Pick-up Choices for new custom H535?

[iim7v7im7]

Hi,

 

I am considering buying a new semi-hollow body with PAFs to play mostly blues and occasionally some rock from the 70s. I am looking at potentially a customized Heritage H535 and I have been evaluating 3 possibilities of pickups that are available from Heritage:

 

Seymour Duncan 59s

Seymour Duncan Seth Lovers

Jason Lollar Imperials

 

If some of you have experience with these, particularly in an instrument like this I would love to hear your experience or contrasts in tone between them. Additionally, I see that the Lollars are available in different windings, distinctions here would be appreciated.

 

I typically set my guitar volume and amp (Allen Accomplice, AB763 clone) on the edge of distortion so if I pick lightly or roll back my volume slightly I get I nice clean sound, but if I dig in I get the amp to overdrive. I appreciate touch sensitivity, dynamics and I am typically not attracted to "muddy" sounds.

 

I currently only play single coils (Tele and a Valley Arts w/ P-90s) so I am looking for that rounder PAF sound, but I still want articulation if that makes sense?

 

Are any of these or others best suited for what I am looking for in this type of instument into a Fender-clone amp?

 

Thanks,

 

Bob

[fxdx99]

Hey - are you me?...

 

I've the Accomplish Jr, tele and 535 are my fav choices for gigging. I like Seth Lovers - like them a LOT in the 535 and especially for blues. Have had 59s and find them okay, but a bit constipated. Schallers have a nice clean (a little too much for me - think Nashville/Chet). Not familiar w/Lollar Imperials. I have a pair of Throbaks in a 555 that I really like as well.

 

But then again, I don't play all that many m7ths

[iim7v7im7]

I don't think that I am you, but I can be certain for sure...:-)

 

Yeah, I love my Dave Allen amp. I retubed it with some old NOS RCA 6V6s and some NOS pre-amp tubes (some GEs and some Mullards). I actually found that the reverb improved immmensely by swapping out the 12AX7 with a 12AT7. See my photos below....

 

Thanks for the feedback on the Seth Lovers. A buddy of mine had them come in a Hamer Artist that he bought and they were somewhat muddy in that instrument to his ears (but then again, he is mostly Strat-single coil guy). I think he swapped them for Dimarzio Eric Johnsons. That being said, we have very different definitions on what we like in terms of tone.

 

I have had excellent experience with Lollar P-90s in one of my other guitars, hence I thought about Imperials. My Sweet 16 has an HRW 4 on a 4-point mount (thanks Ren) but that guitar is a clean machine that I use for jazz. I really have very little experience with PAFs other than that.

 

:-)

 

Bob

 

Hey - are you me?...

 

I've the Accomplish Jr, tele and 535 are my fav choices for gigging. I like Seth Lovers - like them a LOT in the 535 and especially for blues. Have had 59s and find them okay, but a bit constipated. Schallers have a nice clean (a little too much for me - think Nashville/Chet). Not familiar w/Lollar Imperials. I have a pair of Throbaks in a 555 that I really like as well.

 

But then again, I don't play all that many m7ths

[paul144]

+1 on the Seths. They sounded great in my 535.

 

here's a clip with a Zendrive into a '70 Princeton Reverb

 

[GuitArtMan]

Seth Lovers are the tits in a 535.

[High Flying Bird]

I liked the Seth's in Mike's 150 but the HRW's in my 535 custom are the best pickup I have ever played.

 

Don't write off the HRWs.

[Kuz]

OK, I have had experience with almost all of those in a 535/555.

 

Ranked in order of best (most pleasing PAF tone)

 

1. Throbaks (it's not even close- they are the real deal)

 

2. Seths (not as sweet or round as the Throbaks, but very PAF, more biting very cleaer but less warm- maybe even a little harsh- but hey sometimes a guitar needs that harsher high end)

 

3. HRWs (if it were me I would put in Throbaks, but then go to HRWs= they are a little BIGGER sounding and more output than a traditional PAF)

 

4. Lollar Imperials - I love Lollar p-90s, but his humbuckers have been hit or miss with me and I have owned 4 sets. They are potted and in my opinion don't have the 3-D overtones of the above pups. But Lollars p-90s are INCREDIBLE!!!)

 

Hope it helps. Again, Throbaks are the Lambergini, but HRWs are a nice Merecedes.

[iim7v7im7]

THanks for your input....What is interesting is I have an HRW 4 on my Sweet 16 (see below).

It is great jazz pick-up a wonderful balance of clarity with warmth. I just had such a profoundly good experience with Jason's P-90s on my other guitar, I had to ask. I spoke with Jay who said they had a H535 pickup comparison in his shop with 20 players who blind voted on their preference and Lollar Imperial low winds won for the neck position and SD Seth Lovers for the bridge position. Thanks for the tip on the Throbacks, I had heard of them but have never "heard" them. Eitherway, a decisoon to put them in is an aftermarket decision. From the Heritage factory I thought it was SD, JL or HRWs?

 

:-)

 

Bob

 

 

OK, I have had experience with almost all of those in a 535/555.

 

Ranked in order of best (most pleasing PAF tone)

 

1. Throbaks (it's not even close- they are the real deal)

 

2. Seths (not as sweet or round as the Throbaks, but very PAF, more biting very cleaer but less warm- maybe even a little harsh- but hey sometimes a guitar needs that harsher high end)

 

3. HRWs (if it were me I would put in Throbaks, but then go to HRWs= they are a little BIGGER sounding and more output than a traditional PAF)

 

4. Lollar Imperials - I love Lollar p-90s, but his humbuckers have been hit or miss with me and I have owned 4 sets. They are potted and in my opinion don't have the 3-D overtones of the above pups. But Lollars p-90s are INCREDIBLE!!!)

 

Hope it helps. Again, Throbaks are the Lambergini, but HRWs are a nice Merecedes.

[Kuz]

THanks for your input....What is interesting is I have an HRW 4 on my Sweet 16 (see below).

It is great jazz pick-up a wonderful balance of clarity with warmth. I just had such a profoundly good experience with Jason's P-90s on my other guitar, I had to ask. I spoke with Jay who said they had a H535 pickup comparison in his shop with 20 players who blind voted on their preference and Lollar Imperial low winds won for the neck position and SD Seth Lovers for the bridge position. Thanks for the tip on the Throbacks, I had heard of them but have never "heard" them. Eitherway, a decisoon to put them in is an aftermarket decision. From the Heritage factory I thought it was SD, JL or HRWs?

 

:-)

 

Bob

 

Nope! What ever pickups you want they will order and put them in. One thing to consider is that on a Semi-hollow changing pups is a pain in the A$$. It cost me over a $100 in labor from my luthier. Better to spend what you want now, and have Heritage put them in for free.

 

And I, like you, LOVE Jason's p-90s, but I completely disagree with Wolfe's test. Remember 3 or 4 different guitars with different pickups, is not a test. You need one control guitar and then change the pups only in that guitar. I have 3 150s and they all sound very different with the same pups in them. You have to account for different variance in tone from the individual guitars themselves.

 

Good luck!

[Gitfiddler]

Here's my 2 cents...HRW's sound great in my 555 semi for clean jazz, funk or screaming overdriven rock.

 

 

Since you mentioned how much you like Lollar P90's, I wouldn't rule out Seymour Duncan Phat Cats. To my ear, they are a hybrid sound of a humbucker/P90-ish tone....and sound great in a semi-hollow.

[iim7v7im7]

Gitfiddler,

 

Thanks for the suggestion, but I am looking for a different sound than what I currently can achieve (e.g. Nocaster w/ single-coils, Valley Arts w/ Lollar P-90s, Sweet 16 with HRW). I have attached a picture of my guitar with the P-90s below. I actually mostly use the Sweet 16 with a different amp rig (Clarus 2R, RE Cabinet) so beyond the pick-up the sound is quite different.

 

I am looking for a PAF tone that is clear, articulate, warm with some roundness when played clean. When overdriving the amp, I look for dynamics (most of which I get from where I set my amp) and a creamy, sweet tone with some ability to growl and produce interesting harmonics when double string bending. The instrument will be driving a Fender type circuit with some pedals in front.

 

HB that I do not typically like are either too "muddy" to my ear or are too hot, bright and scratchy or a mono-chromatic and not complex when overdriving an amp. I suspect, like most of my playing I will rely on the neck pickup 80% of the time.

 

I did not realize that Heritage would put in the whatever I wanted (thats great). I had not even considered throbacks or other boutique PUs. Its always difficult buying an instrument sight onseen, but fortunately I have been extremely lucky (although the original HRW floater was not to my liking so I swapped it out). Searching on the broader internet I see advocates for Seymour Duncan Seth Lovers, 59s and Antiquities. I also see plenty of Jason Lollar fans out there. Have any of you split your pickup makes by position (e.g. one brand for the neck and another for the bridge) to achieve what you were looking for?

 

Do any of you have any suggestions regarding pots (I was thinking 500k) or caps (.022 uf between tone and volume)?). Additionally, would you go for bone or plastic on the nut? I was also thinking tonepros on the bridge tailpiece.

 

:-)

 

Bob

 

 

 

Here's my 2 cents...HRW's sound great in my 555 semi for clean jazz, funk or screaming overdriven rock.

 

 

Since you mentioned how much you like Lollar P90's, I wouldn't rule out Seymour Duncan Phat Cats. To my ear, they are a hybrid sound of a humbucker/P90-ish tone....and sound great in a semi-hollow.

[SouthpawGuy]

I am looking for a PAF tone that is clear, articulate, warm with some roundness when played clean. When overdriving the amp, I look for dynamics (most of which I get from where I set my amp) and a creamy, sweet tone with some ability to growl and produce interesting harmonics when double string bending. The instrument will be driving a Fender type circuit with some pedals in front.

 

HB that I do not typically like are either too "muddy" to my ear or are too hot, bright and scratchy or a mono-chromatic and not complex when overdriving an amp. I suspect, like most of my playing I will rely on the neck pickup 80% of the time.

 

You just perfectly described a Seth Lover.

 

I have Seths in my Prospect and it sounds great clean, and also fantastic with low gain, mildly overdriven tones. I also have Seths in the neck position of two G&L Bluesboys, a solid and a semi hollow. in both guitars it is the perfect match for the bridge G&L MFD pickup, not too dark or bright and complements the single coil pickup perfectly, in fact at times I forget that it is a humbucker I'm playing. I was mostly into single coil tones myself for a very long time but these days I gravitate to humbuckers a lot, and the Seths are perfect for my ear.

 

Gratuitous pics ...

 

Prospect

 

Bluesboy solid

 

Bluesboy semi

[iim7v7im7]

Hi,

 

I think that I have nailed down what I am going to order. I think that I am going to try the Lollar Imperial standard winds. They should have some extra umph other my Lollar P-90s. I also think that having it set up with .011s with a short-scale neck should feel like my Nocaster with its long-scale neck with .010s. I have enclosed my specs below. I would apppreciate your comments if you see something (e.g. like choice of hardware, neck profile etc.) that you think I should reconsider.

 

Appreciated,

 

Bob

 

Custom H535:

 

Body Veneer: highly figured curly maple (flamed top, back and sides)

Body Color: oldstyle burst

Body Binding: single cream including F-hole binding

Neck: mahogany

Neck Shape: 59 style

Fingerboard: rosewood with block mother of pearl inlays with single cream binding

Frets: 6150

Fingerboard Radius: 12"

Nut: corian, 1-11/16 spacing

Strings: .011 - .049"

Headstock: ebony veneer with mother of pearl "The Heritage" inlay with single cream binding

Pickguard: ebony "KB" style with single cream binding

Tuners: Grover 18:1 rotomatics

Bridge/Tailpiece: tonepros system II bridge & tailpiece with locking studs, nickel

Pickups: jason lollar imperials standard wind with nickel covers

Controls: 3-way toggle, 4 black speed knobs or gold depending on body color (500k pots and .02uf caps)

Strap buttons: dunlop strap locks, nickel

[Kuz]

Hi,

 

I think that I have nailed down what I am going to order. I think that I am going to try the Lollar Imperial standard winds. They should have some extra umph other my Lollar P-90s. I also think that having it set up with .011s with a short-scale neck should feel like my Nocaster with its long-scale neck with .010s. I have enclosed my specs below. I would apppreciate your comments if you see something (e.g. like choice of hardware, neck profile etc.) that you think I should reconsider.

 

Appreciated,

 

Bob

 

Custom H535:

 

Body Veneer: highly figured curly maple (flamed top, back and sides)

Body Color: oldstyle burst

Body Binding: single cream including F-hole binding

Neck: mahogany

Neck Shape: 59 style

Fingerboard: rosewood with block mother of pearl inlays with single cream binding

Frets: 6150

Fingerboard Radius: 12"

Nut: corian, 1-11/16 spacing

Strings: .011 - .049"

Headstock: ebony veneer with mother of pearl "The Heritage" inlay with single cream binding

Pickguard: ebony "KB" style with single cream binding

Tuners: Grover 18:1 rotomatics

Bridge/Tailpiece: tonepros system II bridge & tailpiece with locking studs, nickel

Pickups: jason lollar imperials standard wind with nickel covers

Controls: 3-way toggle, 4 black speed knobs or gold depending on body color (500k pots and .02uf caps)

Strap buttons: dunlop strap locks, nickel

 

For $49 more you could have Throbaks, but again it is your guitar. I am sure it will be great.

[mark555]

I have seymour 59's in my 555 and they are excellent. Personal choice.

[Spectrum13]

Only suggestion I can give to that very tasteful order would be a switchcraft toggle and a bone nut.

That's going to be so nice to come home to.

[tulk1]

Please enlighten. What is "Pickguard: ebony "KB" style with single cream binding" Well, I know what a pickguard is; it's a finger rest. But whats the "KB" style?

 

Oh, Kenny Burrell, maybe?

[iim7v7im7]

Hi,

 

http://www.heritageguitar.com/GrooveMaster.htm

 

Note how they spell finger rest...:-) I believe Graham told me that they refer to the larger sized finger rest on the Concert Master as "Kenny Burrell" style and the slightly smaller but similarly shaped finger rest as "KB" used on the Groove Master. Both are similar in shape to the older "Johnny Smith" style that is remeniscent of a Gibson style. It will be similar in shape to the maple stained version in this image but made from ebony (see below)

 

 

:-)

 

Bob

 

Please enlighten. What is "Pickguard: ebony "KB" style with single cream binding" Well, I know what a pickguard is; it's a finger rest. But whats the "KB" style?

 

Oh, Kenny Burrell, maybe?

[iim7v7im7]

Hi,

 

Why bone on the nut? Is it tradition or tone or both? I assumed that toggles and jacks would be switchcraft standard. Am I mistaken?

 

:-)

 

Bob

 

 

 

Only suggestion I can give to that very tasteful order would be a switchcraft toggle and a bone nut.

That's going to be so nice to come home to.

[iim7v7im7]

For $49 more you could have Throbaks, but again it is your guitar. I am sure it will be great.

 

Kuz,

 

The money wasn't the issue. I just simply cannot find a lot of data on Throbak and Jon Gundry. It sounds as if Mr. Gundry purchased his equipment in 2008 and has been making these for a short period of time (Maybe I am wrong here???). I know Jason has been selling pick-ups for over 15 years now.

 

I am not doubting you whatsoever, I am sure they sound great as you state. I have some questions for you if you don't mind.

 

I assume that you have only tried one set of the Throbaks, correct?

How can you compare consistency on a sample of one?

Where the 4 sets of Imperials standard or low-winds?

Where these all purchased for one instrument or in multiples?

 

I am asking because usually when I buy something and like it, I buy more and when I don't like it, I don't buy more.

 

What are Lollars potted with and how does that impact the tone?

Additionally, what type of musical style do you play and what type of amp set-up are you using?

 

I haven't made a "final" decision yet, was really basing my decision on my experience with Lollar P-90s, Comments like yours on this page, the gear page , gibson form, harmony central, tonequest, youtube and from the folks at Wolfe guitars. I have found people in general love Seymour Duncan 59s, Seth Lovers, Antiquity, Dimarzio 36th Anniversary, ThroBak SLE-101s and JM Rolfs in Les Pauls and "335" styled instruments.

 

Jay has a great comparison between between SD 59s and Seth Lovers on H535s into some JTM45 clone. You can hear the differences between these two pickups.

 

 

I also found this clip on youtube of Lollars:

 

 

I really appreciate you taking the time to shae your thoughts.

 

:-)

 

Bob

[tulk1]

Hi,

 

http://www.heritageguitar.com/GrooveMaster.htm

 

Note how they spell finger rest...:-)

:-)

 

Bob

Bob ... I got a good laugh out of that one. I had to read the ad 3 times before I saw they spelled finger rest with a P. Good one!!!

[Kuz]

Kuz,

 

The money wasn't the issue. I just simply cannot find a lot of data on Throbak and Jon Gundry. It sounds as if Mr. Gundry purchased his equipment in 2008 and has been making these for a short period of time (Maybe I am wrong here???). I know Jason has been selling pick-ups for over 15 years now.

 

I am not doubting you whatsoever, I am sure they sound great as you state. I have some questions for you if you don't mind.

 

I assume that you have only tried one set of the Throbaks, correct? I have 2 sets of Throbaks with probably another on the way

How can you compare consistency on a sample of one? Well again I have 2 sets and they are the most consistent PAF pup made in my opinion

Where the 4 sets of Imperials standard or low-winds? 3 sets standard, 1 set high wind. I actually liked the high winds the best but the standards were all over the place in terms of out put and tone

Where these all purchased for one instrument or in multiples? 4 sets purchased for 2 different guitars and then I gave up after swapping back and forth. The major problem was the inconsistent output, tone, and because they were potted they were duller sounding and not open/airy sounding. The overtones were swashed with the potting

 

I am asking because usually when I buy something and like it, I buy more and when I don't like it, I don't buy more.

 

What are Lollars potted with and how does that impact the tone? Wax potting and it dulls the output and swashes the highend overtones

Additionally, what type of musical style do you play and what type of amp set-up are you using? Blues, classic rock. Amps I use anywhere from vintage Blackface fenders to tweeds to Bogner shiva to matchless c-30 to Carr Rambler

 

I haven't made a "final" decision yet, was really basing my decision on my experience with Lollar P-90s, Comments like yours on this page, the gear page , gibson form, harmony central, tonequest, youtube and from the folks at Wolfe guitars. I have found people in general love Seymour Duncan 59s, Seth Lovers, Antiquity, Dimarzio 36th Anniversary, ThroBak SLE-101s and JM Rolfs in Les Pauls and "335" styled instruments. I LOVE Jasons p-90s as well as I own 3 guitars with them

 

Jay has a great comparison between between SD 59s and Seth Lovers on H535s into some JTM45 clone. You can hear the differences between these two pickups.

 

 

I also found this clip on youtube of Lollars:

 

 

I really appreciate you taking the time to shae your thoughts. DO a Youtube search for "Throbaks" and I think you will be impressed with the tones the posters achieve.

 

 

:-)

 

Bob

 

Good luck and remember it is your guitar. I am just offer advice and which pups are the best sounding authentic PAFs to me!