about Paul P
JohnCovach Posted January 22, 2008 Posted January 22, 2008 I think Vince ought to make a habit of checking this page once a day. There aren't a lot of posts and it only takes a few minutes to keep up. But this forum provides a nice picture of who the most dedicated Heritage owners are. I hope he doesn't think he's too busy to bother with this--you gotta know who your customers are. I'm very interested to hear that one of the steps Heritage will be taking is to raise the prices of the guitars. This is something I'd like to know more about.
SouthpawGuy Posted January 22, 2008 Posted January 22, 2008 I think that it's hard to know if this is good news, or not so good news. On the one hand Heritage have got over a bad patch and are now meeting with their biggest retail outlet to discuss (possible)future plans such as: Optimists Scenario [li]ramping up production[/li][li]reducing lead time on special orders[/li][li]improving their image ( website)[/li][li]new models of guitar[/li][li]modest price increase to cover the above[/li] On the other hand they could be discussing alternative (possible) plans Pessimists Scenario [li]increasing prices by 20-30%[/li][li]reducing the number of models produced[/li][li]reducing the number of custom options and colours[/li][li]increasing the surcharge for special and lefty orders[/li] Just my two cents worth. By the way check out my signature ...
dblazer Posted January 22, 2008 Posted January 22, 2008 Quality control would be my #1 concern. If they keep the quality up I'm good with the prices as long as they don't skyrocket.
soybean Posted January 22, 2008 Posted January 22, 2008 Here's some ideas: [li]Install the standard tunamatic bridges and stop tailpieces and stop using the Schaller roller which aren't so bad but are really unpopular. On the archtops, change the jack to the bottom of the guitar rather than the tail. With a cable in the tail, it's impossible to lean the guitar without taking the cord out or using a guitar stand. Make the necks available in specific shapes as Gibson and Fender do, i.e. flat and wide, C-shape, D-shape, etc. To save money, lose the unatractive wooden pickguards. Continue using the wonderful Plek on all guitars. Please, please do not change the headstock shape. [/li][li][/li]
Thundersteel Posted January 22, 2008 Author Posted January 22, 2008 Perhaps The Administrator should be in on this ? It is after all his house we're talking about. Good point. Hey Admin--what do you think?
rooster Posted January 23, 2008 Posted January 23, 2008 Agreed! Love the headstock shape, myself. Also, allow Sperzel locking tuners as a factory upgrade, possibly with the ivoroid buttons! rooster.
Jim W Posted January 23, 2008 Posted January 23, 2008 Heritage reading and posting here? Hmmm... Diana Gretsch posted for a while on the Gretsch pages, and sadly it turned into an opportunity for anyone with a perceived slight or "quality concern" to dump on her. In turn, she quit posting and it closed the door on a valuable inside connection. It was not that the majority did it, just a small minority; but it ruined it none the less. Some Gretsch employees still participate on the Gretsch pages, but it's done with great care. There have been "get togethers" sponsored by Gretsch, at a dealer for example, with some deals on gear for forum members, and there is a link to the Gretsch Pages on Gretsch's website. I don't know of any other manufacturer that really actively participates in a NON COMPANY run forum. Other than goodwill, what return is there on the investment for a manufacturer? Many other forums have tried to get a special "XXXXXXXX Forum" model guitar made, but never seem to get agreement on model, features, color, etc., and not enough members participate in the end to justify the run. I could perhaps see a link/emailed coupon type of deal that would allow a "contributing member" to obtain a small discount on accessories or fad goods; but again what is the return on that investment for Heritage? I could see an open house type of annual get together/factory tour/jam. I could also envision something like G****ns defunct "Custom Direct" program, where for a registration fee you could deal directly with Heritage to create your own "customized" guitar. This seems like a natural extension of Heritage's almost "boutique" status. I'd ask Mr. Margol what are his plans for marketing the product; and how will he energize the brand to increase interest in it. If Heritage builds a great product, but 99% of players don't get a chance to see it, hear about it, A/B it against other makes, and get an informed description of it then I wonder how Heritage will be able to sustain/grow in the market place. With G****ns recent decision to not produce any one-off custom guitars (i.e. a minimum run of 25 identical guitars is required) I would ask if Heritage is prepared to fill this vacuum with "US made Lacquer finished high quality guitars", and if not, what is the alternative strategy? YMMV
Administrator Posted January 23, 2008 Posted January 23, 2008 Good point. Hey Admin--what do you think? I think that it is a GoodThing that you are trying to do, bringing the HOC to the attention of Heritage Guitar, Inc. And, I understand why so many feel it is important. Being a businessman (I have started and run three different businesses with varying degrees of profitability although I am presently a captive employee...but planning my escape!) and having an understanding of the strategic importance of a manufacturer's user base (there is an old adage that it is far more expensive to win a new customer than it is to keep an existing one), I think that one of the wisest moves that HGI could make would be to milk this group for all it is worth. The quintessential "user group marketing" success story is the Harley-Davidson Owners Group. H-D, while they were still staging their come back, realized that they had a hardcore group of "fans" who they could draw on for R&D input, marketing advice, etc. Could the HOC provide those services to Heritage? I think so, and I think they would be foolish not to avail themselves of the potential that this (international!!!) group of fans represents. That being said, I do not think that there is a high degree of probability that they will participate here in an official capacity. Not that they wouldn't be welcome, I would love to see Ren or Vince or any of the men and women that actually build the guitars become active members of this community. It would only serve to expand the pool of available Heritage knowledge, provide a closer linkage between the people who love the company as well as the products and it would just down right be fun. I know that publicly traded companies operate under restrictions in public forums due to the nature of business liability...disclosure laws, potential for PR fiascoes, etc. There is a reason, after all, that Hamer quit linking to the Hamer Fan Club, why Fender took over the Jackson forum and ruled with an iron fist, etc. With Heritage being privately held, though, I think they have much greater latitude in what they can do and say, so...maybe? I personally would consider it an honor if they dropped in and conversed with the group. I told Ren via email last fall (and I believe Lane and Jay were copied on it) that if there was anything I or the HOC could do to help them out while they were restructuring, all of my resources were at their disposal. My thought was that the more information they could get to the public, the better off they would be. The offer still stands. On a related note, when I set up the HOC, I invited Jay Wolfe, Buffalo Brothers and a couple of the other well-known Heritage dealers to participate. Heritage Guitar, Inc. isn't the only business that has failed to grasp the significance of a dedicated, (I'll say it again, because this is an important point) international group of aficionados who have demonstrated by their membership and participation here that they are committed at a very real level to Heritage guitars. And lest anyone get the idea that I am looking to prostitute the membership or the HOC. That is definitely not the case. I maintain and operate this site because I, too, am enamored of the Heritage story and everything that the company represents. I have never asked for, nor implied that I desire, any sort of remuneration. I genuinely would like to see the company survive, thrive and prosper. In this regard, this is probably as close to altruism as any in our society can get. Whether the folks in Kalamazoo continue to turn out guitars or not, there will always be people interested in talking about them, buying them and, most importantly, playing them, so the HOC would continue even if HGI didn't. But...I want HGI to continue building instruments that come with a long and storied history right in the case! Hell, I'll give them some free marketing advice...an ad campaign done in the style of those 1920s art deco "industry and commerce" prints (sorry, can't remember the artist, but you know...guys with sledgehammers, funny perspectives, tall buildings, almost looked cartoonish...primary colors and greys, etc.) with a guy in front of a band playing a Heritage guitar..."The Heritage...The Original Workingman's Guitar." People would kill to be a part of that scene and they'd eat Henry J's lunch. I have tons of ideas...just ask me. Now, aren't you glad you asked what I think?
plexirocker 68 Posted January 23, 2008 Posted January 23, 2008 Here's what I like and don't like about Heritage. Likes: I love the TONE and quality of the instruments. I buy them as do many others simply because they are the CLOSEST thing to the true vintage G's outside of the high priced Historic line. Price being affordable is huge here for me and many others. If you get too high guys will go for the G because of future re-sell. If they stay affordable many players can/will own mutiple Heritage guitars. The tone and quality is beautiful for the most part. Big G can command big prices and get it because of the rep and name. Heritage isn't there yet and shouldn't try to be like them. So for me #1 is tone/quality and # 2 is AFFORDABLE price! These guitars have some magic, no doubt about it but most of the "consumers" aren't getting this. The ones that "get it" buy them. Dislikes: Looks. I personally I don't care too much about looks. If it plays and sounds great I could care less if it's even painted. Many folks do.The pickguard cuts are simply ugly. That needs to be fixed and the standard TOM"s need to be used. Ditch the oversize Schaller thing. Small headstocks are about 50-50 on like/dislike. I would rethink that design. Find something better. The biggest problem IMHO is lack of good marketing. The website is terrible. It's the way of the world in 2008, Heritage needs to catch up here. And instead of having a good web page let's have a web page that matches the quality of the guitars. Be the best. !!!!!!! Get some big name players on board and spend some real money on advertising. You may have the best product in the biz but who KNOWS about it is the key. Do NOT downsize the line. I would ad some budget under a grand line, There is a reason G and Fender make every guitar right now that they have ever made, it is what the consumer wants. Simply put give the consumers what they want. Get some feedback from dealers like Jay that are doing their own thing with upgrading Heritages. Heck just let Jay design the stuff and go with it. It's real easy plexi
GuitArtMan Posted January 23, 2008 Posted January 23, 2008 http://www.heritageownersclub.com/forums/i...topic,50.0.html
Dick Seacup Posted January 23, 2008 Posted January 23, 2008 ...I could see an open house type of annual get together/factory tour/jam. ... I'm in!!!
yoslate Posted January 23, 2008 Posted January 23, 2008 I genuinely would like to see the company survive, thrive and prosper. In this regard, this is probably as close to altruism as any in our society can get. Whether the folks in Kalamazoo continue to turn out guitars or not, there will always be people interested in talking about them, buying them and, most importantly, playing them, so the HOC would continue even if HGI didn't. But...I want HGI to continue building instruments that come with a long and storied history right in the case! Well, that would be "the note," regardless of the source! Thanks, Admin, for weighing in, with your considerable cred, at what is probably a very opportune time. I would hope that as Mr. Margol visits Jay this week, Jay, as our de facto representative of sorts, is able to convey some sense of the insight, passion, and loyalty Heritage guitars engender and the HOC represents.
jazzalicious Posted January 23, 2008 Posted January 23, 2008 Okay...just my 2 cents, and I don't know about the ins and outs of building a guitar, but, I've been waiting for a 575 for over a year, and instead of having to call Jay and Graham, and sometimes Ren and Bill about the stage of construction, only to be told that they were sure it was close to being completed, when in fact it is only now in the "wood selection phase (not yet begun)", it would be great if they could make a numbered checklist of the many stages of construction, and check off when each phase is completed, perhaps with a quick note of added info if need be. It would make sense for them to keep track of each guitar's building stages. This would of course be more efficient if it were done on a computer (even something simple like Excel could work). This way 1) they would have it on record 2) they could then keep the dealer and customer informed. I know they don't work like this, and that's part of the cache of Heritage....Old School, but....it just makes sense. Jazzalicious
LH575 Posted January 23, 2008 Posted January 23, 2008 Here are my requests. I have 2 Heritages - H157, H555. Better QC. Better fit and finish. Either respond to emails and phone calls 100% of the time or not at all. Pick one and roll with it. Are you a custom shop or not? Again, pick one. If you are a custom shop, understand that your customer expects friendly communication throughout the entire build. Not to sound harsh, but these things should be worked out.
Kuz Posted January 23, 2008 Posted January 23, 2008 Okay...just my 2 cents, and I don't know about the ins and outs of building a guitar, but, I've been waiting for a 575 for over a year, and instead of having to call Jay and Graham, and sometimes Ren and Bill about the stage of construction, only to be told that they were sure it was close to being completed, when in fact it is only now in the "wood selection phase (not yet begun)", it would be great if they could make a numbered checklist of the many stages of construction, and check off when each phase is completed, perhaps with a quick note of added info if need be. It would make sense for them to keep track of each guitar's building stages. This would of course be more efficient if it were done on a computer (even something simple like Excel could work). This way 1) they would have it on record 2) they could then keep the dealer and customer informed. I know they don't work like this, and that's part of the cache of Heritage....Old School, but....it just makes sense.Jazzalicious Been through it with ya. This maybe be their worst sin (next to getting custom orders incorrect with the wrong color)! :-
SouthpawGuy Posted January 23, 2008 Posted January 23, 2008 Likes: I love the TONE and quality of the instruments. I buy them as do many others simply because they are the CLOSEST thing to the true vintage G's outside of the high priced Historic line. Price being affordable is huge here for me and many others. If you get too high guys will go for the G because of future re-sell. If they stay affordable many players can/will own mutiple Heritage guitars. The tone and quality is beautiful for the most part. Big G can command big prices and get it because of the rep and name. Heritage isn't there yet and shouldn't try to be like them. So for me #1 is tone/quality and # 2 is AFFORDABLE price! These guitars have some magic, no doubt about it but most of the "consumers" aren't getting this. The ones that "get it" buy them. I agree 100% with you plexi, if Heritage up the prices too much they will then be taking on the G brand directly. I honestly don't think they could win that battle right now.
jamison162 Posted January 23, 2008 Posted January 23, 2008 Here's my issues my with H-150: 1) Cut better nuts; how about bone. My H-150 nut is cut as bad as any Gibson, pings like crazy. 2) Standard 18:1 Grovers would be nice. 3) Big one!!! Larger frets - at least taller. Quit using that short stuff, please!!!!! 4) Pots are crap. Yes, they are smooth but mine are either off or on, there's no decent taper. I'm gonna gut and rewire soon. 5) Get rid of the Schaller hardware and go standard Gibson style, Nashville or ABR with lightweight stop tailpiece. Tonepros as standard would be nice!! 6) Jacks are too stiff; what's wrong with using a standard switchcraft 1/4"? I know I'm only wishing here.
jamison162 Posted January 23, 2008 Posted January 23, 2008 Oh...... 7) Route both pickups cavities full depth so that they may accomdate any aftermarket, full depth, mouting brackets. My bridge is fine, but the neck cavity is too shallow for Duncan Seth Lovers or WCR's. It had the small bracket Golden Age pickups as stock. How hard would this be?
Thundersteel Posted January 24, 2008 Author Posted January 24, 2008 OK, the polls are now closed! I'd like to thank everyone for their input. I have forwarded your responses to Jay. Now let's all keep our fingers crossed and hope for the best!
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