Are earlier Heritages better than late ones?

[cosmikdebriis]

Me again...

 

Title says it all really...

 

Your opinions gratefully accepted.

[Gitfiddler]

Hello Cos~  I don't know if the earlier Heritages are better, but they have been gradually improving on the consistency and workmanship across the product lines over the years. 

 

I have three 90's era Heritage archtops and one new '07 semi-hollow.  Of the group, only one of them ('96 Sweet 16) has a noticable QC issue.  And that is relatively minor.  The others are darn near perfect.

 

There have been a number of Heritage QC discussions here and on other forums.

 

Also, a number of guys here (myself included) have purchased used Heritages from early to very recent production with little or no issues. 

[yoslate]

My 576 is a '90...exquisite in every detail!  My 150 is an '04.  Ditto!    8)

[squawken]

I really see, or hear, and differences in quality between my '88 140, and '06 150.  Both are great!

[squawken]

Let me clarify my poor english!  I DO NOT see or hear any differences!  Sorry!

[skydog]

I really see, or hear, and differences in quality between my '88 140, and '06 150.

 

Huh?

[Jorgen-Denmark]

To sqauken: thanks for giving your opinion - it is one of the big question in HOC-life for us, the newbies (or maybe it's just warming up for us to buy one of each).

 

Some of us managed to read between the lines before you corrected your post :-)

[squawken]

Huh?

 

I followed up.  I was in a hurry, as I was at work.

[Kazwell]

So based on the answers so far, is it safe to say the QC has neither gotten better nor worse?

[cosmikdebriis]

Ok...

 

So there's been a fair amount of discussion on Quality Control but what about manufacturing techniques?  Have they changed over the years?

 

People, especially people who know what they're doing, are expensive. Mass production is more cost effective.

 

PRS are a case in point, look what happened to them !

[dblazer]

I had an early H-150 Gold Top, well made but 13.5 lbs, a couple of sanding marks under the gold, very minor I sold because of the weight, then a 1995 H-140 anniversary edition, beautiful materials but still a couple of finish quirks and sanding marks, next a 2000 "Blues Deluxe" semi-hollow, a couple of binding issues (very minor) which I sold because the H-140 sounded better, and now I have a 2007 H-137 that has a pretty good dent in it under the finish, a couple of binding quirks (very minor), and the bridge pickup wasn't alligned very well.

 

I'd day the mid 90 H-150 one is the most flawless but it was a limited edition.

[111518]

Cosmikdebriis:

I see much of the good and bad of Heritage as a continuation of the nature of Gibson production in the early 70s.  Then and now the guys on Parsons St. are experienced craftsmen, they have pride in what they do, but they also know that their connection to the gibson legacy allows them to sell everything that goes out the door and therefore they can be a little sloppy. This seems most commonly encountered in finish and fret work ... the latter was so inconsistent and problematic by the 90s that dealers insisted the company address the problem, and it responded by purchasing and using the plek system. 

 

I have three, two recent and one older, and the older and one of the recent ones have finish(or potentially worse issues.)  I'm assuming most people who have had really bad experience with Heritage guitars are not in the HOC, so the opinions here probably reflect some bias.

 

I don't think this is an issue of "decline," or of a particular period when quality was consistently bad, but rather an ongoing tendency towards inconsistency.  To a degree this is inherent in a hand-built instrument of wood, but, I do think other guitar co's large and small, CNC and not CNC, have devoted greater thought and energy to addressing quality control.  I think we all hope part of the reorganization will be a new concern with qc, especially if the prices are going to be increased significantly, as seems to be the plan. 

 

I think this all puts a premium of playing before you buy, or buying from a reputable dealer (first or second hand --I ask ebay auctioners where they bought their guitars, because I know Jay Wolfe imposes his own level of qc, and has the leverage to send back substandard guitars.)  Fortunately, most of the problems people seem to sometimes encounter are not fatal ...guitars can be refretted, sloppy finish work is usually just an annoyance, cheap pots can be replaced.  As long as the guitars are significantly less expensive than their competition (let's just be honest --comparable Gibsons), I'll consider the risk of inconsistency worth running, since I find the Heritage story so compelling and since I buy to play and not as an investment. 

[yoslate]

cosmikdebriis:

 

Above, would be the definitive response to your inquiry!  Nicely done 111518!

[GuitArtMan]

I would have to say the fret work/set up has improved since the introduction of the Plek machine, but there is still room for improvement imho.  I have a 535 getting re-fretted by Michael Tuttle of Best Frets as I type this.  I can't wait to get the guitar back!

[cosmikdebriis]

cosmikdebriis:

 

Above, would be the definitive response to your inquiry!  Nicely done 111518!

 

Yes I agree... Good answer and exactly what I was looking for.

 

My take on the subject is this... I own many guitars from different manufacturers, countries and ages.  I wanted a heritage (I now have a 140) because I fancied a hand made (or at least pretty close) guitar that I could afford !!!

 

I've a couple of English made Patrick Eggle guitars and they're Ok but the fret work is a bit shoddy and there's no sustain. I've also got a 75 Les Paul and it's quite nice but to be honest no better than many of the Vintage (Japanese) Greco guitars that I import and sell. More recently, on a whim, I bought a (presumably Korean built) Minarik Goddess and it's exquisitely made, beautiful to look at and pretty much faultless to play. Thing is, it's completely soul less. I have got Strats too and I'd have to admit the sheer tonal range is the best, feel and look like a plank of wood though.

 

I'm not looking for a perfect finish, I kinda like a bit of "mojo" to an instrument. But it's got to play properly. The heritage is probably the closest I've yet found to what I'm looking for. Perhaps I just need a 150 before I'm going to be completely satisfied. Probably a later one as it seems there's less likelyhood of dodgy fretwork.

 

So, if anyone knows of a 150, pref tobacco burst... And it's available for shipping to the UK...

[Thundersteel]

So, if anyone knows of a 150, pref tobacco burst... And it's available for shipping to the UK...

 

Give Jay a call or email; I'm sure he'll be more than happy to accomodate you!

[doggy1972]

Having played many G brand guitars, its safe to say that they are over price by quite a large margin. I bought my Heritage because I wanted a G brand but, did feel I could justify the outlay. In terms of feel and playability the Heritage is quite obviously superior to the standard production Gs. Guitar building seems to be a very hit and miss afair (although it shouldnt be) I found several quality issues on my H170 non which affect playability but, flaws all the same. I also think the old adage "one mans meat is another mans poison" comes into play here.We all prefer different set ups and, demand different levels of perfection.

Fretwork is the only issue I can see which can make or break a guitar. Other issues are easily addressed but, not frets. My 170 had quite obviously had a fret leveling at some stage and it plays like butter but, this leads me to believe that  this must have been an issue. This guitar is a 98 model. Im not sure when the plek was first used but, this could be a clue as to how plek has improved the standard of fret work on heritage guitars.

[SouthpawGuy]

Hi cosmik,

I am in Ireland and have myself acquired a 535 and 575 Custom from Jay in the last couple of months.( see my avatar)

All dealings were done by email. I found Jay to be very easy to deal with.

His shop is closed on Sundays and Mondays.

[Kuz]

FWIW,

 

'98 Sweet 16- with very minor finish blemishes

'99 555- dead perfect

'06 Golden Eagle- dead perfect

'06 Custom 555- with very minor finish blemishes

 

They all play great (very slight edge to the Plec guitars- the last 2). They all sound incredible.

 

When I say minor finish blemish, I mean a spec of saw dust or paint under the finish on the binding, maybe a little too much nitro finish at the neck meets the body joint, and slight polish swirls.

 

I certainly would not return these guitars because of these blemishes. They are hand made and I expect some slight blemishes. Do my PRS have ANY finish blemishes. NO. But they are much more machine made guitars.

 

I hope Heritage works on it's finish QC, especially if they jack up the price. ALL MY HERITAGES PLAY & SOUND GREAT- BUT IF THEY INCREASE THE PRICE 20-30% PEOPLE ARE NOT GOING TO OVER LOOK THESE SLIGHT BLEMISHES.

[skydog]

I had an early H-150 Gold Top, well made but 13.5 lbs

 

That's incredible! You'd need some sort of truss to hold it up

[yoslate]

That's incredible! You'd need some sort of truss to hold it up

 

I think the truss would come after you held it up!      :'(