m3love1 Posted August 21, 2009 Share Posted August 21, 2009 With so many different options available, it is increasingly difficult to settle on a Heritage (considering I took lessons from Ren Wall for about four years, lets keep that between us). I have been exploring the purchase of an archtop guitar, looking at several options, including, of course, Heritage, but have also come across several others e.g. Goodman, Victor Baker, D' Angelico. I am particularly impressed by what I see and hear of Victor Baker guitars. But 4-5k? So, I am well aware of the mass opinion at this location, but would like to hear a little more on this particular topic. Does a 5K instrument, built by a single skilled luthier trully sound and play that much better? And if so, is it worth the additional cost? If anyone has any particular knowledge of Victor Baker guitars, please share. Also, I am knew to the site, so not entirely familiar with what I am doing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pcovers Posted August 21, 2009 Share Posted August 21, 2009 Does a 5K instrument, built by a single skilled luthier trully sound and play that much better? And if so, is it worth the additional cost? If anyone has any particular knowledge of Victor Baker guitars, please share. Also, I am knew to the site, so not entirely familiar with what I am doing. It would be helpful if you could be specific about which Baker models you would consider relative to the corresponding Heritage model. VB guitars are certainly very nice, but a comparison of apples to apples in models would be important, too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikenov Posted August 21, 2009 Share Posted August 21, 2009 Before I give my opinion, I don't play Jazz guitar so none of the above guitars are brands I particularly know or have looked at. I have played some expensive guitars custom built/ Taylor's new electrics/Really nice Gretch and Ibanez and none of them have been any better than a nicely set up production Heritage. As long as you have a good guitar tech to get that guitar set up to your perfect spec, upgrade some of the parts that need upgrading, and pickups of choice, I think the Heritage guitars give you the quality raw materials and sometimes not so raw, to have about as nice a guitar as you can play. The rest is window dressing(not that Heritage guitars aren't good looking). If you concern is tone and playability just don't EVER see a reason to spend 5K on a guitar. I think there is a point of diminishing returns when it comes the cost of a guitar. The difference between a $150 guitar and a $500 guitar is HUGE. $500 and up that guitar should be structurally sound. $1000 and up it should have premium electronics and be a good playing guitar out of the box. 300$ at a good tech and I think you have an awesome playing guitar. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gitfiddler Posted August 21, 2009 Share Posted August 21, 2009 m3love1~ Welcome to the HOC. Always nice to hear from another fan of fine archtops. While I am not personally familiar with Baker or Goodman, I know that Heritage archtops are very, very good. Also, are you referring to the newer Pacific Rim-built DiAngelico's or the original hand made models? When you consider paying premium dollars for a fine archtop, it pays to play as many as you can beforehand. I've been told that some Heritage archtops are at least comparable, if not superior to many boutique made guitars of similar design. It truly depends on what you are looking for...(i.e. a specific tone, feel, design, woods, playability, neck profile, scale, radius and...headstock design). Let's face it, MANY players are seduced by the name on the headstock. I know I too was the victim of slick marketing and famous players photos, smiling as they held onto a ridiculously expensive (to us regular folks) guitar. If you do a head to head comparison I'm sure you'll find the specific guitar that turns you on. Me, I'll just hold onto my Heritages. I will also take a look at the Baker and Goodman instruments, since like many here on the HOC, I'm a sucker for any cool guitar. Please let us see which model(s) you are interested in. If it make me play and sound like Wes, even better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
big bob Posted August 21, 2009 Share Posted August 21, 2009 With so many different options available, it is increasingly difficult to settle on a Heritage (considering I took lessons from Ren Wall for about four years, lets keep that between us). I have been exploring the purchase of an archtop guitar, looking at several options, including, of course, Heritage, but have also come across several others e.g. Goodman, Victor Baker, D' Angelico. I am particularly impressed by what I see and hear of Victor Baker guitars. But 4-5k? So, I am well aware of the mass opinion at this location, but would like to hear a little more on this particular topic. Does a 5K instrument, built by a single skilled luthier trully sound and play that much better? And if so, is it worth the additional cost? If anyone has any particular knowledge of Victor Baker guitars, please share. Also, I am knew to the site, so not entirely familiar with what I am doing. If you took lessons from Ren, you should go ask him what would be the perfect guitar for you and have him make it "just for you" no one else would do that. Well maybe john Kinnard might do it too, but he like Ren is one hell of a guy and john would charge you way more than Ren. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
m3love1 Posted August 21, 2009 Author Share Posted August 21, 2009 It would be helpful if you could be specific about which Baker models you would consider relative to the corresponding Heritage model. VB guitars are certainly very nice, but a comparison of apples to apples in models would be important, too. You certainly make a valid point. I have been considering the purchase of several different models, but think I have narrowed it down on the heritage side to one of the H575 models, and on the VB side to either the Gig Pro or Bop model. I realize we could expand on the particulars further, creating an even better comparison, but hopefully this puts us in the range of at least a yellow apple red apple comparison. Thanks for the feedback. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
m3love1 Posted August 21, 2009 Author Share Posted August 21, 2009 If you took lessons from Ren, you should go ask him what would be the perfect guitar for you and have him make it "just for you" no one else would do that. Well maybe john Kinnard might do it too, but he like Ren is one hell of a guy and john would charge you way more than Ren. Yes, although it has been about five years since I have spoken with Ren, I have been considering re-connecting with him to discuss this very topic. I'm not sure, however, how much control he has over pricing, but his advise alone would be worth initiating contact. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ledzef Posted August 21, 2009 Share Posted August 21, 2009 Archtops are very labor intensive guitars especially if the maker is doing it all by hand and not cnc cuts. If it's worth the extra money is up to you. For a "mass produced" guitar the attention Heritage gives to their guitars are top notch. Personally I'd save the extra money and put it towards a nice amp. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kuz Posted August 22, 2009 Share Posted August 22, 2009 Wow, I never thought I would hear Heritage guitars refered to as "mass produced" or "production models". I guess you know where I am on this topic, go Heritage. Remember that for archtops they do "top tune" them (and you can even ask for an even more labor intensive "wood tuning" option). My Sweet 16 & Golden Eagle were the best archtops I have ever played. Now with that being said are there better/equal archtops out there made by some guy that makes 10 a year for $10,000-20,000 per guitar, probably. But don't underestimate Heritages archtops- they are handmade, top tuned master pieces. Plus Heritage cut it's teeth and carved it's reputation as an archtop company. Can Kenny Burrell, Henry Johnson, Mimi Fox, Alex Scholinic, Vince Lewis,.... can they all be wrong? Let's face it, Heritage doesn't bust the bank on it's endorsers. They guys play Heritage because they want to play Heritage guitars! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TalismanRich Posted August 22, 2009 Share Posted August 22, 2009 M3, One thing about getting something like a Heritage is that you can talk to the people making the instrument if you order one. I think you can do the same thing with Benedetto guitars. If you're local to Heritage, I would think that's an advantage. For single luthier guitars, you can go with John Buscarino (very pricey), but you might look at Dale Ungar (American Archtops). He is much more reasonable on prices (still $4000+). I met a fellow in Lancaster PA who played an American. Very nice guitar. Like Goodman and Baker, selection isn't going to be wide. All these guys make a very limited number of guitars. You're going to get a personal touch from all these folks. At the same time, if you only make 20-30 guitars a year, you have to charge $4-5000 to make a decent living (you still have to buy the wood etc). I don't know much about the newer D'Angelico guitars. I don't know if Aria is still making D'Aquistos or not. I'm sure they make some decent guitars, but they are not going to be customized instruments. I don't know if they will be hand built or CNC. There's usually a reason which a guitar costs $1000 instead of $5000. You have to cut corners somewhere. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steiner Posted August 22, 2009 Share Posted August 22, 2009 I ordered a customized Heritage 575 based on many factors: The owners lived through the previous owner's push 'em out the door period and appear burned out on that policy. I've Never touched a heritage dud. They have subtle, different properties but all are exquisite guitars. I custom ordered what I wanted and they said yes! They are the largest, recognizable manufacturer that will do that. I specked out a boutique hollowbody elsewhere and received a higher quote. Some attributes were nicer, some he couldn't do. You need to visit Kalamazoo and see their production floor. There is not one computerized controller there. It's all done with skilled, human interaction. They utilize the same attention to detail that makes a Rolls Royce desirable. They truly are a custom guitar shop. I know nothing about Mr. Baker and wish him no ill feelings. I do know the heritages I own come alive as well or better than any other guitar I've played. I've discontinued my search for any model Heritage produces. I now know where to go. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
High Flying Bird Posted August 22, 2009 Share Posted August 22, 2009 I know nothing about Mr. Baker and wish him no ill feelings. Hello Love. (God I felt like Freddy Mercury typing that) You will find the comment above sets the tone for this forum. Yes, you can walk into the factory and meet the owners and guitar makers. Go this route. Get a Heritage, save some money, and if you decide you don't like it you can sell it here. There is a lot of information here and we all like to talk. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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