My Tone revelation (serious)

[Kuz]

I have heard several times (even here) about the classic line "I'm guitar straight into amp type of guy".

 

Well, personally (unless you are just going for straight clean tone) I don't know of any professional/gigging artist REALLY does this. They use OD or boost pedals, either with a clean or overdriven/distorted amp to get their tone. The pedal and the amp have a synergistic effect to achieve their tone.

 

I have for a long time looked for an amp where all I needed was a guitar cord and 'crank her up' to get the thick but articulate overdrive tone I wanted. Yet I would always have to bring a OD pedal set gain a 9 0'clock (just barely on) and the level at about noon and tone to taste. BINGO that muddy wall of sound is controlled and heavenly.

 

Kenny, at PSP2 IMHO had the best tone of the night. He was using an OD pedal to goose his TWEED amp. Again, I would have thought this to be sacrilege, but it is the secret of the tone masters.

 

Robben Ford & Larry Carlton use $50,000 dumble amps with a Klon pedal.

 

Gary Moore on "Still got the blues" used a Marsall and a Gov'nor pedal.

 

 

So I share this just to help you out if you are/were like me on a tone quest. I felt guilty using a $125 OD pedal in front of a semi-dirty $3000 amp. But it is how it's done. And the beauty is that pedals COLOR the tone of the amp slightly but don't destroy the uniqueness of the amp! Want a different tonal color pallet, it is relatively inexpensive to try a different pedal!!!!

 

Try it and Good luck!

[yoslate]

I have heard several times (even here) about the classic line "I'm guitar straight into amp type of guy".

 

Well, personally (unless you are just going for straight clean tone) I don't know of any professional/gigging artist REALLY does this. They use OD or boost pedals, either with a clean or overdriven/distorted amp to get their tone. The pedal and the amp have a synergistic effect to achieve their tone.

 

I have for a long time looked for an amp where all I needed was a guitar cord and 'crank her up' to get the thick but articulate overdrive tone I wanted. Yet I would always have to bring a OD pedal set gain a 9 0'clock (just barely on) and the level at about noon and tone to taste. BINGO that muddy wall of sound is controlled and heavenly.

 

Kenny, at PSP2 IMHO had the best tone of the night. He was using an OD pedal to goose his TWEED amp. Again, I would have thought this to be sacrilege, but it is the secret of the tone masters.

 

Robben Ford & Larry Carlton use $50,000 dumble amps with a Klon pedal.

 

Gary Moore on "Still got the blues" used a Marsall and a Gov'nor pedal.

 

 

So I share this just to help you out if you are/were like me on a tone quest. I felt guilty using a $125 OD pedal in front of a semi-dirty $3000 amp. But it is how it's done. And the beauty is that pedals COLOR the tone of the amp slightly but don't destroy the uniqueness of the amp! Want a different tonal color pallet, it is relatively inexpensive to try a different pedal!!!!

 

Try it and Good luck!

 

In my current modus operandi, I'm right with you, John, especially after last night (re: my gig report thread). An irony here is that I was inspired to tweak "The Note" (my really nice custom build EL34) with the thoughtful, judicious use of pedals by two things: The Carlton/Ford disc you burned for me (I've been doing my homework on their gear!), and I saw Lucinda Williams Friday night, with two guitarists who were wonderful players, both of whom had extensive pedal boards, which they used all of, all night, to GREAT effect! Her show was as good as anything I've heard...PERIOD! I was really inspired by what was coming out of my amp last night, and played a bit beyond myself. It was just great fun! Thanks, John!

[tbonesullivan]

there are no rules in the quest for good tone. Whether you are over biasing your 5881 tubes in your "bluesbreaker" marshall combo or running a tube screams into your expensive vintage marshall half stack, it's all fair. Look at Brian may: a lot of his great recorded stuff was made on the "Deacy system" amp that Queen bassist John Deacon threw together.

 

Also... it's hard to RUIN the tone of a good amp. all that an OD or DS pedal will do is add to that tone.

[Kuz]

there are no rules in the quest for good tone. Whether you are over biasing your 5881 tubes in your "bluesbreaker" marshall combo or running a tube screams into your expensive vintage marshall half stack, it's all fair. Look at Brian may: a lot of his great recorded stuff was made on the "Deacy system" amp that Queen bassist John Deacon threw together.

 

Also... it's hard to RUIN the tone of a good amp. all that an OD or DS pedal will do is add to that tone.

 

That was the part I didn't get for years. I was thinking I was ruining the tone putting a pedal in front of it. As you put. it only ADDS to the tone!

[shook494]

After years of going through the same thing........I couldn't agree with you more.

[Jazzpunk]

Congrats on the tone break through. Man it's a good feelin' to find the sound you've been striving for!

[TruckbodyJones]

I have heard several times (even here) about the classic line "I'm guitar straight into amp type of guy".

 

Well, personally (unless you are just going for straight clean tone) I don't know of any professional/gigging artist REALLY does this. They use OD or boost pedals, either with a clean or overdriven/distorted amp to get their tone. The pedal and the amp have a synergistic effect to achieve their tone.

 

I have for a long time looked for an amp where all I needed was a guitar cord and 'crank her up' to get the thick but articulate overdrive tone I wanted. Yet I would always have to bring a OD pedal set gain a 9 0'clock (just barely on) and the level at about noon and tone to taste. BINGO that muddy wall of sound is controlled and heavenly.

 

Kenny, at PSP2 IMHO had the best tone of the night. He was using an OD pedal to goose his TWEED amp. Again, I would have thought this to be sacrilege, but it is the secret of the tone masters.

 

Robben Ford & Larry Carlton use $50,000 dumble amps with a Klon pedal.

 

Gary Moore on "Still got the blues" used a Marsall and a Gov'nor pedal.

 

 

So I share this just to help you out if you are/were like me on a tone quest. I felt guilty using a $125 OD pedal in front of a semi-dirty $3000 amp. But it is how it's done. And the beauty is that pedals COLOR the tone of the amp slightly but don't destroy the uniqueness of the amp! Want a different tonal color pallet, it is relatively inexpensive to try a different pedal!!!!

 

Try it and Good luck!

I look at pedals like an artists paint brush's . Could I paint with one ...sure , but is is nice to have several to choose from . Although ....the P-90 in my 535 sure did sound good through my new Marshall Haze the other night ....no pedals. I have a board full if I need them though ......

[TruckbodyJones]

I look at pedals like an artists paint brush's . Could I paint with one ...sure , but is is nice to have several to choose from . Although ....the P-90 in my 535 sure did sound good through my new Marshall Haze the other night ....no pedals. I have a board full if I need them though ......

[SouthpawGuy]

I've always used something in the signal chain, even in the '80s I used a small frontline preamp with volume, bass and treble controls to set my "tone", that was with a Strat with active pickups. I sold all of my pedals and went multi-fx in the '90s along with everyone else.

 

In the last year I've been doing a lot of catching up with od / distortion/ boost pedals. I must have close to a dozen such pedals, and they vary from the subtle to the "in your face" variety. The only one I've used in the last month or so is an RC Booster by Xotic, which has a gain control with volume, bass and treble controls. So I've basically gone full circle and taken twenty + years to get there !

 

The RC is a great pedal, you can use it to set your basic tone and then just boost the clean tone, or use it as a very mild overdrive pedal. The amount of gain on hand is minimal, and I wouldn't really class it as an od pedal. I use it to boost the bass end at low volumes and set the treble and volume to taste. With absolutely no gain increase it does a great job of just "boosting" your basic tone, set the gain to 9 o'clock or so and it is fantastic, still clean but with a fat juicy edge to it. It makes the Seths in my Prospect sing, but it also sounds excellent with single coils on an ASAT, Legacy or Strat.

[smurph1]

I look at pedals like an artists paint brush's . Could I paint with one ...sure , but is is nice to have several to choose from . Although ....the P-90 in my 535 sure did sound good through my new Marshall Haze the other night ....no pedals. I have a board full if I need them though ......

+1 on that..It depends on what the song needs..The best tone set up I've had so far was a $600 Peavey Classic 50 2X12..Nice reverb on the clean channel, and sustain for days on the overdrive side.Wish I still had that amp, so I could tweak it a bit with some pedals!!

[GuitArtMan]

I've almost always (always?) had pedals. That said I think it's critically important to get a good sound from the amp/guitar and then use pedals to colotr the tone. They're the frosting on the cake so to speak.

[Kuz]

I've almost always (always?) had pedals. That said I think it's critically important to get a good sound from the amp/guitar and then use pedals to colotr the tone. They're the frosting on the cake so to speak.

 

Yes, thanks for clearing that up. The original signal (guitar to cord to amp) needs to be very close and then a little goose from the pedal to set the tone.

 

Another thing I forgot mention is that there is a great you tube video where David Grissom says that he just gets the amp to start breaking up and then adds the slightest amount of push (around 9 o'clock) from the pedal to drive the amp to tone heaven. If the amp is on full gain BEFORE hitting the OD pedal you will just get a bunch of mud.

 

OK, HERE YOU GO. WATCH THIS CLIP FOR 'HOW TO DO IT' TONE ENTHUSIAST!

 

[rjsanders]

if it's an outdoor gig i may very likely not use a pedal (Heritage & Chapin guitars, Juke or Heritage amps). indoors, 'specially small clubs i use a PaulC Tim or Timmy for clean boost (& they don't - to me anyway) color the sound at all. i may add a Tim or Timmy for extra gain or a JTK Alchemy or Delirium for extra crunch & gain.

 

problem for me is finding the same sound on guitars with the guitar volume turned down (lost highs), so i usually run flat out on the guitar and use right hand or pedals for soloing or whatever...

 

then there's the jam where a 50wt Two Rock wants to pound everyone. my Jukes or 22w Heritage Victory will come through w/the pedals mentioned

 

[big bob]

what's the difference between an OD and a distortion?

[JeffB]

Ive always used pedals. Didnt know there was anything wrong with it till I found the internet. Glad Im not a purist.

 

I use od and dist to just nudge the signal and also to act as another channel for my amp.

[rjsanders]

what's the difference between an OD and a distortion?

 

way i see it is overdrive boosts the input signal (gain), distortion mimics clipping (output); they may do it similarly, depending on the pedal design, but you usually wouldn't use a distortion pedal for louder cleans with richer harmonics. some clean boosts get into OD territory and some ODs into distortion/fuzz.

 

to me (limited experience/knowledge) distortion and fuzz are pretty much synonymous. tube screamers and other medium-gain OD pedals affect compression characteristics of the sound, too. dist & fuzz pedals compress almost immediately. depends on the sound you want, what you get...for fuzz i use a BJF Pink Purple Fuzz. to my ear after a certain amount of OD or distortion i can't tell the diff between a Heritage guitar into a nice Heritage amp and in import strat into a cheap-@$$ <insert least favorite amp here>

 

[jacques]

You are right Kuz.

What I do find of the utmost importance with any distortion pedal: does it respond to my fingers?

Those heavy screamers that leave no control after you pushed the button are the ones to avoid. I am a great fan of the Fulldrive by Fulltone. When you play gently, it responds like that and if you push a little harder you get the distortion (which in my ears should always remind me of the sweetness of a violin) - all without touching any dials. The same goes for a good amp.

[FredZepp]

I can agree to a large extent. I had a Supro 6L6 tube head once , that sounded ok without boost, but put a boost (LPB2 at the time) in front and tonal nirvana. Every Fender that I have owned woke up with a drive in front. Huge difference.

But my old Dean Markley amps don't benefit really. They are weird in that they have a Master, Gain, and a "Drive" adjustment. And the "Drive" really seems to work like an overdrive in front. The guy that owned one before me said that it was the only amp he every toured with that he didn't use any pedals.

I just got a pedal called "Blood Drive" that is really nice. It's shaped like a coffin and has a skull on it , so players expect the wrong thing. It doesn't really do metal! It's just a really nice overdrive. Excellent classic rock tone (read the reviews) I haven't tried it through my old Vibro Champ, but I think that it will do good things for that one.

[rjsanders]

friend of mine who's IMHO a world-class player loves to tell how great Joe Pass youtube sounds with

. it's not often i disagree w/Tim, but i gotta say that doesn't near as good to me as anything he did with an archtop. and i can sure tell the difference, even through computer speakers

 

so, i guess for me it's the guitar before the amp...

 

[iim7v7im7]

To some extent it's a matter of marketing, and a matter of extent of the extent and type of clipping. Boosts, overdrives, distortion, fuzz are all trying to get you to genrate a clipped wave form. Many of us you use single channel tube amps to play clean and distorted tones use these types of pedals.

 

Boosts create a hotter input signal and sometimes an EQ that can cause the preamp or power amp to clip and or shift the tonal colration. Shifts in EQ definitely shape the nature of the clippping and the sound. Clean boosts typically have less EQ and fat boosts have more.

 

Overdrives do the same thing as boosts when set low. As you turn them up, they provide a clipped signal to the amp. An amplified, EQ'd clipped signal inputted into a tube amp causes the amp to further clip creating the sounds that we love. To some extent the ability to go from clean to overdriven when set on a single setting and the extent of clipping and the EQ flavoring are what differentiates these pedals.

 

Distortion pedals and Fuzz pedals just plain clip more. They do all of the same as above, but typically even when set low, clip the signal. Their clipping tries to sometimes simulate speaker distortion as well (fuzz).

 

So these are marketing terms to describe a device aimed at clipping. This is also why the player's feel, type of instrument, pickups, amplifier, volume setting, headroom and speaker all interact to create a sound. This is why some folks love a pedal and others hate the same one in my view. I cannot underestimate the player in this chain. Great players will always sound good.

 

Regarding Kuz's original question....

 

I too enjoy the use of pedals to boost my signal, add tonal color, change the EQ and provide a degree of input clipping to my amp. What is important to me is that my amp be set quite loud, at or just below the point where I am running out of headroom. This is why I like lower wattage amps. This level of volume is too loud for home and small club levels of volume, so I use an attenuator between the amp output and the speaker (story for another thread). It is also important that a pedal respond to my pick attack, so I use boosts and ODs to accomplish this.

 

I do think you can play without pedal's without a $50,000 Dumble amp. You can find a two channel, master volume amp that you like the sound of. You can play with two different amps; one for clean and one for overdrive. Or you can take an amp who's clean tone you like and louder overdriven tones you like and utilize the afformentioned pedals to help your amp create the different tones that you seek. We live in a world where there are more great pedals available than ever before. They are just tools, why not use them? Dumble guys use them as well. With luggage shippment charges and extra security they can't justify shipping their rigs. They just ask the promoter to gat a "Twin" and they take along a pedal (e.g. Robben Ford uses a Hermida Zendrive).

 

Myself, I have found a number of pedals that are dynamic and allow my amp to remain reactive and expressive (despite my poor playing!). So I use them and recommend them.

My $.02

 

Bob

 

 

 

way i see it is overdrive boosts the input signal (gain), distortion mimics clipping (output); they may do it similarly, depending on the pedal design, but you usually wouldn't use a distortion pedal for louder cleans with richer harmonics. some clean boosts get into OD territory and some ODs into distortion/fuzz.

 

to me (limited experience/knowledge) distortion and fuzz are pretty much synonymous. tube screamers and other medium-gain OD pedals affect compression characteristics of the sound, too. dist & fuzz pedals compress almost immediately. depends on the sound you want, what you get...for fuzz i use a BJF Pink Purple Fuzz. to my ear after a certain amount of OD or distortion i can't tell the diff between a Heritage guitar into a nice Heritage amp and in import strat into a cheap-@$$ <insert least favorite amp here>

 

[FredZepp]

That was a nice read , Bob (iim7v7im7).... and the "single channel " comment really makes alot of sense. (I have a couple single channel amps, but not what I normally use) There's lots of great pedals out there now.. .. you reminded me of the ones that were marketed as "square-wave" and "sawtooth-wave", though I think that it's a bit more complicated than that in reality . A thought provoking read..

There are so many aural dimensions that affect which combination is "the tone" to any individual ear...

[rjsanders]

big + on marketing and other comments.

 

i see the tonequest just like the OP. in my case i was looking for favorite colors + my guitar's sound boosted & uncolored.

 

i got a chance to hang out w/Brian Mena and Bill Chapin @ NAMM Winter 2003* for a couple days & it was quite the education. at the time i was gigging small clubs with a Juke 1210, which has a beautiful sound with my Millie DC and different Chapins. so, i used Brian's Red Snapper for clean boost and additional crunch & Workingman's Blues for an Allmans screaming Plexi sound (we did a lot of Allman covers at the time). Bill dealt Brian's pedals, so a lot of fellow Chapinistas got different ones and traded & shared & stuff. i don't see some old favorites on Brian's site now, but some included King of the Britains [sic] (Marshall), Howie (Dumble), Kar Krash (Trainwreck), Dirty Blonde (blonde Fenders of early '60's), Top Boost in a Can (AC-30), etc.

 

each of these was a PTP-wired job that did realistic amp simulations. like having a whole different amp. boost, OD, and distortion varied by pedal.

 

 

* met Jim Deurloo and asked him details about the HRW pickup. Nice fella. who'd guess he could be so intimidating on that subject

[Kuz]

I can agree to a large extent. I had a Supro 6L6 tube head once , that sounded ok without boost, but put a boost (LPB2 at the time) in front and tonal nirvana. Every Fender that I have owned woke up with a drive in front. Huge difference.

But my old Dean Markley amps don't benefit really. They are weird in that they have a Master, Gain, and a "Drive" adjustment. And the "Drive" really seems to work like an overdrive in front. The guy that owned one before me said that it was the only amp he every toured with that he didn't use any pedals.

I just got a pedal called "Blood Drive" that is really nice. It's shaped like a coffin and has a skull on it , so players expect the wrong thing. It doesn't really do metal! It's just a really nice overdrive. Excellent classic rock tone (read the reviews) I haven't tried it through my old Vibro Champ, but I think that it will do good things for that one.

 

I agree that with a master volume & gain knobs, that goosing them with an OD pedal doesn't work as well.

 

My Bogner Shiva just doesn't seem to have any good response to any OD pedal on the dirty channel.

 

But that is the ONLY amp I have ever encountered this situation with. It is kind of a bummer in that unless I use my OD pedals on the clean channel, I am stuck with ONLY using the amps own gain for over driven/distortion tone. Thankfully the dirty channel on the Bogner Shiva sounds good.

[SouthpawGuy]

I agree that with a master volume & gain knobs, that goosing them with an OD pedal doesn't work as well.

 

My Bogner Shiva just doesn't seem to have any good response to any OD pedal on the dirty channel.

 

But that is the ONLY amp I have ever encountered this situation with. It is kind of a bummer in that unless I use my OD pedals on the clean channel, I am stuck with ONLY using the amps own gain for over driven/distortion tone. Thankfully the dirty channel on the Bogner Shiva sounds good.

 

Have you tried a Paul C Tim pedal ?

 

It seems to work well with most pedals and amps. I can use it with other pedals before or after it and with a variety of amps and it's difficult to get a bad sound out if it.

[rjsanders]

Have you tried a Paul C Tim pedal ?

 

It seems to work well with most pedals and amps. I can use it with other pedals before or after it and with a variety of amps and it's difficult to get a bad sound out if it.

 

 

i agree, but Paul seems to recommend against it for BF Fenders. (i like it, tho, w/my old ('64) Showman)